19 replies to this topic

[WreckWench]

So lately I've been discussing horseshoe vs donut wing styles and still have more questions than answers.

I'm looking to understand the following:

1. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each? Please such factors as include relative cost, availability, size/dims, ease of dumping air in horizontal, inverted and vertical positions, etc.

2. I hear that donuts are quite popular and the 'greatest thing in wing technology' if so why?

3. Would you recommend one style for a particular application or style of diving?

For example I am predominately a recreational diver who dives 80cu alum tanks in warm water someplace. So would one wing be superior for that application as compared to when I dive NC for example and use a 95/100cu steel tank?

4. Is one style easier to dump air? Have more places to dump air etc? (Yes this is a repeat of part of number one but I hear that the donut is easier to dump air so I want to understand under what circumstances and how it is easier at what tradeoffs/cost?

Thank you for your participation in this thread. As many of you know SD is a dealer for Deep Sea Supply and several of our corporate partners include OMS and DiveRite. So this discussion is mostly a generic discussion as to one style over another.

[ScubaDadMiami]

I'd be very happy to write up a full review of all of them just as soon as our corporate sponsors send me one of each for my exhaustive (will last several years before getting the tester wings back ) trials.

[Scubatooth]

WW good thread i had been wondering the same thing myself as im going to be buying a wing or two in the next 2 months.

SDM.... so does that mean you would be going open circuit for the testing? if not i let you take care of the CCR and i will be glad to take care of the open cicuit

[WreckWench]

I'd be very happy to write up a full review of all of them just as soon as our corporate sponsors send me one of each for my exhaustive (will last several years before getting the tester wings back ) trials.

Hee! Hee! I'm afraid that the tester models have already been allocated...er I mean they WILL be allocated on the outside chance we get one!

However I expect that almost all of you went thru similar questions when you were trying to buy your first wing. So I'm sure you all have an opinion or three!

[PerroneFord]

Been awhile, so I'll give this one a go.

I have 3 donut wings, and one horseshoe wing (Halcyon Pioneer 27, Halcyon Evolve 60, DSS Torus 45, Dive Rite Classic).

1. The one advantage I can think of with the horseshoe is that it DOES allow you to trap more gas on one side of the wing to balance carrying several bottles on that side. Other than that, the dount appears to be superior in every way I can think of. The donut wings are slightly more expensive at this time, they allow you to dump gas pretty effectively in nearly any position, they are available in any size a diver should need, and they are increasigly popular.

2. The shape of the donut wing allows it to have lift at the bottom of the wing. This is advantageous for those who wear weightbelts because it prevents the weightbelt from dragging down the hips. For those who do not wear a weightbelt, you can select a donut wing shape that has minimal lift at the bottom of the wing (Halcyon type shapes) that allow you to trim out easily in either single or double tanks.

3. I would recommend you examine the shape of any wing you intend to purchase, understand the center of buoyancy characteristics of that wing, and purchase something appropriate to your needs. If you dive an Al80 tank, and wear no weight belt, don't buy a wing with a wide bottom and a lot of lift down there. You'll be on your head by the end of the dive.

You also need to purchase a wing of the proper lift capacity for your diving. If you are diving an AL63 in tropical waters, something with 20# of lift might be sufficient. If you are diving a drysuit with a steel 104 in the PNW or off NJ, then your wing needs will be different.

4. Yes, the donut shape is easier to dump air in any concievable scenario. There are no tradeoffs.

So lately I've been discussing horseshoe vs donut wing styles and still have more questions than answers.

I'm looking to understand the following:

1. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each? Please such factors as include relative cost, availability, size/dims, ease of dumping air in horizontal, inverted and vertical positions, etc.

2. I hear that donuts are quite popular and the 'greatest thing in wing technology' if so why?

3. Would you recommend one style for a particular application or style of diving?

For example I am predominately a recreational diver who dives 80cu alum tanks in warm water someplace. So would one wing be superior for that application as compared to when I dive NC for example and use a 95/100cu steel tank?

4. Is one style easier to dump air? Have more places to dump air etc? (Yes this is a repeat of part of number one but I hear that the donut is easier to dump air so I want to understand under what circumstances and how it is easier at what tradeoffs/cost?

Thank you for your participation in this thread. As many of you know SD is a dealer for Deep Sea Supply and several of our corporate partners include OMS and DiveRite. So this discussion is mostly a generic discussion as to one style over another.

[ScubaDadMiami]

The one negative I have heard about the doughnut wings is that they can get pinched in boat tank racks, causing a hole in the bottom. However, I sure would like to try one though especially if it can be narrower where most horseshoe wings flare at the bottom. With CCR, the valves are at the bottom of the tanks (for most models), and I want to keep this area as free as possible.

[PerroneFord]

The one negative I have heard about the doughnut wings is that they can get pinched in boat tank racks, causing a hole in the bottom. However, I sure would like to try one though especially if it can be narrower where most horseshoe wings flare at the bottom. With CCR, the valves are at the bottom of the tanks (for most models), and I want to keep this area as free as possible.

The problem with CCR, is that many tend to be butt heavy, so you really DO need the lift down there. Whereas a horseshoe shape MUST flare at the bottom to provide addtional lift, the donut wing can in fact still be narrower and provide similar lift.

In terms of getting pinched, some donut wings tend to be very long. My Evolve is a very long wing for its size as is my Pioneer. My Torus 45 is relatively short for it's size but is rather wide, especially at the bottom.

This is why there are SO many wing shapes on the market.

SDM, I was at EE Saturday and checked out the new Halcyon rebreather wing. Looks really nice. It's nearly a delta shape. Might not work for you, but will probably make some CCR guys happy.

[annasea]

The one negative I have heard about the doughnut wings is that they can get pinched in boat tank racks, causing a hole in the bottom. However, I sure would like to try one though especially if it can be narrower where most horseshoe wings flare at the bottom. With CCR, the valves are at the bottom of the tanks (for most models), and I want to keep this area as free as possible.

Yikes! How often does this pinching business happen? When it does happen, is it the fault of the diver for not being careful enough in placing their gear? Or strictly accidental? (One more thing to worry about... )

My understanding from my readings elsewhere and my conversation with Patrick is that the OxyCheq Mach V is more narrow than other 30# donut wings. With a single tank, you've got about 2 1/2" of wing hanging over each side. I haven't seen other donut wings so I don't know how accurate this is. If you're available in June, you're more than welcome to try out my wing, Howard.

[ScubaDadMiami]

I came very close to buying a different wing for my Optima. However, since it was a new item on the market (back when I bought it), I did not want to experiment with using something other than what the manufacturer suggested.

I am quite pleased with my Rec Wing, and considering how much weight I carry on it, I can't see getting one with less lift. However, I would like to see how a doughnut with a narrow bottom would work on it just to see if it gives me more room to get to my valves while still providing about the same amount of lift overall. It's not like they are blocked now, however, more room would be even better.

Honestly, I don't really need so much lift on the bottom like most other CCRs. The Optima seems to trim out really well, and it doesn't take any effort for me to maintain trim. In fact, I have my Rec Wing set with the bottom tightened in close. However, I like the idea of having the ability to pump up the wing if I need the extra lift.

Wings, like fins, can become a very personal thing, and what works for one will not work for another. So, without trying a bunch of them to find the perfect match, it can sometimes involve a little guess work. At least it is good to have lots of choices. I prefer to be overwhelmed with choices instead of being forced to choose between a very few poorer options.

[drbill]

I refuse to dive any of my horseshoes... only dive one of my four donuts. They taste much better.

Seriously, in my experience for my style (well, kind of) diving, the donut is the only thing that works well for me. It does not trap air like my horseshoe, and allows me to easily evacuate the wing when I have to plant myself on the bottom to film. I do a lot of "bobbing" (swimming from point-to-point and dropping down at each point to film) so I evacuate and fill my (air) bladder more frequently than other divers might. If you are just trying to stay horizontal midwater, the hjorseshoe may be fine for you.

PS- Man, I'm getting nothing but errors when I try to post or click on a thread.

NOTE: I dive a single tank (HP120) so there's a good chance I'll have to switch to one of my higher lift horseshoes when I use doubles.

Edited by drbill, 06 February 2007 - 09:34 AM.

[PerroneFord]

SDM, stop scaring Annasea. Annasea, stop worrying so doggone much. The likliehood of you pinching a wing in a tank rack is about zero. Just pay attention to how you put your gear down. It's no big deal at all. Howard associates with people who do more diving in a year, than most do in a lifetime...

[ScubaDadMiami]

Howard associates with people who . . .

are pretty destructive when it comes to gear.

[captsteve]

donut wings get my vote.

[annasea]

SDM, stop scaring Annasea. Annasea, stop worrying so doggone much. The likliehood of you pinching a wing in a tank rack is about zero. Just pay attention to how you put your gear down. It's no big deal at all. Howard associates with people who do more diving in a year, than most do in a lifetime...

Thank you for the clarification, Perrone. I'll be sure to forward the repair bill appropriately.

[netmage]

SDM, stop scaring Annasea. Annasea, stop worrying so doggone much. The likliehood of you pinching a wing in a tank rack is about zero. Just pay attention to how you put your gear down. It's no big deal at all. Howard associates with people who do more diving in a year, than most do in a lifetime...

Thank you for the clarification, Perrone. I'll be sure to forward the repair bill appropriately.

For my singles wings, I have two doughnut wings... An older oxycheq and halcyon pioneer..., I dive quite a bit.., The oxycheq did get a puncture.., but not on the boat.., from an umbrella in my truck..., speared it clean through. A little aquaseal and its good as new... On the pioneer I cracked the nut that holds down the inflator elbow, still tying to figure out how to repair, just hasn't been a priority since I have the backup...

For my doubles wings, I have two horseshoes... a Halcyon 40 which I've never used..., and a DR Classic which gets abused constantly, thrown around the truck, and scraping through wrecks. On some dives, I have to use a little "english" and tilt to manage the bubble if it accidently gets to one side or another.

I could see the situation Howard is talking about happen for people w/ a single doughnut wing and very short tanks, like the HP80's or AL63's (or whatever they are). I don't have an issue at all w/ my HP100's or AL80's...

-Tim