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The Fantasy Begins! Sept 2-9, 2006


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#121 kittydiverChris

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 10:29 AM

:wavey: :diver: :diver: to all that were involved in organizing the efforts of the trip. I think that booking thru SD was probably the wiser thing to do, but I was new to the SD group. There was a problem with my room assignment, but that all worked out in the end. No need for drama while on vacation!

I think there was a lack of communication / coordination / cooperation with the resort and SD. They were pissed that our group was using our own person to offer courses, well duh, they offer them and they lost money. I was happy to get my AOW, but think Vic had too much to handle by herself.

The first day really was the pits, we couldn't dive. And there were no activities scheduled. No meet and greet in the lobby. SD could have coordinated something with the screen names and the people themselves. All in all I think SD could have been more organized as to activities that they could schedule. It wasn't up to "just the resort" to accommodate the SD group. They were there to service everyone, not just our group. So the onnous is on SD for that one.

Fantasy Island had much to be desired, but, look at the value of what we paid. My airfare was the same cost as the week and the airline didn't even provide a meal. (which you always get sick from anyway). For a dive resort they had no hooks to hang any of your stuff from, the locker situation was the pits, and the tank situation was not good.

Food had much to be desired. I guess it was food, but for the most part it was dried out and they lacked in the vegetable and fruit department. It was same old same old everyday. 1.50 for a bottle of water. And the big bottles of bottled water was not set up anywhere for you to freely drink.

The dive operation was pretty good. But the fact that they didn't take us to any far sites the first 3-4 days until we started to complain was a big dissappoitment. I don't think any of us would have been upset with a farther boat ride and a longer day of diving. I certainly would not have been. I was there for the diving, not the drinking.

I think SD would be more successful to start their own singles week and have it be exclusive to the group, not the resort we choose to go to. By mid year, July, most people are ready for a vacation from work and it is in the beginning of hurricane season so the rates would not be too bad. Every year the group could choose to go to another place, instead of the same. It could be the "big" trip of the year that everyone looks forward to? What are your thoughts? I would certainly be interested in helping coordinate such efforts. Maybe the workload needs to be split up a bit.

Utila is a place on my list. (not that I have a list).

I had a lot of fun meeting people from the board, but would have liked meeting more people.

#122 ScubaPunk

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 12:46 PM

Scuba Punk, you're lucky they ran out of white wine before you got some, we had some with dinner and it was awful but the white over at BIBR for the pig roast much better.

I did get the wine with much persistence, they just needed to go and get it from the dinning room. The BIBR did have better wine, and better service. The wait staff actually smiled at you, one actually spoke to me and asked me if I was enjoying myself! The wait staff at Fantasy Island acted like we were an inconvenience.

'Boatlawyer' date='Sep 23 2006, 09:40 AM' post='156702'
The Fantasy Island value, FOR THE PRICE, was about right. I think I had one of the best rooms there, and I was very pleased.

Correct! The price was right. You get what you pay for.

'Boatlawyer' date='Sep 23 2006, 09:40 AM' post='156702'
Roatan is not exactly Vegas, but, as with most islands, there is plenty of rum. Alcohol consumption should be based on that availability, which was pointed out by WW early on in the trip. When travelling to less developed countries, there is always a tension between our "American" expectations and reality, and if our expectations were met everywhere in the world, it would just be one big Walmart Supercenter.

I don't remember WW saying there wouldn't be any wine. Just that we should buy at the duty free, if we want to avoid their high prices. They had a full bar with just about anything you could want. It's not that they didn't have the wine, they just didn't want to go and get it for me. Coffee at breakfast, wine at Happy Hour, analizing your own nitrox, it's not like I was asking for mints on my pillow or anything. My room was ok, (we could have used a wash cloth or two, a little stuffing in the pillows or maybe a blanket), but I was not expecting the American standards, eventhough they do call themselves a luxury resort on their website. Heck, I wasn't even expecting Holiday Inn standards. Just a smile once in a while from the wait staff, pretend like you're glad we're there..maybe? I think my expectations are pretty reasonable. I'm not so naive to think that things are going to be just like home. I thought the resort in Bonaire and Cozy were great. I appreciate the differences and embrace other cultures while visiting in their land. I also think it would serve themselves well to consider who their customers are and put forth just a little extra effort. My expectations are never met at Walmart either!

'Boatlawyer' date='Sep 23 2006, 09:40 AM' post='156702'
Health concerns are always an issue when travelling, especially in places like Central America. Simply because we're travelling on American passports does not immunize us from exercising common sense and due diligence.

Yep gotta be careful here. I didn't drink the water. I didn't get sick. I'm not sure if we have concluded that it was the water that made everyone sick. I'm just curious as to what it was. It may have been a different cause for different people. Maybe we can learn from it, if we can figure it out. Did everyone who got sick drink the water, eat the same thing....etc?

'Boatlawyer' date='Sep 23 2006, 09:40 AM' post='156702'
Some of the logistical problems were clearly caused by trying to balance SingleDivers.com promotional needs and the resort's understanding that SingleDivers.com was merely another sponsor. We paid the exact same price as every other diver there, and it is understandable that the resort would not want to offend it's Other Sponsors and guests by offering special perks to us. That is what I believe was behind the need to be "inclusive." Nothing wrong with being inclusive, but it probably goes a long way in explaining FI's unwillingness to provide happy hour facilities, or instructional facilities for NAUI courses at a PADI sponsored event.

I certainly did not expect any special treatment beyond what any other guest at the resort was receiving. I don't know that anyone else did either.

'Boatlawyer' date='Sep 23 2006, 09:40 AM' post='156702'
Other problems seemed run of the mill, personality issues in large part, which arise in any group, and magnified with groups this large. It is always interesting to watch how people behave out of their comfort zone.

Interesting. Again, I was not aware that there were any personality issues. I thought everyone was getting along just fine, within SD and with the other guests at the resort. Seemed like a great group of people.

'Boatlawyer' date='Sep 23 2006, 09:40 AM' post='156702'
I initially agreed that scheduled events during dives was lame. After the second day, however, when people were scrapping dives left and right, due to illness, or lack of desire, I was thinking it probably wasn't a bad idea. I'm sure everyone noticed how empty those afternoon boats were.

Personally, I didn't care about the extra activities one way or another. It was the resort that kept pushing for our participation, but then held them when we were still diving. :wavey:

'kittydiver' date='Sep 23 2006, 11:29 AM' post='156706'
The first day really was the pits, we couldn't dive. And there were no activities scheduled. No meet and greet in the lobby. SD could have coordinated something with the screen names and the people themselves. All in all I think SD could have been more organized as to activities that they could schedule. It wasn't up to "just the resort" to accommodate the SD group. They were there to service everyone, not just our group. So the onnous is on SD for that one.

An SD meet and greet at the lobby bar with some name tags on the first day would have been ideal. The difficult thing is that people were arriving at all different times, so it would have been hard to plan one so that everyone could attend. It still would have been worth a try. I don't think it is SDs responsibility to plan activities. If you would have scheduled this trip with a travel agent, would you have expected them to tell you how to spend your time on the day that you arrive at your destination? They provided us with a travel service only. The great thing is that they bring us all together as single divers and provide us this board to get to know each other beforehand. It just so happens that this particular trip was to a destination that also had activities planned. Although SD was a co-sponsor, I'm not sure that they were given much control over the activities.

#123 kittydiverChris

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 01:47 PM

An SD meet and greet at the lobby bar with some name tags on the first day would have been ideal. The difficult thing is that people were arriving at all different times, so it would have been hard to plan one so that everyone could attend. It still would have been worth a try. I don't think it is SDs responsibility to plan activities. If you would have scheduled this trip with a travel agent, would you have expected them to tell you how to spend your time on the day that you arrive at your destination? They provided us with a travel service only. The great thing is that they bring us all together as single divers and provide us this board to get to know each other beforehand. It just so happens that this particular trip was to a destination that also had activities planned. Although SD was a co-sponsor, I'm not sure that they were given much control over the activities.[/color]


ScubaPunk,
Very true, I would not expect a travel agent to plan activities for me. I went on a trip that was sponsored by PADI last year and did have a similar expectation of SD since they were sponsoring the trip. I did not realize SD was only acting as a travel agent. The group did seem exclusive because of the board and it made the trip much more enjoyable.

#124 ScubaPunk

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 02:48 PM

An SD meet and greet at the lobby bar with some name tags on the first day would have been ideal. The difficult thing is that people were arriving at all different times, so it would have been hard to plan one so that everyone could attend. It still would have been worth a try. I don't think it is SDs responsibility to plan activities. If you would have scheduled this trip with a travel agent, would you have expected them to tell you how to spend your time on the day that you arrive at your destination? They provided us with a travel service only. The great thing is that they bring us all together as single divers and provide us this board to get to know each other beforehand. It just so happens that this particular trip was to a destination that also had activities planned. Although SD was a co-sponsor, I'm not sure that they were given much control over the activities.[/color]

ScubaPunk,
Very true, I would not expect a travel agent to plan activities for me. I went on a trip that was sponsored by PADI last year and did have a similar expectation of SD since they were sponsoring the trip. I did not realize SD was only acting as a travel agent. The group did seem exclusive because of the board and it made the trip much more enjoyable.

SD is a travel agent, and a whole lot more. The group is exclusive, and the board does make the trips more enjoyable. Your average travel agent does not provide you with an internet site bringing together like minded individuals so that you can get to know them before vacationing with them, offer information and discussions on your sport, provide a place where members can get together to plan local events and activities, etc. For these reasons, I think SD has taken the services that a travel agent offers and raised the bar a few levels higher. When all is said and done, I think we need to remind ourselves that SD is a travel site for single scuba divers (in my opinion). WW goes a long way to offer a service that is extremely unique. Because it is so unique, many people find it very confusing, and expect things that were never really part of the deal.

Edited by ScubaPunk, 23 September 2006 - 02:49 PM.


#125 Stingray1

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 03:21 PM

Thank you FG, WW and Mark for all your hard work. Does WW every relax? :wavey:
It was a fun experience and I had a great time meeting a whole bunch of new dive friends.
Phyllis

#126 kittydiverChris

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 03:22 PM

Not sure if Fantasy Island sent this email to everyone who attended the singles week, but thought I would share with all of you. This way we can put our thoughts and feelings about the result in his survey.

"Hi.
Something about SINGLES WEEK attached. Your input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Nick

Nicholas Palandra
US General Manager

www.fantastyislandresort.com <http://www.fantastyi...landresort.com>
FANTASY ISLAND BEACH RESORT
800-676-2826
npalandra@bonnebeach.com"

Ok, not sure how to put the survey file in this post. Can anyone help?

Edited by kittydiver, 23 September 2006 - 03:26 PM.


#127 finGrabber

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 10:02 PM

kittydiver,

forward the email to me at fingrabber@singledivers.com and I'll upload the survey for you

fG

#128 MikeSpokane

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 02:55 PM

Thanks Mike and Karen for your comments!

I appreciate everyone's comments so far - I had a great time putting names to screen names all week :birthday: It is great to know that our eforts were not wasted and that everyone had a great time

I really loved stopping off at Mike's every afternoon for a post dive beer...hanging out with Mike, Steve, Phyllis, Mark, Pam, Stan and whoever else stopped by everyday :usflag:

then, trying to lock the Wench out of our room and figuring out the perfect time for a happy hour (Thanks Karen!) in my and the Wench's room :)

and that Shark Dive rocked!!

Plus, the divers on my boat all week! We had a great time :birthday: and laughing on the blue seas :birthday: it was a week I won't soon forget...thank you all for making all the work worthwhile!


Kim:
and all-sorry for the long post

My "Mike's porch" happy hour was truly a highlight of my trip as well. Thanks Steve, Felicia, Kim , Kamala, Stan, Pam , Karens, Mark, Sunni and all who shared the post dive glow and quiet conversation. It is nice to get to know people in quiet conversation and shared experiences. A lot of laughs

Three dives made my trip worth the time. Diving with Kamala, Kim and Marty is a suberb experience; one that I don't now often get to experience. Divers so comfortable, smooth and slow that one becomes a part of the enviroment we are visiting. Once that trust amoung divers develops, there is nothing you do not see or feel in the sea. Those were the zen dives I miss since my family dive buddies are either no longer available or seldom available. That is what I was looking for in SingleDivers-great divers-there are a lot of great singles above water, but diving with great divers is a rare treat.

Accomodations. I went from FI to a 4 star WA DC hotel. I was very comfortable in each. I liked the facilitues at FI. Very carribean island, though next time they paint they may want to consider enamel instead of latex. Took some of us a few days to figure out why we were wearing white spots.

Diving. The nature of the group and the desciption of the trip made it apparent that it would probably not be small boat diving. I relearned why I generally only do the small boats. But that is what we signed on for. Kamala is one of the best instructors I have ever met in part because she understands so well the psychology of diving. I learned a lot in a few words about coping with the most dangerous animal in the sea.

People who haven't had the luxury of spending a lot of time in the carribean waters particularly at shallow depths for long dives with a small group may not realize that you don't need to chase nature. It will find you if you go slow. One of the reasons I went on this trip was to observe for myself the condition of the reef and biosphere on Roatan. For example, Lobsters/octopu travel at night and not too fast. If the DM or someone points one out - no need to hurry or rush in in a group. It will be there when you get there. Same with a nurse shark and most critters. They are territorial. That is how the DM's know where they are. That and reconizing habitat.

REEF.We should be worried. A lot of the coral in some places was showing a lot of bleaching. water is too hot-90! Other places there was new growth-buds. The visual distortion we saw in the water on a regular basis was I finally decided was runoff. That is what salt water looks like infused with fresh water. I first though there were springs when I saw only a small amount but the group moved away too fast to allow me to investigate- since the vis was a little low I had to follow.

I believe the reason many of us got so sick was because of the polution carried into the water by the runoff and probably overwhleming the sewage treatment plant we passed on the way in. i was trying to find out more about it but my Spanish was too weak when we first arrived.-(my diving asnd Spanish both seem to start to really come basck just as I leave). We were swimming in trash on many of the dives. I always pick up any trash I can. I filled my wetsuit and then gave up. The rain washes the ground into the sea. All the garbage on the ground washes with it, and waste not properly disposed of,washes with it All the sewage and lack of proper facilities, too, washes with it. I was wishing for a closed system.

Part of the problem is systemic part is FI being too cheap to burn gas de otro lado. I took a "collectivo" on my final day-SUnday and saw the poverty, lack of infrastructure and difficult conditions of the peolple, hitched a ride witha cuban auto mechanic, and otherwise explored. The great contrast was I also attended on the same exploration)an open house of a beach property which sold for 745,000.

Marine wildlife. We were on the windward side of the Island. If you were a larger creature would you fight the waves (current-surge) or set up on the leeward side where it is calm but a steady flow of food moves around the island past you and a lot more little critter also want to stay. And further away from the sewage treatment plan, and the mouths of the rivers, and further away and protected from any mainland pollution. Also the water was hot. Big critters go deeper. Hot uses enegy to stay cool(homeostasis). Use sof energy in nature is survival. You want more wildlife consider what we are doing to the environment. The fertilizer ou put on your yard is affecting the carribean, so i the SUV we drive, and the cheap chinese goods-where there are no pollution laws.

There was a lot more wildlife than many people saw. Imagine how you'd react if a horde of divers rushed at you. One of the most elegant fissh to see swim is a drum. They are small, elusive, and shy. It was the only time I wished I had a camera.

I was appalled at the treatment of the reef and the wildlife. Not necessarily by our group but by the DM (wildlife) and others (reef). I wanted to drown the Italian men ( the Italian woman were too much fun to communicate with since they spoke no English and I no Italian). I pulled fins off coral-once when a Italian layed on top of hard coral wrapping his legs around it, with his hands on a sponge, just so he could get a picture of an eel. When members of our group inadvertantly were kicjing the reef, the DM were not nearly assertive enough. Those diving heavy and doing so didn't want to , just didn't realize how often they were. The DM should take charge educate the tourists, we all appreciate it.

The DM fed the fish. NO. Poked eels with a stick. NO

Staff at FI. Next time you are anywhere get to know the people who live there even if they are servers. I was treated like royalty. I try to speak the language as a sign of respect for the culture. Santos was our cook-he made your omeletes, also. He set Stan and I, and others up with hot milk for our early 5:30-6am coffee. we were welcome in his kitchen. Marcos (mark) and Burke were server. 20/19 same age as my youngest son. They are aware of the world outside of Roatan but have only been to the mainland. They wonder about their future but are ambitious. They are more motivated tahhn most young american who take privelege sfro sgranted.They know many very well educated people on the Island who cant find work so education may not be the ticket out of subssistence living that it is in the US. We had many long and interesting talks. I only regret that I didn't have time for them to show me the Island and introduce me to craftsman as they offered. I was too sick one day and wanted to see OSU kick TX Butt the other non dive days. Next time. I expect to stay in touch by email.

Part of the problem with the support staff is they want to be treated with respect-remember their names, look them in the eye, they are not fungible goods but very proud peolple. They are not even allowed to eat the food that is thrown away. They will be charged or fired. If fruit is too ripe too eat. It is still thrown away. There are few (or no) laws to protect the worker. If they are fired, they forfeit all the pay they have earned that month. If the fresca count comes up short they all ahve the cost deducted from the pay. The Italians have it included the US don't. The tips paid to the resort dont all make it to the staff. There is more. Tip your good servers directly in cash. Whichever Maria Antoinette made a comment about the server staff, please just consider yourself in their position-I wouldn't do nearly as well.

Thank Kim, Kamala -you worked your tails off for the benefit of the rest of us. I'd buy you a beer or "INTOX .32" anytime. My life is richer for meeting everone who travelled with us-thenk you all.

Now about my pirate flag.......

Stan how was Belize, Granada. reef condition. vis?


Mike

#129 Jellyfishluv

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 10:32 AM

Wow, the things you learn cause you don't have a job and you're still getting over whatever stowaway bugs you brought back from a tropical vacation. :birthday:



Stowaway bugs,
Lets just say, I am still sick and have to take a sample to the lab for testing. Parasites I think. Yuck Yuck Yuck.


Kitty,

were you taking choroquin as an antimalaria drug because many of the side affects you had are those from that drug. I figured a little nausea & the rest is the price I might have to pay to avoid something much worse like malaria :birthday: And I had to take one pill the week before, the week of, and 4 weeks after, so side affects should last 6 weeks (FYI)
:fish2: Keep on swimming, swimming, swimming...

#130 Boatlawyer

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 10:53 AM

Thanks Mike and Karen for your comments!

I appreciate everyone's comments so far - I had a great time putting names to screen names all week :birthday: It is great to know that our eforts were not wasted and that everyone had a great time

I really loved stopping off at Mike's every afternoon for a post dive beer...hanging out with Mike, Steve, Phyllis, Mark, Pam, Stan and whoever else stopped by everyday :birthday:

then, trying to lock the Wench out of our room and figuring out the perfect time for a happy hour (Thanks Karen!) in my and the Wench's room :birthday:

and that Shark Dive rocked!!

Plus, the divers on my boat all week! We had a great time :birthday: and laughing on the blue seas :birthday: it was a week I won't soon forget...thank you all for making all the work worthwhile!


Kim:
and all-sorry for the long post

My "Mike's porch" happy hour was truly a highlight of my trip as well. Thanks Steve, Felicia, Kim , Kamala, Stan, Pam , Karens, Mark, Sunni and all who shared the post dive glow and quiet conversation. It is nice to get to know people in quiet conversation and shared experiences. A lot of laughs

Three dives made my trip worth the time. Diving with Kamala, Kim and Marty is a suberb experience; one that I don't now often get to experience. Divers so comfortable, smooth and slow that one becomes a part of the enviroment we are visiting. Once that trust amoung divers develops, there is nothing you do not see or feel in the sea. Those were the zen dives I miss since my family dive buddies are either no longer available or seldom available. That is what I was looking for in SingleDivers-great divers-there are a lot of great singles above water, but diving with great divers is a rare treat.

Accomodations. I went from FI to a 4 star WA DC hotel. I was very comfortable in each. I liked the facilitues at FI. Very carribean island, though next time they paint they may want to consider enamel instead of latex. Took some of us a few days to figure out why we were wearing white spots.

Diving. The nature of the group and the desciption of the trip made it apparent that it would probably not be small boat diving. I relearned why I generally only do the small boats. But that is what we signed on for. Kamala is one of the best instructors I have ever met in part because she understands so well the psychology of diving. I learned a lot in a few words about coping with the most dangerous animal in the sea.

People who haven't had the luxury of spending a lot of time in the carribean waters particularly at shallow depths for long dives with a small group may not realize that you don't need to chase nature. It will find you if you go slow. One of the reasons I went on this trip was to observe for myself the condition of the reef and biosphere on Roatan. For example, Lobsters/octopu travel at night and not too fast. If the DM or someone points one out - no need to hurry or rush in in a group. It will be there when you get there. Same with a nurse shark and most critters. They are territorial. That is how the DM's know where they are. That and reconizing habitat.

REEF.We should be worried. A lot of the coral in some places was showing a lot of bleaching. water is too hot-90! Other places there was new growth-buds. The visual distortion we saw in the water on a regular basis was I finally decided was runoff. That is what salt water looks like infused with fresh water. I first though there were springs when I saw only a small amount but the group moved away too fast to allow me to investigate- since the vis was a little low I had to follow.

I believe the reason many of us got so sick was because of the polution carried into the water by the runoff and probably overwhleming the sewage treatment plant we passed on the way in. i was trying to find out more about it but my Spanish was too weak when we first arrived.-(my diving asnd Spanish both seem to start to really come basck just as I leave). We were swimming in trash on many of the dives. I always pick up any trash I can. I filled my wetsuit and then gave up. The rain washes the ground into the sea. All the garbage on the ground washes with it, and waste not properly disposed of,washes with it All the sewage and lack of proper facilities, too, washes with it. I was wishing for a closed system.

Part of the problem is systemic part is FI being too cheap to burn gas de otro lado. I took a "collectivo" on my final day-SUnday and saw the poverty, lack of infrastructure and difficult conditions of the peolple, hitched a ride witha cuban auto mechanic, and otherwise explored. The great contrast was I also attended on the same exploration)an open house of a beach property which sold for 745,000.

Marine wildlife. We were on the windward side of the Island. If you were a larger creature would you fight the waves (current-surge) or set up on the leeward side where it is calm but a steady flow of food moves around the island past you and a lot more little critter also want to stay. And further away from the sewage treatment plan, and the mouths of the rivers, and further away and protected from any mainland pollution. Also the water was hot. Big critters go deeper. Hot uses enegy to stay cool(homeostasis). Use sof energy in nature is survival. You want more wildlife consider what we are doing to the environment. The fertilizer ou put on your yard is affecting the carribean, so i the SUV we drive, and the cheap chinese goods-where there are no pollution laws.

There was a lot more wildlife than many people saw. Imagine how you'd react if a horde of divers rushed at you. One of the most elegant fissh to see swim is a drum. They are small, elusive, and shy. It was the only time I wished I had a camera.

I was appalled at the treatment of the reef and the wildlife. Not necessarily by our group but by the DM (wildlife) and others (reef). I wanted to drown the Italian men ( the Italian woman were too much fun to communicate with since they spoke no English and I no Italian). I pulled fins off coral-once when a Italian layed on top of hard coral wrapping his legs around it, with his hands on a sponge, just so he could get a picture of an eel. When members of our group inadvertantly were kicjing the reef, the DM were not nearly assertive enough. Those diving heavy and doing so didn't want to , just didn't realize how often they were. The DM should take charge educate the tourists, we all appreciate it.

The DM fed the fish. NO. Poked eels with a stick. NO

Staff at FI. Next time you are anywhere get to know the people who live there even if they are servers. I was treated like royalty. I try to speak the language as a sign of respect for the culture. Santos was our cook-he made your omeletes, also. He set Stan and I, and others up with hot milk for our early 5:30-6am coffee. we were welcome in his kitchen. Marcos (mark) and Burke were server. 20/19 same age as my youngest son. They are aware of the world outside of Roatan but have only been to the mainland. They wonder about their future but are ambitious. They are more motivated tahhn most young american who take privelege sfro sgranted.They know many very well educated people on the Island who cant find work so education may not be the ticket out of subssistence living that it is in the US. We had many long and interesting talks. I only regret that I didn't have time for them to show me the Island and introduce me to craftsman as they offered. I was too sick one day and wanted to see OSU kick TX Butt the other non dive days. Next time. I expect to stay in touch by email.

Part of the problem with the support staff is they want to be treated with respect-remember their names, look them in the eye, they are not fungible goods but very proud peolple. They are not even allowed to eat the food that is thrown away. They will be charged or fired. If fruit is too ripe too eat. It is still thrown away. There are few (or no) laws to protect the worker. If they are fired, they forfeit all the pay they have earned that month. If the fresca count comes up short they all ahve the cost deducted from the pay. The Italians have it included the US don't. The tips paid to the resort dont all make it to the staff. There is more. Tip your good servers directly in cash. Whichever Maria Antoinette made a comment about the server staff, please just consider yourself in their position-I wouldn't do nearly as well.

Thank Kim, Kamala -you worked your tails off for the benefit of the rest of us. I'd buy you a beer or "INTOX .32" anytime. My life is richer for meeting everone who travelled with us-thenk you all.

Now about my pirate flag.......

Stan how was Belize, Granada. reef condition. vis?


Mike


Wow, Mike, thanks for your, always informative, opinions! Now, since I was not an apparent Marie Antoinette, as I remembered my room attendant's name, Daisy, and spoke with her daily in my broken spanish, nor did I expect better service than I received, which, I agree, was terrific. I didn't go to the lengths you did to explore the culture, lack of opportunities and so forth with the staff, but found that a warm smile, hola and gracias, went a long way in making my stay very pleasant indeed.

I buy some of your theory vis-a-vis currents, etc. But not sure about the pollution angle, unless you limit it to whatever Honduras is doing there. I went diving here in Fort Lauderdale, yesterday, which I think you would agree would certainly be a better indicator of the result of U.S. polluters than Roatan, and found the marine life to be much more abundant. And the reefs I was on were nothing special, not even in marine sanctuary. So, I remain troubled and confused about the lack of Roatan critters, large and small.

#131 Latitude Adjustment

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 12:05 PM

You can't go to one island and expect to find everything on your marine wish list, Roatan and the other Bay Islands are good for the small stuff, Utila has all that and whale sharks year round. If you want schooling fish the Keys and the Bahamas are good, turtles and bigger stuff go to West Palm Beach, Lemon sharks are a little farther up the coast in Jupiter. Really big stuff then it's the Galapagos, Cocos or next months trip to Baja.
If it was all in one place that would be no fun, like someone I know who spent the whole dive photographing a yellow puffer and never saw the whaleshark above her.
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#132 MikeSpokane

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 11:08 AM

Thanks Mike and Karen for your comments!

I appreciate everyone's comments so far - I had a great time putting names to screen names all week :thankyou: It is great to know that our eforts were not wasted and that everyone had a great time

I really loved stopping off at Mike's every afternoon for a post dive beer...hanging out with Mike, Steve, Phyllis, Mark, Pam, Stan and whoever else stopped by everyday ;)

then, trying to lock the Wench out of our room and figuring out the perfect time for a happy hour (Thanks Karen!) in my and the Wench's room :P

and that Shark Dive rocked!!

Plus, the divers on my boat all week! We had a great time :thankyou: and laughing on the blue seas :thankyou: it was a week I won't soon forget...thank you all for making all the work worthwhile!


Kim:
and all-sorry for the long post

My "Mike's porch" happy hour was truly a highlight of my trip as well. Thanks Steve, Felicia, Kim , Kamala, Stan, Pam , Karens, Mark, Sunni and all who shared the post dive glow and quiet conversation. It is nice to get to know people in quiet conversation and shared experiences. A lot of laughs

Three dives made my trip worth the time. Diving with Kamala, Kim and Marty is a suberb experience; one that I don't now often get to experience. Divers so comfortable, smooth and slow that one becomes a part of the enviroment we are visiting. Once that trust amoung divers develops, there is nothing you do not see or feel in the sea. Those were the zen dives I miss since my family dive buddies are either no longer available or seldom available. That is what I was looking for in SingleDivers-great divers-there are a lot of great singles above water, but diving with great divers is a rare treat.

Accomodations. I went from FI to a 4 star WA DC hotel. I was very comfortable in each. I liked the facilitues at FI. Very carribean island, though next time they paint they may want to consider enamel instead of latex. Took some of us a few days to figure out why we were wearing white spots.

Diving. The nature of the group and the desciption of the trip made it apparent that it would probably not be small boat diving. I relearned why I generally only do the small boats. But that is what we signed on for. Kamala is one of the best instructors I have ever met in part because she understands so well the psychology of diving. I learned a lot in a few words about coping with the most dangerous animal in the sea.

People who haven't had the luxury of spending a lot of time in the carribean waters particularly at shallow depths for long dives with a small group may not realize that you don't need to chase nature. It will find you if you go slow. One of the reasons I went on this trip was to observe for myself the condition of the reef and biosphere on Roatan. For example, Lobsters/octopu travel at night and not too fast. If the DM or someone points one out - no need to hurry or rush in in a group. It will be there when you get there. Same with a nurse shark and most critters. They are territorial. That is how the DM's know where they are. That and reconizing habitat.

REEF.We should be worried. A lot of the coral in some places was showing a lot of bleaching. water is too hot-90! Other places there was new growth-buds. The visual distortion we saw in the water on a regular basis was I finally decided was runoff. That is what salt water looks like infused with fresh water. I first though there were springs when I saw only a small amount but the group moved away too fast to allow me to investigate- since the vis was a little low I had to follow.

I believe the reason many of us got so sick was because of the polution carried into the water by the runoff and probably overwhleming the sewage treatment plant we passed on the way in. i was trying to find out more about it but my Spanish was too weak when we first arrived.-(my diving asnd Spanish both seem to start to really come basck just as I leave). We were swimming in trash on many of the dives. I always pick up any trash I can. I filled my wetsuit and then gave up. The rain washes the ground into the sea. All the garbage on the ground washes with it, and waste not properly disposed of,washes with it All the sewage and lack of proper facilities, too, washes with it. I was wishing for a closed system.

Part of the problem is systemic part is FI being too cheap to burn gas de otro lado. I took a "collectivo" on my final day-SUnday and saw the poverty, lack of infrastructure and difficult conditions of the peolple, hitched a ride witha cuban auto mechanic, and otherwise explored. The great contrast was I also attended on the same exploration)an open house of a beach property which sold for 745,000.

Marine wildlife. We were on the windward side of the Island. If you were a larger creature would you fight the waves (current-surge) or set up on the leeward side where it is calm but a steady flow of food moves around the island past you and a lot more little critter also want to stay. And further away from the sewage treatment plan, and the mouths of the rivers, and further away and protected from any mainland pollution. Also the water was hot. Big critters go deeper. Hot uses enegy to stay cool(homeostasis). Use sof energy in nature is survival. You want more wildlife consider what we are doing to the environment. The fertilizer ou put on your yard is affecting the carribean, so i the SUV we drive, and the cheap chinese goods-where there are no pollution laws.

There was a lot more wildlife than many people saw. Imagine how you'd react if a horde of divers rushed at you. One of the most elegant fissh to see swim is a drum. They are small, elusive, and shy. It was the only time I wished I had a camera.

I was appalled at the treatment of the reef and the wildlife. Not necessarily by our group but by the DM (wildlife) and others (reef). I wanted to drown the Italian men ( the Italian woman were too much fun to communicate with since they spoke no English and I no Italian). I pulled fins off coral-once when a Italian layed on top of hard coral wrapping his legs around it, with his hands on a sponge, just so he could get a picture of an eel. When members of our group inadvertantly were kicjing the reef, the DM were not nearly assertive enough. Those diving heavy and doing so didn't want to , just didn't realize how often they were. The DM should take charge educate the tourists, we all appreciate it.

The DM fed the fish. NO. Poked eels with a stick. NO

Staff at FI. Next time you are anywhere get to know the people who live there even if they are servers. I was treated like royalty. I try to speak the language as a sign of respect for the culture. Santos was our cook-he made your omeletes, also. He set Stan and I, and others up with hot milk for our early 5:30-6am coffee. we were welcome in his kitchen. Marcos (mark) and Burke were server. 20/19 same age as my youngest son. They are aware of the world outside of Roatan but have only been to the mainland. They wonder about their future but are ambitious. They are more motivated tahhn most young american who take privelege sfro sgranted.They know many very well educated people on the Island who cant find work so education may not be the ticket out of subssistence living that it is in the US. We had many long and interesting talks. I only regret that I didn't have time for them to show me the Island and introduce me to craftsman as they offered. I was too sick one day and wanted to see OSU kick TX Butt the other non dive days. Next time. I expect to stay in touch by email.

Part of the problem with the support staff is they want to be treated with respect-remember their names, look them in the eye, they are not fungible goods but very proud peolple. They are not even allowed to eat the food that is thrown away. They will be charged or fired. If fruit is too ripe too eat. It is still thrown away. There are few (or no) laws to protect the worker. If they are fired, they forfeit all the pay they have earned that month. If the fresca count comes up short they all ahve the cost deducted from the pay. The Italians have it included the US don't. The tips paid to the resort dont all make it to the staff. There is more. Tip your good servers directly in cash. Whichever Maria Antoinette made a comment about the server staff, please just consider yourself in their position-I wouldn't do nearly as well.

Thank Kim, Kamala -you worked your tails off for the benefit of the rest of us. I'd buy you a beer or "INTOX .32" anytime. My life is richer for meeting everone who travelled with us-thenk you all.

Now about my pirate flag.......

Stan how was Belize, Granada. reef condition. vis?


Mike


Wow, Mike, thanks for your, always informative, opinions! Now, since I was not an apparent Marie Antoinette, as I remembered my room attendant's name, Daisy, and spoke with her daily in my broken spanish, nor did I expect better service than I received, which, I agree, was terrific. I didn't go to the lengths you did to explore the culture, lack of opportunities and so forth with the staff, but found that a warm smile, hola and gracias, went a long way in making my stay very pleasant indeed.

I buy some of your theory vis-a-vis currents, etc. But not sure about the pollution angle, unless you limit it to whatever Honduras is doing there. I went diving here in Fort Lauderdale, yesterday, which I think you would agree would certainly be a better indicator of the result of U.S. polluters than Roatan, and found the marine life to be much more abundant. And the reefs I was on were nothing special, not even in marine sanctuary. So, I remain troubled and confused about the lack of Roatan critters, large and small.


I believe the pollution-bacteria in water affected our sickness. I believe the windward side always has less animals . And I also believe that the relaticely very high water temps and reduced vis, infusion of fresh water altering salinity and ph, all contribute to lack of the larger animals. All of the above in a noin-scientific analysis -open to debate. I have too little sexperience with Roatan, specifically (no prior) and dive location other than Cozumel (which is always beyond outstanding), Yucatan Penesula, the Bahamas, Hawaii, and FLA with which to judge. My ratings would be COz (on a different scale so far in no1), Mex rivierra(turtles,sharks), HI ( too comercial-too many peole-the diving great), fla/Bahama (ok). I have ssheard that Bonaire, Palau and AUS compare to Coz. Sosmseday I hope to find out.

#133 Jazzdiver

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 12:22 PM

Hi Mike,

I enjoyed reading your comments earlier and while I've no educated basis for agreeing with the reasons you speculated on for the illnesses, lack of larger fish life, etc., I tend to agree that what you suggest at least seems reasonable. As for the illnesses though, perhaps the biggest factor was indeed just the number of people around one another during Singles Week at Fantasy Island and even on the flights to/from there. I say that largely based upon how I returned home with a slight cough but little of anything else, but my trip to Roatan was a week later, where I stayed at Anthony's Key Resort among a typical low-season group of folks numbering perhaps no more than 50. My flights on Taca were very surprisingly empty, nearly as if they were my own private jet...maybe 20 passengers each way! (impact of Continental??)

With regard to the ocean life, I too thought the numbers seemed considerably down from years passed, and I do have the benefit of this being my 5th stay ('94, '96', '99, 2002, 2006) at AKR to back up my observations. But, I have nothing to suggest why. At first, I too speculated it was the water temperature, since the 84°F water seemed almost hot. My dive computer was trying to tell me it was 90°F, but I found that hard to believe and instead trusted my dive watch's temperature profiles plus other divers reporting temps in the mid-upper 80's. Although the water seemed warm, a review of my previous visits' dive logs revealed consistency in the water temps from year to year, with '94 being a degree or so cooler, but that was also an April visit rather than September. So, I've pretty much abandoned the warm water as a factor.

Pollution? Perhaps. And that seems the most likely cluprit to me, given how in the 4 years since I was last at Roatan, the island has seen quite a bit of growth that would inevitably have increased pollution as a by-product. I noticed quite a bit more particulates in the water than what I remembered of prior diving years, but that could easily be just a bad memory. I've no idea if those particulates were pollution-related or not, but again that seems a reasonable assumption.

It is interesting that while I, staying on the north side, felt the south side of Roatan seemed to offer healthier looking corals, sponges, and more ocean life overall, the reverse seems to be what those of you staying on the south side thought. So, it seems to me that conditions simply varied widely from one site to another. I saw quite a bit of dead coral and coral bleaching, but don't recall where I observed it the most at. As far as the larger critters go however, the few I did see apart from the expected sharks of the shark dive, were all on the north side...a few sea turtles, green morays, and a pod of 30-40 pilot whales.

Getting back to the illnesses, we had one diver I know of at AKR who came down with a day of stomach distress and perhaps a fever, although I don't think he ever took his temperature. He was inclined to attribute his illness to what he ate, save for the fact that he and I had eaten very nearly the same things on the day prior to his taking ill. to my knowledge, he'd not been in the sand much, but one thing I've heard over the years is that there is a bacteria in the sand on Roatan that some people seem hypersensitive too, and which can cause a rather debilitating case of flu-like symptoms. I personally have had problems with the big toe of my right foot shedding its toenail following 3 different trips to Roatan, and I attribute that also to some sort of bacteria in the water/sand, as well as a toe that may be vulnerable anyway, given that I crushed it as a toddler and perhaps the nail structure is thus weak. The problem has only been to that toe, hence why I associate the childhood injury as a contributing factor. This year, I had no problems, but I also scrubbed my feet with Betadine each time I showered, per my doctor's recommendation as a good way to help kill off any unusual bacteria. I also took along an antibacterial nail-treatment called Reclaim, which probably helped also.

I've not dove many different locations....Roatan, Cayman Brac/Little Cayman, and Cozumel. Of those however, Cozumel largely seemed to have the greatest abundance of ocean life and water clarity, albeit again not so many of the larger animals other than grouper, and I tend to think it is the constant wash of nutrients through that area that really nurture the healthy fish populations. Contrasting a current-swept location (Cozumel) where drift dives are the norm versus one where stationary dives are easily accommodated (Roatan) due to fewer currents, I'll bet the former is likely to be the one where the ocean life is more abundant. However, I'd say the healthiest conditions I've ever observed were either at Barbaret, a day trip off the east end of Roatan that is largely unspoiled, or at Little Cayman. What I see in common with both those locations is just that...their location, neither being very highly developed areas succumbing to the ills of commercial growth.

Regards,

Daryl
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#134 WreckWench

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 12:38 PM

A note on illness:

People were suffering from different forms of illness on the trip but that is normal for any trip that size and nature.

For example, Stan aka Desert_Diver is a chronic sinus sufferer and had sinus issues all week. I am now highly allergic to smoke and I was 'dosed' daily with smoke at the resort so the constant exposure caused me to develop an upper respiratory infection. (However if you did not know that you may have thought I had a cold.)

Most people are run down trying to get ready for a trip (think stress and needing a vacation) and as soon as they have a change of routine (think different food, sleeping and timezones) they get sick.

Repeated exposure from sick people such as on the airplane, at the resort and perhaps your roommate will also weaken many people and cause them to get ill either during or after the trip.

It was highly unlikely that people got sick due to pollution, food, etc. However eating more food or different food than what you are accustomed too will cause some loose stool, bloaty or gasey stomach and general discomfort. Even if you eat good food say for example fruit every morning for breakfast...if you system is not used to it, it will change your internal functions. Then add alcohol to the mix and you have a recipie for people not feeling so hot!

I will say that those of you on the SD regime of flaxseed and produce extracts did NOT get sick as your immune functions are very strong and resistent. But pumping over 250 pounds of vine rippened fresh fruits, veggies and berries thru your system monthly will build your immune response 33% over what it is today in just 30 days. And don't forget that flaxseed is both anti-viral and anti-bacterial so this regime is very simple as well as strong for staying healthy and staying well!

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#135 AliKat

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 02:26 PM

I know I was sea sick and the flat bottomed boats didn't help. But I'm also pretty sure they were spraying the area with some sort of pesticide that didn't agree with me. At first I thought it was the malaria meds, but I noticed after spending the night in the AC, I'd feel fine in the morning - 20 minutes after being out of the room and I had a headache and queezy stomach. When I left the resort for the zipline, the shark dive and the shopping trip, I started to feel much better, but, about 20 minutes back on FI, and I was sick again. Didn't seem to have a lasting effects. I was fine by the time I got the airport, and haven't had any problems since.

Oh, and I've discovered I can't take the extracts - I tried twice and they have a drugging like effect on me - I can't stay awake and I was sleeping right through alarms. I had the same symptoms about 10 days into taking them both times and both times the symptoms went away about 2-3 days after I dc'd them.
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