For my "technical"* dive set up, I did not choose a dual bladder. A lot of divers I know in the PNW do dive with dual bladders. And not just any old dual bladders, but dual bungeed 100lb wings!! For me and my technical diving philosophy, I like a clean simple set-up where every piece of gear has a purpose and has been thought out in detail.
I am curious what some of you think about dual/redundant bladders? When, why, where? Would a good argument for a dual wing be the wetsuit diver in doubles?
* Please be reminded I am using the term technical to discuss my doubles set-up where my style of diving exceeds most recreational limits and training.
Dual Bladders
Started by
Dive_Girl
, Jul 25 2006 07:29 PM
17 replies to this topic
#1
Dive_Girl
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Posted 25 July 2006 - 07:29 PM
It's Winter time - you know you're a diver when you're scraping ice off your windshield INSIDE your vehicle...!
Once in a while, it is good to step back, take a breath, and remember to be humble. You'll never know it all - ScubaDadMiami. If you aren't afraid of dying, there is nothing you can't achieve - Lao-tzu. One dog barks at something, the rest bark at him - Chinese Proverb.
Once in a while, it is good to step back, take a breath, and remember to be humble. You'll never know it all - ScubaDadMiami. If you aren't afraid of dying, there is nothing you can't achieve - Lao-tzu. One dog barks at something, the rest bark at him - Chinese Proverb.
#2
ScubaDadMiami
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Posted 25 July 2006 - 07:35 PM
I really don't know why people have a problem with the dual bladders. I am not diving one presently, however, I had one (still have it for sale if anyone interested) that I dove for years without incident.
What they need to invent is a streamlined dual or split corrugated hose system to go to the inflator so that the hoses for inflation are not such a bulking mess. That would move me back into carrying one again.
Right now, I always dive dry, and I have lift bags. So, I don't have one.
What they need to invent is a streamlined dual or split corrugated hose system to go to the inflator so that the hoses for inflation are not such a bulking mess. That would move me back into carrying one again.
Right now, I always dive dry, and I have lift bags. So, I don't have one.
"The most important thing is not to stop questioning." Albert Einstein
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#3
PerroneFord
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Posted 25 July 2006 - 07:53 PM
My IANTD instructor sells them and advocates them for use when diving wet with steel tanks. Of course the DIR answer is not to use them.
Though it may appear DIR on the surface, my thinking with ANYTHING regarding technical gear is this: What problem does it solve?
The dual bladder's primary reason for existing seems to be to provide redundant lift in the event of primary wing failure. Fair enough. How do we get to that scenario?
1. We are diving with gear that is too negative.
2. We are diving without other means of lift.
3. We are diving in an environment with a bottom we are unable or unqualified to reach.
How else could we sort out this issue?
1. We could be less negative in the water. For me, that means diving my AL80s when diving wet.
2. We could use alternate means of lift including lift bags, SMBs, or a drysuit, or some combination. Or we could carry two wings.
3. We could be sure to have gear and training to go to the bottom if necessary, or if the bottom is out of reach, have alternate means of reaching the surface.
In looking at the basic technical dive, really it comes down to not being significantly negative without alternate lift. For most, that is the drysuit. It could also be a liftbag. To be quite honest, I'd MUCH rather put some gas in my suit, or shoot a bag, than have to deal with a second bladder.
I've read enough issues with leaking inflators to make me VERY wary of keeping the second bladder connected. It just seems like an awful complication (and expense) to solve a problem that can be cleanly handled with other means.
Obviously to each his own.
Though it may appear DIR on the surface, my thinking with ANYTHING regarding technical gear is this: What problem does it solve?
The dual bladder's primary reason for existing seems to be to provide redundant lift in the event of primary wing failure. Fair enough. How do we get to that scenario?
1. We are diving with gear that is too negative.
2. We are diving without other means of lift.
3. We are diving in an environment with a bottom we are unable or unqualified to reach.
How else could we sort out this issue?
1. We could be less negative in the water. For me, that means diving my AL80s when diving wet.
2. We could use alternate means of lift including lift bags, SMBs, or a drysuit, or some combination. Or we could carry two wings.
3. We could be sure to have gear and training to go to the bottom if necessary, or if the bottom is out of reach, have alternate means of reaching the surface.
In looking at the basic technical dive, really it comes down to not being significantly negative without alternate lift. For most, that is the drysuit. It could also be a liftbag. To be quite honest, I'd MUCH rather put some gas in my suit, or shoot a bag, than have to deal with a second bladder.
I've read enough issues with leaking inflators to make me VERY wary of keeping the second bladder connected. It just seems like an awful complication (and expense) to solve a problem that can be cleanly handled with other means.
Obviously to each his own.
#4
Diverbrian
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Posted 25 July 2006 - 08:33 PM
Part of the thought is that some of us (many of us who dive cold water which leads to more stress and gas consumption) do not own double 80's. I personally have don't want two tanks that want to swing to positive buoyancy as they empty either. I don't like carrying weight and don't wish to go back to doing it.
Having said that, I dive steel doubles and love them. I have a set of HP100's and a set E8-130's . They hold as much gas as I need to do the diving that I do up here. I dive them drysuited for the reasons that you mention. I get cold easily, so you would see me in the tropics in a drysuit
.
Lift bags may work, put I don't want to put my faith in that method if I don't have to. Shooting a lift bag is one of those deceptively easy procedures. It can also be easy to foul up if you have other issues going on.
But, the dual bladders add a failure point and tend to "busy up" a rig. A few of our divers used to dive dual bladder wings and have since blanked off the wing on the right and made them single tank wings after discovering too many hoses floating around on the rig.
Having said that, I dive steel doubles and love them. I have a set of HP100's and a set E8-130's . They hold as much gas as I need to do the diving that I do up here. I dive them drysuited for the reasons that you mention. I get cold easily, so you would see me in the tropics in a drysuit
.Lift bags may work, put I don't want to put my faith in that method if I don't have to. Shooting a lift bag is one of those deceptively easy procedures. It can also be easy to foul up if you have other issues going on.
But, the dual bladders add a failure point and tend to "busy up" a rig. A few of our divers used to dive dual bladder wings and have since blanked off the wing on the right and made them single tank wings after discovering too many hoses floating around on the rig.
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#5
6Gill
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Posted 25 July 2006 - 10:29 PM
But, the dual bladders add a failure point and tend to "busy up" a rig. A few of our divers used to dive dual bladder wings and have since blanked off the wing on the right and made them single tank wings after discovering too many hoses floating around on the rig.
Somethings look good on paper but as the above stament shows most tend to switch back.I don't feel they are neccery but if someone chooses to dive 'em who am I to say different.
#6
Dive_Girl
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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:14 AM
I don't ask my buddies to change their set-up, and I don't ask about it - which is why I was looking for some understanding here. I find when you ask about other diver's set-ups when yours is different, it is sometimes viewed as picking the other set-up apart and I like to avoid that.I don't feel they are neccery but if someone chooses to dive 'em who am I to say different.
It's Winter time - you know you're a diver when you're scraping ice off your windshield INSIDE your vehicle...!
Once in a while, it is good to step back, take a breath, and remember to be humble. You'll never know it all - ScubaDadMiami. If you aren't afraid of dying, there is nothing you can't achieve - Lao-tzu. One dog barks at something, the rest bark at him - Chinese Proverb.
Once in a while, it is good to step back, take a breath, and remember to be humble. You'll never know it all - ScubaDadMiami. If you aren't afraid of dying, there is nothing you can't achieve - Lao-tzu. One dog barks at something, the rest bark at him - Chinese Proverb.
#7
peterbj7
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Posted 26 July 2006 - 12:08 PM
I knew someone who dived the Blue Hole at Dahab in Egypt using a DiveRite Superwing. He got too close to the (very rough) wall at one popint and nicked one side of his wing, causing a leak in his primary bladder. He was diving a 7mm wetsuit. Having a dual bladder he switched to the other one and concluded his dive safely. I'm not sure what he would have done otherwise.
I occasionally use a Superwing here in Belize, and feel comforted by the knowledge that there is a second bladder in the event of a problem with the first. If I'm diving with a scooter, video housing and lamps I'm likely to be intrinsically negative, and I'd prefer not to have to jettison any of that expensive gear. I think dual bladder wings are useful when used in the right circumstances.
I occasionally use a Superwing here in Belize, and feel comforted by the knowledge that there is a second bladder in the event of a problem with the first. If I'm diving with a scooter, video housing and lamps I'm likely to be intrinsically negative, and I'd prefer not to have to jettison any of that expensive gear. I think dual bladder wings are useful when used in the right circumstances.
#8
drbill
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Posted 26 July 2006 - 12:19 PM
I could use a dual bladder set-up when I dive wet, although I am approaching my world record of 25 straight dives without peeing in my wetsuit!
Oh, you meant dual bladder wings. I dive with a 28# single bladder and have thought about a dual bladder or lift bag when I'm doing my really deep dives. So far I haven't used one, but it could be a life saver if I had trouble swimming up from 180 ft with my HP120, 19 and 30 cu ft ponies.
Oh, you meant dual bladder wings. I dive with a 28# single bladder and have thought about a dual bladder or lift bag when I'm doing my really deep dives. So far I haven't used one, but it could be a life saver if I had trouble swimming up from 180 ft with my HP120, 19 and 30 cu ft ponies.
#9
ddierolf
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Posted 26 July 2006 - 03:21 PM
I read the title of the post and thought this topic was a remedy for not having to pee so often!!!!! 
Which end is up?
#10
Dive_Girl
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Posted 26 July 2006 - 03:38 PM
OK OK
It's Winter time - you know you're a diver when you're scraping ice off your windshield INSIDE your vehicle...!
Once in a while, it is good to step back, take a breath, and remember to be humble. You'll never know it all - ScubaDadMiami. If you aren't afraid of dying, there is nothing you can't achieve - Lao-tzu. One dog barks at something, the rest bark at him - Chinese Proverb.
Once in a while, it is good to step back, take a breath, and remember to be humble. You'll never know it all - ScubaDadMiami. If you aren't afraid of dying, there is nothing you can't achieve - Lao-tzu. One dog barks at something, the rest bark at him - Chinese Proverb.
#11
Brinybay
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Posted 26 July 2006 - 09:55 PM
For my "technical"* dive set up, I did not choose a dual bladder. A lot of divers I know in the PNW do dive with dual bladders. And not just any old dual bladders, but dual bungeed 100lb wings!! For me and my technical diving philosophy, I like a clean simple set-up where every piece of gear has a purpose and has been thought out in detail.
I am curious what some of you think about dual/redundant bladders? When, why, where? Would a good argument for a dual wing be the wetsuit diver in doubles?
* Please be reminded I am using the term technical to discuss my doubles set-up where my style of diving exceeds most recreational limits and training.
Oh, for a second I thought the thread title was talking about selling body parts. I only have one bladder anyway, do girls have TWO?! I knew you were wierd creatures, but not that wierd! Hey, and if you do have two bladders, why in hell do you all spend so much friggin time in the bathroom?!!
Edited by Brinybay, 26 July 2006 - 09:58 PM.
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#12
Dive_Girl
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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:42 PM
The secret jacuzzi and floating bar...Hey, and if you do have two bladders, why in hell do you all spend so much friggin time in the bathroom?!!
It's Winter time - you know you're a diver when you're scraping ice off your windshield INSIDE your vehicle...!
Once in a while, it is good to step back, take a breath, and remember to be humble. You'll never know it all - ScubaDadMiami. If you aren't afraid of dying, there is nothing you can't achieve - Lao-tzu. One dog barks at something, the rest bark at him - Chinese Proverb.
Once in a while, it is good to step back, take a breath, and remember to be humble. You'll never know it all - ScubaDadMiami. If you aren't afraid of dying, there is nothing you can't achieve - Lao-tzu. One dog barks at something, the rest bark at him - Chinese Proverb.
#13
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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:47 PM
The secret jacuzzi and floating bar...Hey, and if you do have two bladders, why in hell do you all spend so much friggin time in the bathroom?!!
I like the sofas and the great smelling soaps shaped like shells....
#14
ddierolf
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Posted 27 July 2006 - 01:22 PM
I like all the cool vending machines they have in there!!!!!!!
Which end is up?
#15
texasdiverdude
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Posted 06 November 2006 - 01:44 PM
I have a Dive Rite Dual Rec (50 lb lift) and love it. I bought it for the diving wet with steel tanks scenario. It's small, but provides plenty of lift for doubles with 1 or 2 stages. I only use the one inflator and keep the other inflator clipped away along my right side. I use a longer corrugated hose on the unused inflator so I can quickly get to it, unclip it, and inflate it orally. I don't keep it connected since the inflator valve is the likeliest failure point. In a nutshell, it is there as a backup which, as some others correctly stated, could be handled differently. Regardless, of the method chosen, practice using it so it becomes second nature and make sure it works otherwise it is just extra equipment complicating your dive.
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