161 replies to this topic

[jholley309]

I started to reply to a post in another thread, but thought "Why not start a whole new thread, since I'm about to hijack this one anyway!" So, in a continuation of the discussion from the "Guys and their codes" thread, here goes:

I’ve been biting my tongue on this for a while. But this question always gets me. The absolute truth is that women don’t want nice guys. I know, it sounds like a broad generalization, but it’s mostly true. I know because I fall in this category. What makes me think that I’m a “nice guy?” Well, it’s because after dating a women, I normally get the “you’re a nice guy, and I want to stay friends” speech. But here is the kicker, they REALLY do want to stay friends. In fact, most of my ex’s still call to tell me about their current “favor of the week jerk boyfriends.” Then, to twist the knife in my back, I get the “why can’t I find a nice guy like you?” Then, after I explain to them that I’m here, they retort with either, “but I don’t want to lose our friendship,” or “I’m just not attracted to you in that way.”

Aha! You too? I thought I was the only one...

Seriously, it has gotten so frustrating after all the online dating searches, volunteering to try to meet new people, and even considering some of my church friends, that I finally resorted to international dating. It was the only place I could find a woman (actually, a whole bunch of them) that still had traditional values like mutual respect and caring that I have been looking for, along with a strong desire for family and children. Let's face it, at 35 if I want to have a couple of kidlets of my own, I gotta get on the stick. If there are any women in the US who get it, I haven't met them and have given up hope of ever finding one. Besides, there's this cute little English professor in Belarus...

Just like Moose, I'm so tired of being such a good friend. I want more than that. I want a wife, a lover, a mother to my children, a partner, a confidant, a soulmate, a critic when I need one, and a cheerleader when I need one of those, too. I can't tell you how many profiles I've read that state their desire to find a great guy like me, only to get deafening silence when I attempted to initiate contact. Action speaks much louder that words, baby. Don't tell me you want such a great guy. Show me. I am absolutely fed up with women who profess to be serious about long term relationships, then run away screaming in terror at the mere thought of mentioning the word "marriage". I don't even have to say it. I just have to think it a little too loud.

So if I'm such a great catch, why am I still sitting here with no one but my cats to keep me company? Ah, forget it. I'll just keep writing and calling my new friend in Belarus. At least she isn't afraid of the "M" word.

Cheers!

Jim

Edited by jholley309, 27 December 2006 - 09:26 PM.

[cmt489]

I am absolutely fed up with women who profess to be serious about long term relationships, then run away screaming in terror at the mere thought of mentioning the word "marriage". I don't even have to say it. I just have to think it a little too loud.

Thanks for starting the new thread Jim!

As for the phobia of the "M" word, I have to plead guilty. Of course, I wasn't always that way but, once we hit our 30s, many of us have already been divorced and it is hard to contemplate going through that pain and feeling of failure once again. I have to confess that after my miserably failed marriage, nothing terrifies me more. This does not mean that I will not get into a relationship but I am pretty certain that nothing would make me bolt from a room quicker than a guy getting down on a knee and pulling out a ring box. Maybe one day I will be able to try again but, for the time being, the "M" word is not in my foreseen future.

[drbill]

Now I'm not necessarily interested in the "M" word since the only reason I might have done that earlier is to have kids... and I got one anyway (and a great one at that).

However, I have to mirror what Jim and Moose said. Too often I'm either seen as the "nice guy" (but sometimes as the "bad boy," and I can be really good when I'm bad). There is a disconnect in what some women say and do (just as there is with some men).

[annasea]

<snip> There is a disconnect in what some women say and do (just as there is with some men).

Here, here! (Especially coming from a man. )

[jeff]

[size=5] WHAT HE SAID[size=3]

I don't even need to get married...did that
I just want someone to share life with; to be close and even committed with out the ring

married women like me...why not the single women who are looking

I have also seen where women want everything perfect and everything right now and they won't hint at what they even want and dream, but they will always go back to the abusive and unfaithful relationships they just left.

Edited by jeff, 28 December 2006 - 01:20 AM.

[Moose]

I started to reply to a post in another thread, but thought "Why not start a whole new thread, since I'm about to hijack this one anyway!" So, in a continuation of the discussion from the "Guys and their codes" thread, here goes:

Just like Moose, I'm so tired of being such a good friend. I want more than that. I want a wife, a lover, a mother to my children, a partner, a confidant, a soulmate, a critic when I need one, and a cheerleader when I need one of those, too. I can't tell you how many profiles I've read that state their desire to find a great guy like me, only to get deafening silence when I attempted to initiate contact. Action speaks much louder that words, baby. Don't tell me you want such a great guy. Show me. I am absolutely fed up with women who profess to be serious about long term relationships, then run away screaming in terror at the mere thought of mentioning the word "marriage". I don't even have to say it. I just have to think it a little too loud.

Thanks for starting a new thread. You know, I was really afraid when I posted my response before that I would get flamed for starting this, but it is refreshing to see that it's the same concerns that many men (and women) have.

Let face it, in dating, women have all the power. The flip side of this, is that a majority of the men out there are a-holes. So why is there this disconnect? It’s easy to identify a jerk of a guy. Here are some suggestions that should make you run for the door, ladies…

If he is over 25 and lives with his parent(s) (unless it's a case where one parent is dead and he is talking care of the other one.)

If he spends more money on clothes than you (or if he looks better in them then you)

If he knows where the nearest "OTB" is

If he doesn't know where the nearest library is. (you should only date a guy with a library card. That way you know he has some sense of responsibility.)

If he drinks mass produced beer.

If he has credit card debt that exceeds the cost of operations in Iraq

If he is French

If he can belch the alphabet, (or even belch on command)

If he doesn't open EVERY door for you, (and for any women, even strangers)

If he asks to go "dutch" on a date.

If the last 3 women he dated wants him dead

If he doesn't listen to Tori Amos. (Ok, I just really dig her music!)

If he has any sports team logo on his car

If he watches NASCAR

If he doesn't have any plants in his house

If he doesn't have any pets

And, of course, the number one sign that he is no good for you…

If he doesn't dive!

Edited by Moose, 28 December 2006 - 06:27 AM.

[annasea]

<snip>

Here are some suggestions that should make you run for the door, ladies…<snip>

Wow! Tough list! Good thing my mother never saw it... I'd have never been born!

[Blackhawk]

Wow! Tough list! Good thing my mother never saw it... I'd have never been born!

No kidding I don't meet all those requirements and I'm a damn nice guy!

But... I do dread hearing the "You're so sweet" It now makes me crindge and wait for the "lets just be friends" Part that'll soon follow. I've recently had stop at "You're such a nice and sweet guy!"... When we just continued or dat and conversation WITHOUT the "lets just be friends" finish of it I almost had a heart attack!

On that note I want to be in a serious relationship but run like the wind when the word 'M' word comes up! Right now I want the companionship and everything that goes into the relationship but I damn sure don't want to be married. Atleast not anytime soon

[Moose]

Wow! Tough list! Good thing my mother never saw it... I'd have never been born!

No kidding I don't meet all those requirements and I'm a damn nice guy!

But... I do dread hearing the "You're so sweet" It now makes me crindge and wait for the "lets just be friends" Part that'll soon follow. I've recently had stop at "You're such a nice and sweet guy!"... When we just continued or dat and conversation WITHOUT the "lets just be friends" finish of it I almost had a heart attack!

On that note I want to be in a serious relationship but run like the wind when the word 'M' word comes up! Right now I want the companionship and everything that goes into the relationship but I damn sure don't want to be married. Atleast not anytime soon

Really, which ones? (There are a few there just for comic releif.)

As far as the "M" word, I am looking for that, but it's not my goal. I was engaged once, and if you want to hear a really sad story, I'll tell you how it ended. Needless to say, it a huge reason I am like I am today.

[Walter]

WAKE UP!!!!

You guys are suffering from delusions.

Women (most of them, anyway and all the ones in which you'd be interested) LIKE nice guys. Just because they aren't interested in you and do date the bad boys doesn't mean they don't like nice guys. YOUR problem is you don't understand the concept of a nice guy.

You have fallen victim of watching bad movies and listening to your mothers. Both are horrible places to get dating advice. Being a nice guy does not mean being a door mat or a wimp. Women are NOT attracted to wimps. When you act like a wimp, you turn women OFF!!!! Stop acting like a wimp. You can be confident, and decisive and still be a nice guy. You can open doors for women (and other men, for that matter) without being a wimp.

Many "nice guys" are trying to manipulate women and women can spot it immediately. Be yourself. Act like you're with you guy friends. Be funny, tease a woman, make her laugh. Nothing is more attractive to a woman than a man who makes her laugh and who takes charge. Women like strong men. If you are constantly complimenting her, it comes across as manipulative. Stop it.

Have you ever noticed that women in whom you have no interest are often attracted to you? That's because you are a nice guy, you are attractive to women when you are simply "being yourself." If you aren't attracted to a woman, you treat her differently than you treat women to whom you are attracted. When you're attracted to a woman, you aren't yourself when she's around. Instead you turn into a wimp. STOP it!!!!!

Never ask a woman for a date. Instead, invite her to join you on an adventure. Plan something fun, diving is an excellent choice, then go do it and have a blast regardless of her joining you. Your enjoyment should not be dependent on her being there. Women are like men in that they like to have fun. If you are having fun, women will want to be with you. If you're not having fun, they'll want to be elsewhere.

Russian, Belorussian, and Ukrainian women are beautiful, they are wonderful ladies, but they live in countries with horrible economies. They are desperate to come to the US, Canada or western Europe. They will profess undying love just to escape the conditions under which they live. They will marry you, have children with you and in the process might even fall in love with you, but not if you continue to be a wimp. If you remain a wimp with women, they'll leave you as soon as they can do so and legally stay in the west. Others from the former USSR will try to trick you into sending them money.

Clean up your act and you won't need to look to the former Soviet Union for women.

[Moose]

WAKE UP!!!!

You guys are suffering from delusions.

Women (most of them, anyway and all the ones in which you'd be interested) LIKE nice guys. Just because they aren't interested in you and do date the bad boys doesn't mean they don't like nice guys. YOUR problem is you don't understand the concept of a nice guy.

--Advice deleted---

Clean up your act and you won't need to look to the former Soviet Union for women.

Walter, this may be some of the most valuable insight I’ve gotten in a long time. I’m going to really look into this. But to be fair, I’m not a wimp when I’m with a lady. But many of the things that I consider as “polite” could be construed as being a wimp. For example, I don’t dominate a conversation talking about myself. I ask questions about them. I will ALWAYS open doors. For her, or strangers (men or women.) I will allow them to choose the place to eat. I ask their opinions on activities and such. I say “sir” and “madam.” I can even match a meal with the best bottle of wine! The problem is that much of this is looked at as “old fashion” or “wimpy.” Not to mention that ordering a Rob Roy at a bar will send the bartender running for his mixing guide. Note, this is how I treat my male buddies as well.

Now, as I’m sure that you can from my post, I have a quirky sense of humor. So I’m sure that gets misread as well. (But if the lady has any kids under the age of eight, they love my stupid jokes/tricks!)

Thanks for the insight. It gives me something to think about.

[BeachBunny]

WAKE UP!!!!

You guys are suffering from delusions.

Women (most of them, anyway and all the ones in which you'd be interested) LIKE nice guys. Just because they aren't interested in you and do date the bad boys doesn't mean they don't like nice guys. YOUR problem is you don't understand the concept of a nice guy.

You have fallen victim of watching bad movies and listening to your mothers. Both are horrible places to get dating advice. Being a nice guy does not mean being a door mat or a wimp. Women are NOT attracted to wimps. When you act like a wimp, you turn women OFF!!!! Stop acting like a wimp. You can be confident, and decisive and still be a nice guy. You can open doors for women (and other men, for that matter) without being a wimp.

Many "nice guys" are trying to manipulate women and women can spot it immediately. Be yourself. Act like you're with you guy friends. Be funny, tease a woman, make her laugh. Nothing is more attractive to a woman than a man who makes her laugh and who takes charge. Women like strong men. If you are constantly complimenting her, it comes across as manipulative. Stop it.

Have you ever noticed that women in whom you have no interest are often attracted to you? That's because you are a nice guy, you are attractive to women when you are simply "being yourself." If you aren't attracted to a woman, you treat her differently than you treat women to whom you are attracted. When you're attracted to a woman, you aren't yourself when she's around. Instead you turn into a wimp. STOP it!!!!!

Never ask a woman for a date. Instead, invite her to join you on an adventure. Plan something fun, diving is an excellent choice, then go do it and have a blast regardless of her joining you. Your enjoyment should not be dependent on her being there. Women are like men in that they like to have fun. If you are having fun, women will want to be with you. If you're not having fun, they'll want to be elsewhere.

Russian, Belorussian, and Ukrainian women are beautiful, they are wonderful ladies, but they live in countries with horrible economies. They are desperate to come to the US, Canada or western Europe. They will profess undying love just to escape the conditions under which they live. They will marry you, have children with you and in the process might even fall in love with you, but not if you continue to be a wimp. If you remain a wimp with women, they'll leave you as soon as they can do so and legally stay in the west. Others from the former USSR will try to trick you into sending them money.

Clean up your act and you won't need to look to the former Soviet Union for women.

VERY well put Walter!!!! Most men don't want a wimpy woman who cannot think for herself, why would a woman want a man without a backbone? I like nice guys, I do not like wimpy guys I can take advantage of! Guys like this make me feel like the bully on the playground with the magnifying glass playing with the helpless ants. I appreciate someone who can be themselves with me, making me laugh is key. As you said....we all like to have fun...if we don't laugh and have fun with you, we will find someone else who fufills these needs!!!


AND Moose.....being polite does not make you a wimp! As Walter said, if the motive is not pure, we can see right through it, so relax, and be yourself! All good things come to those who wait.

Love will find you in the strangest of places, and most often, it happens when you are not looking for it at all.

[Walter]

But to be fair, I’m not a wimp when I’m with a lady. But many of the things that I consider as “polite” could be construed as being a wimp. For example, I don’t dominate a conversation talking about myself. I ask questions about them. I will AWLAYS open doors. For her, or strangers (men or women.) I will allow them to choose the place to eat. I ask their opinions on activities and such. I say “sir” and “madam.” I can even match a meal with the best bottle of wine! The problem is that much of this is looked at as “old fashion” or “wimpy.”

You don't have to be a wimp to be seen as one. Perception is often more important than reality. Don't fall into the interview trap. Where did you go to school? What do you do for a living? Boring. Tease her. Talk about current events. Tease her. Talk about diving. Tease her. Talk about music. Tease her. Oh, did I forget to tell you - tease her.

You need to choose the place to eat. Pick a place and have a backup in mind (she may be allergic to Thai food). "Sir" is fine, why "madam?" In the south, "ma'am" is fine, elsewhere, women say it makes them feel old. Be yourself, but don't act desperate, open doors, walk on the outside, be considerate, be polite, but tease her. Don't tease her in a mean or inconsiderate way, but tease her, have fun. The most important thing is to have fun and exude confidence.

[mantarraya]

While women are no doubt often attracted to the "bad boys", it is certainly not true that they won't respond to a man who is truly genuine in his sweetness and caring....I think the key is in the genuine-ness and perhaps, as Walter says, his confidence in who he is. And, certainly, women DO like to laugh and have fun. That may be where the bad boys "get it", in that they will tease and joke with women.

As for the M-word and women being scared of it, I think that many people just don't really include it in their sphere of possibilities until they are actually involved with someone, that much to their surprise, makes them realize it might indeed be a possibility. But it takes time to get to that point of involvement, and certainly won't be in play on those first few dates or adventures.