15 replies to this topic

[captsteve]

Thinking about a new scooter. I really liked the cheap piece of junk I owned, but it wasnt built to survive me. I am looking for somthing that i can use to dig with, or use for recon, and I need 2.5+ mph so I can fight the current. I preffer somthing about 1lb negative.
Before I unload some $$$$$, I would like some feedback.

[PerroneFord]

Do you have any idea how much a 2.5mph scooter is going to cost? Or how often it will need to be serviced?

I know the Silent Submersion scooter is not that fast. I've seen Gavins that were that fast (custom built) and the AquaZepp is that fast but you'll have to import one from Germany. It's also about 140 pounds if I remember correctly.

Plan on dropping anywhere between $6k-$10k.

[MNJoe]

While I myself really don't know much about them, I do know that there are a couple of serious cavers in my area. They use the X-Scooter, not sure if it is what you are looking for, but here is the link:

X-Scooter

[ScubaDadMiami]

I have a scooter, and I have been using scooters for about two years or three. Mine is the Dive Rite Arrow, which is no longer sold by Dive Rite. The actual manufacturer is Farllon. They have been in the business longer than almost anyone, and they are one of the companies that supplies scooters to the military. They are heavy and they are loud. You will never have to worry about getting parts or repairs for them. They are made out of metal. They are about as fast as a Gavin. (I have compared mine side by side with a Gavin.)

Gavins are used by a lot of tech divers. They are quite reliable, and they have an almost cult like following. They are also heavy. They are basically built (and pretty much serviced) by one person on the planet. Nobody knows what will happen in the future to such an operation, which is why I did not buy one. Made out of various "incarnations" of plastic.

Silent Submersion scooters. Probably one of the fastet (other than the huge Aqua Zepps). I think that they are a superior machine to the Gavins. Also made out of plastic. They tend to be much more expensive than the Gavin though. I don't know enough about their operation to comment.

X-Scooters. A newer arrival to the market, and the jury is still out on this one. Some people love them; some people think that they do not have good enough quality in their construction. They are the least heavy by far compared to any other out there. Some people say that they do not have enough power, and other people dispute this. A buddy of mine has one, and we went scootering last weekend. The problem is that he was on open circuit, and he had to get out of the water so fast that we didn't get to drag race or make true comparisons. Some people have complained about less than robust parts used on them, and others have mentioned that they are getting screws and other parts that are rusting.

Aqua Zepps. Fastest. Heaviest. Biggest. You actually ride on one of these compared to getting towed by the others. Not sure if they are still being manufactured. I really don't know much about these.

[PerroneFord]

The Silents an the Gavins are similarly priced. I just checked. I spoke to someone who has used all three in cave situations. He is the top DR dealer in the US. His opinion, the Gavin's break a LOT. The X scooters are not up to exploration spec, and he has chosen to carry Silents.

The AquaZepp is still being produced to my knowledge. I looked at them last year. We have some Farralons at the shop, and a couple Gavins from when Bill actually bult them. I haven't used it yet. Maybe this fall.

As for the speed, the Silents are the fastest but still won't make 2.5mph. George did build some custom Gavins that were 2.5mph, but they were one off jobs and essentially use and toss.

I note that SDM mentions that the other scooters are "plastic". I think this is someone ingenuine. They do have bodies made of a particular plastic, but those "platic" scooters are being used around the world for most of the cave and wreck exploration going on, including the Akumal project, the Ressel project, the WKPP, the EKPP, and others. They went to the Britannic, and if I remember correctly were on the yamashiro project, though I could be mistaken on that one.

They are depth rated to 450ft, and that's more than enough for anything I have planned!

[ScubaDadMiami]

Hey, I didn't "judge" plastic. I just mentioned it. A lot of dive computers and other equipment have a great deal of plastic in them, and they work just fine. My CCR's most critical component, its scrubber canister, is made from "plastic," and I entrust my life to it on every dive.

[ncdiver43]

you might look at Apollo scooters.. Ive used a good friend of mine several times. It has a vari pitch prop. Its both fast an has about a 90 min run time.. I cant remember the depth rating, Ive had it to 150 an had no probs at all..this one is in the $2000 range..scooters are a blast!
BTW.. I have a sea doo scooter.. compared to this apollo its junk

[PerroneFord]

Steve,

You may wish to reference the following:

http://www.divernet....extra.shtml#top

http://www.silent-su...ices/Prices.htm

http://www.gavinscoo...com/pricing.htm

(the Gavin page lists scooter speed at ~200fpm, which is about 2.2 mph)

Good luck.

[PerroneFord]

I have not used the Apollo, and don't know anyone who does. I would not be suitable for my diving with max depth of 165ft, and a max run time of 1hr according to the webpage:

http://www.nauticaln...a/scooters2.htm

ScubaToys sells them:

http://www.scubatoys...Acc_scooter.asp

From the specs, it's negative in the water. That would be a BIG no no in the ocean. It's also not a tow behind model so if you lose your grip, it's gone.

[captsteve]

Thanks perrone....those links were very helpful.

[captsteve]

Ok... I found a good mk2 Farallon. there are some good and not so good qualities, but the price is right! In good condition.

[PerroneFord]

The Farralon is tough, but slow compared to more modern units like the SS and the Gavin.

[captsteve]

The Farralon is tough, but slow compared to more modern units like the SS and the Gavin.

Yeah....I looked at those. alot of it has to do with the motor and the prop. The gavins use a ge motor that has been slightly modified in the windings. If I read it right, there is one guy who fixes all of those. It all comes down to $$$ and application.
Thanks for the links, they helped alot..

[VADiver]

I have a Gavin short body and love it. It weighs in at 65lbs (or so) and is bullet proof as the guys at WKPP can tell you. They are also simple to work on. When I tested her out she ran about 175' minute which is quick enough. It has lead acid batteries which draw down gradually when they drain, not shut off like the X-scooter. I don't think there is much difference detween the Gavin and the SS, but Rodney (SS) treats the setup as a business moreso than George (from what I hear). though the Gavin is heavier I have not had any problems getting it up on the boat after a dive and it stows easily onboard.

The X-scooter is nice too, but not tested in cave exploration--they don't have the track record the Gavin or SS has. Most of my buddies in Va dive the X- for open water wreck dives and love it. It's a great little scooter (35lbs) with nice features.

But I still love my Gavin.

Oh, if you ever make it up to Rawlings let me know and I'll bring my Gavin down (and maybe an X- if I can) so you can try them out.

Edited by VADiver, 01 September 2006 - 06:37 PM.

[captsteve]

I have a Gavin short body and love it. It weighs in at 65lbs (or so) and is bullet proof as the guys at WKPP can tell you. They are also simple to work on. When I tested her out she ran about 175' minute which is quick enough. It has lead acid batteries which draw down gradually when they drain, not shut off like the X-scooter. I don't think there is much difference detween the Gavin and the SS, but Rodney (SS) treats the setup as a business moreso than George (from what I hear). though the Gavin is heavier I have not had any problems getting it up on the boat after a dive and it stows easily onboard.

The X-scooter is nice too, but not tested in cave exploration--they don't have the track record the Gavin or SS has. Most of my buddies in Va dive the X- for open water wreck dives and love it. It's a great little scooter (35lbs) with nice features.

But I still love my Gavin.

Oh, if you ever make it up to Rawlings let me know and I'll bring my Gavin down (and maybe an X- if I can) so you can try them out.

Thanks! The Gavins are thought highly of....I would love to try one sometime. AS I actually considered building my own scooter at one point, I researched the gavins. It seems that george puts a huge effort into the dependability and success of his scooters.
I am interested in thepower source of the Gavins. the reason being that i would prefer to use a set of sealed batteries in my farallon instead of standard lead acid batteries. the aluminum housing, while very durable is suceptable to the acid.........