67 replies to this topic

[Dive_Girl]

Oh dear, I have opened a can of worms! It wasn't my intention in this thread to "bash" PADI, but to criticise some of their actions.

As cmt480 said, you didn't. I think some saw it as an opportunity to use this issue as yet another example of the big bad agency for a different agenda.

I do not photocopy PADI materials and I wasn't proposing that. It just seems unreasonable to me, and to others, that (say) a husband and a wife doing the same course can't use the same manual during their preparation.

I feel the same.

There are some school kids here that we are teaching to dive. They are very poor, and a single manual is costly for them. I'm giving them the course free, but they are paying the cash costs. Two of these kids are brother and sister, and PADI is now saying they MUST buy a manual each. To me that is totally unreasonable and driven purely by financial greed; it seems from this thread that many others agree with me.

I could be wrong in my recollection but in pursuing a school program I looked into the potential of having CDs made avialable for use by up to 4 students as the Cds I recall were originally designed. I would suggest you look into a waiver of the standard (which we know can at least be requested). Perhaps CDs are not the best way to go for some of your students with lack of computer access, but I would suggest attempting the waiver route. It's worth a shot.

I told PADI this before they introduced their new rule and they said (verbally) that they might be able to "do something". When I asked them in my recent meeting with their rep I was told, essentially, "tough cookies".

Call PADI directly and speak to somone else if your rep is not being helpful. If you go through PADI Americas, let me know and I will PM you some contact people I have had the pleasure of working with that have been helpful to our shop in the past.

I'm not knocking PADI "per se", but I sure have problems with how they behave. Hence my post and my present attitude.

Again, I don't believe your post was viewed as such.

[TraceMalin]

Every agency looks for the best most reputable people they can get to consult, designor implement programs and proper standards and procedures. Right now, at PDIC, we have 3 VERY well known tech divers working on technical standards and we're trying to get a 4th and the 4th is the next thing to divine.


~ Trace

[Dennis]

If I offended anyone's sensibilities in my post, I apologize.

[TraceMalin]

There is more to this whole thing than meets the first glance. So, permit me some liberty to put my spin on things here. I can't claim everything here to be a fact. However, I have my theories, and I think they are reasonable and make good sense.

Since I'm at the HQ training facility and not just a dive center, I can tell you with a fair amount of accuracy that PADI's main concern in implementing "proof of purchase" regarding materials involves the bottom line due to the pirating of materials in some countries. The further you get from North America, the more difficult it becomes to police copyright violations especially in Eastern Europe and Third World countries.

Every international agency, including PDIC, has been facing problems with those who are representing agencies in other countries. Everything from illegal copying, printing and distribution of materials to outright piracy in which someone tries to steal and claim ownership of an agency and not just a franchise or the right to use an agency's label happens periodically.

In facing this problem, PADI has decided to track the shipment of official PADI materials through a process that will require each student to have his or her own book and other methods will be implemented much the same way as in the prevention of counterfeit currency. However, policing your materials and implementing anti-theft measures costs money. So, who would be getting pinched over this? The dive professionals who are just trying to survive.

As for your legal theories, they sound really good. Just like the time my friend Matt & I wanted to steal our beach open/beach closed signs from the backs of our lifeguard towers to put in our rooms. We were trying to think of a way to procure those signs without getting into trouble. One day, someone had vandalized the sign in one of the towers so it would be reading "Beach Open" 24/7. I told Matt to go grab some screwdrivers. We couldn't allow our beach community association to be sued for proclaiming the beach was open all the time in the event of an accident. We proceeded to remove the all the signs from the towers and I wrote up a report that made us out to be great heroes in protecting the community association from possible lawsuit until new signs could be placed on the towers. We figured that the lack of a lifeguard and the hours in which lifeguards were on duty printed on the back of the chairs was enough. In the end, we were rewarded for going the extra mile and it made us look really good in the eyes of the association, but in reality we just had an excuse to procure those signs for our own purposes.

I know that PADI is trying to prevent theft, but if it can be done in such a way that sales are increased and it makes PADI's legal standpoint more solid, I'm sure that will be the spin.

~ Trace

[ereediver]

I bought the manuals for Open water and Advanced. In taking the class that just seemed par for the course. Now if my son takes the course, and the content has not changed it seems silly he would have to buy the same book unless the content changes, Maybe if they sold test packages. That may be cheeper and still give them their copywrite protection.

Just a thought. Now for world peace

[Dive_Girl]

Also, my log book says NAUI on it, so they want me to get a whole new one. When does this stop? I mean should it matter what agency is on there? My students will know I'm teaching PADI. I'm thinking of stitching a PADI logo onto it, so that it has both. Then neither agency can complain.

This must be spearheaded from your shop/CD as that is out of PADI's scope - keep your personal log book as is.

[ScubaDadMiami]

Then neither agency can complain.

Don't be so sure of that!