161 replies to this topic

[drbill]

Hmmm... no one has ever accused me of being a wimp. In fact at times I may seem too "strong," too intelligent and unlikely to be manipulated. A Chinese woman I was interested in did think I was indecisive simply because I asked her opinion (as my guest) of where she wanted to dive, etc. Hard to imagine asking a woman's opinion on a dive plan would be a sign of "weakness" rather than courtesy, but my female housemate agreed with my assessment.

However, I am a nice guy... I try to follow the Golden Rule, whether towards men or women. But I do tease, don't I Miss X?

Edited by drbill, 28 December 2006 - 10:53 AM.

[bluedolphin]

Bad Boys are an extreme turn off for me, I would love to meet a genuinely "nice" guy who isn't trying to impress others.

[Blackhawk]

Really, which ones? (There are a few there just for comic releif.)

As far as the "M" word, I am looking for that, but it's not my goal. I was engaged once, and if you want to hear a really sad story, I'll tell you how it ended. Needless to say, it a huge reason I am like I am today.

If he doesn't know where the nearest library is. (you should only date a guy with a library card. That way you know he has some sense of responsibility.)

If he drinks mass produced beer.

If he doesn't open EVERY door for you, (and for any women, even strangers)

If he asks to go "dutch" on a date.

If he doesn't listen to Tori Amos. (Ok, I just really dig her music!)

If he has any sports team logo on his car

If he doesn't have any plants in his house

If he doesn't have any pets

These ones ... I don't do the library i buy books love the half priced book store...
I actually LIKE the taste of beer. Shiner, Guiness... Dark beers in general.
I try to open doors for everyone.. but don't consider it a requirement. And quiet frankly when we get out of the car if she waits for me to open her door and doesn't open it herself she'll be sitting in the car... Thats just lazyness
Going "Dutch" I'm assuming you mean splitting the check... This depends on several things... but I believe she should invest as much as I do into the relationship and don't see how spending all my money on her is a ALWAYS the way it should be...
Gotta love UT and my car shows it (well it used to... )
Plants? What you mean actually take the time and water them? I don't have time!
Pets? Bah! More responsibility that I don't have time for.

Please define your term "whimpy" before I attack it.

I agree women want men and not boys thats easy enough and confidence is a HUGE part of it... but do consider whimpy?

[Walter]

Please define your term "whimpy" before I attack it.

How about:

I do not like wimpy guys I can take advantage of!

Some guys are "whipped" the minute the meet a woman. Anyone who is "whipped" comes across as a wimp.

[Blackhawk]

Please define your term "whimpy" before I attack it.

How about:

I do not like wimpy guys I can take advantage of!

Some guys are "whipped" the minute the meet a woman. Anyone who is "whipped" comes across as a wimp.

I figured this is what you were talking about...And can't agrue against women not liking that.

I guess it goes back to perception and the differnces between a nice a guy and someone who can be taken advantage of.

[jholley309]

Russian, Belorussian, and Ukrainian women are beautiful, they are wonderful ladies, but they live in countries with horrible economies. They are desperate to come to the US, Canada or western Europe. They will profess undying love just to escape the conditions under which they live.

Have you ever met a woman from any of the former USSR countries, Walter? In fact, they are not desperate to leave those countries. They get along just fine in those "horrible" economies (which really aren't that bad anymore, just not like our economy). The vast majority of the very small percentage of available women that try international dating would in fact prefer not to move from their homes and roots, but they see no other option if they are to have a family. Being married and having a family for a Slavic woman is like an American woman having a six-figure salary, house in the country, penthouse apartment in the city, and a motor yacht tied up in the Keys. The problem is that women outnumber men by about 100 to 88.

The particular woman I'm interested in now is a linguist, teaching English, French, and German studies to future foreign language teachers. She doesn't get paid much, but she freelances on the side giving private language lessons, cash 'n carry. She's also involved with a lot of charity work as a translator. She loves her life and her home city, but there's one thing missing: a husband. She's looked there to no avail, and has even turned down a couple of very prosperous suitors over here because they weren't a good match. Desperate? Absolutely not. But she is willing to relocate for the right man. I'm just hoping that I'm the one. So far, so good. I know one thing for sure: she and I communicate better and more intimately than any American woman I've ever met, despite the fact that one of us is communicating in a foreign language. That alone is worth flying 5,500 miles to see her, in my book.

Clean up your act and you won't need to look to the former Soviet Union for women.

Thanks for the condescension, man! My act is plenty clean enough, thank you very much. Here's a challenge for you: if the dating situation here is so rosy, then maybe you can find me a woman that's willing to work at a relationship without expecting it to be fairy tale romance and rainbows, and who is serious about marriage and kids. And who doesn't particularly care about how much I make as long as I can keep a decent roof over our heads, or how big the stone in her engagement ring is going to be. Lots of luck. I have had no success despite 15 years of looking, the last 5 of them in a concentrated effort. I'm pretty sure I've exhausted all the possibilities here. I am sick of "I'm not sure I want to get all that serious, let's just see where it goes..." Well, get serious, or get off the bus. At least Russian women get that. Not many American women do.

Hmm...what about Canadians?

Cheers!

Jim

[WreckWench]

WOW! What a thread...but timely.

Here is some of the best advice I've rec'd along the way to meet members of the opposite sex...

1. Do the things you enjoy doing and do them often. Consider doing some things that men like to do (think diving here) and you'll increase your odds of meeting someone special being yourself having a good time. (Walter is spot on.)

2. Like yourself and be confident in who you are. Why would someone like you if you don't like yourself. Not feeling good about yourself? Then do something to improve how you feel...exercise, try something new, go diving, get out of your rut, read a self-help book, or ask for help.

3. Realize that relationships are like playing the lottery. The more you play the more likely you are to win. OTOH...don't get so devestated when you lose. The odds are really about the same.

4. Want to increase your relationship odds? Figure out YOUR top 3-5 deal breakers. Those things that no matter how much fun you have with someone, no matter how great they are, and no matter how great the chemistry...if you don't have these things then you are wasting your time...AND theirs. For example, if you want kids and the person you are with does not...you are in a doomed relationship. If you want kids and the person you've just met doesn't want kids...why would you spend anymore time dating them or even considering them as a viable prospect? Get the idea...the sooner you know YOUR deal breakers the sooner you can discover if they are a problem with your current fling, prospect, date, beau.

5. Do the things you can control and put your plan in place to increase your odds of meeting people doing the things you love to do. Then live your life having fun! That means going diving for most of us which is why SD is such a cool place. We get to meet fun, new and exciting people without the pressure or concern of dating. And if we do meet someone special...that's an added benefit but not the main focus. And Walter is spot on again...you get to meet new people, have fun, tease for no reason, have fun, tease some more, have more fun, and then if you do discover someone...tease some more. We all love to be pursued and desired...just don't come across to needy, too desparate, too wimpy, too aggressive. Be confident in who you are and what you want. And you'll attract the same back to you.


Thanks to all for participating in this thread. It is a great discussion. -ww

[Cold_H2O]

To add a different twist to this thread.

I live alone, own my house, dive, hike, bike, own a pet (or does she own me???)have a job and earn my own money.

I have been told that I am not needy enough to be considered as a potential date.
That I don't need a man in my life, since I am able to take care of things on my own.

I guess I will have to stop ~
doing all those things I love
using the intelligence I have aquired over 40 years of living
just to make myself needy enough to have a man ask me out.

On the other hand ~ I am enjoying my life.
I would love to have a man to share it with but if I have to stop being ME I would rather be alone.

I have no time for the "bad boys" or the "wimps".
Men who like themselves and are able to consider my input while also adding their own thoughts and ideas, are the ones who catch my interest.

I have no desire to run anyones life but my own.
If I wanted to have someone who needed full time care I would have another child.

[cmt489]

Nah. You just need a strong enough guy that's not intimidated by women who can (and do) think for themselves. Besides, not needing a man, but choosing one anyway is much more meaningful. It frees you up to share your life with someone because you want to, not because you need to.

While good in theory, I too have experienced Colleen's problem. While men appear to like the independence at first, they get worried when there is nothing but your own free will holding you there. I have a great job, a great home, a nice car and am free to purchase whatever perks I tend to desire. I am confident and can hold my own in a social setting. I can fight my own fights and don't need someone to get my back. I have actually had more than one man tell me outright that they do not like the fact that I do not need them. Needless to say, those relationships fizzled shortly thereafter.

[Walter]

Have you ever met a woman from any of the former USSR countries, Walter?

Da. Ya zniu menoga ruski padruk. Jim, I have many friends, both men and women from Russia, the Urkraine, Belarus, and several other former Soviet Republics. I have traveled and dived in the USSR. I've kept in touch with many friends I met there and have met many others here in the US in the years since the disintegration of the Soviet Union. I love the Russian (including Ukrainian, White Russian, <you do know Belarus is White Russia?> Moldovian, Kazak, Georgian, and others when I say "Russian") people. They are some of the friendliest and big hearted people you'll ever meet. Both my children were born in Siberia as was my ex-wife. My ex-wife is a wonderful woman. I know a little bit about the culture, the people and the economy in that part of the world.

What I'm saying is Jim, is most of us (and I'm including myself) have learned how to act around women from the wrong sources and we do it badly. Once you learn how to break out of the mindset, you'll be successful with women anywhere. There's no need to look on the other side of the planet. If you don't break out of that mindset, your chances of having a lasting relationship with any woman from any part of the world decrease. I'm sure the woman you've met is a wonderful person. Most of the women I've met in that part of the world are. Since you've already developed a relationship with her, by all means continue, you've likely found someone who can make you happy for the rest of your life, if you don't blow it. Be confident with her, be funny, make her laugh, tease her, have fun with her. Jim, I like you, I believe you are truly a good and decent man. You deserve good things in your life and I hope you get them. I'm sorry I came across as condescening, that was not my intention.

[Cold_H2O]

While good in theory, I too have experienced Colleen's problem. While men appear to like the independence at first, they get worried when there is nothing but your own free will holding you there. I have a great job, a great home, a nice car and am free to purchase whatever perks I tend to desire. I am confident and can hold my own in a social setting. I can fight my own fights and don't need someone to get my back. I have actually had more than one man tell me outright that they do not like the fact that I do not need them. Needless to say, those relationships fizzled shortly thereafter.

Yes ~ It is frustrating.
To be very honest I would rather be with a man who is only staying because his free will is keeping him around.

I would rather be wanted than needed.

I do think my dog is getting tired of having to be my steady Friday night date.
She's not much for watching movies, but she does love snuggling on the couch and is always willing to eat her share of the popcorn.

[pocahontas]

To add a different twist to this thread.

I live alone, own my house, dive, hike, bike, own a pet (or does she own me???)have a job and earn my own money.

I have been told that I am not needy enough to be considered as a potential date.
That I don't need a man in my life, since I am able to take care of things on my own.

I guess I will have to stop ~
doing all those things I love
using the intelligence I have aquired over 40 years of living
just to make myself needy enough to have a man ask me out.

On the other hand ~ I am enjoying my life.
I would love to have a man to share it with but if I have to stop being ME I would rather be alone.

I have no time for the "bad boys" or the "wimps".
Men who like themselves and are able to consider my input while also adding their own thoughts and ideas, are the ones who catch my interest


I have no desire to run anyones life but my own.
If I wanted to have someone who needed full time care I would have another child.

Wow - from a sister who runs into burning buildings for a living - I can only say - AMEN.

[WreckWench]

Nah. You just need a strong enough guy that's not intimidated by women who can (and do) think for themselves. Besides, not needing a man, but choosing one anyway is much more meaningful. It frees you up to share your life with someone because you want to, not because you need to.

While good in theory, I too have experienced Colleen's problem. While men appear to like the independence at first, they get worried when there is nothing but your own free will holding you there. I have a great job, a great home, a nice car and am free to purchase whatever perks I tend to desire. I am confident and can hold my own in a social setting. I can fight my own fights and don't need someone to get my back. I have actually had more than one man tell me outright that they do not like the fact that I do not need them. Needless to say, those relationships fizzled shortly thereafter.

My experience has been similar to CMT489's...being a strong female, some men are attracted to that. However once they realize that I don't 'need' them they get spooked. Most men will not be able to fight the innate urge to take care of a women which they translate into 'being needed'. The real trick is to convince a man that you "need" to be wanted and conversely...you "want" him which is more powerful than needing him. The latter is a position of weakness...she stays with me because she needs me. The former is a very powerful and far more sexy proposition...she stays with me because she WANTS ME!

OTOH...even the most independent woman still has 'needs' that the right man can fulfill and therefore satisfy his need to 'take care of a woman'. The fun part is recognizing the fun is in the search!

[pocahontas]

I think scuba diving and snowboarding with good friends are much more fun than trying to figure out the rules to all the mind games people play....

[Vulture]

I have actually had more than one man tell me outright that they do not like the fact that I do not need them. Needless to say, those relationships fizzled shortly thereafter.

Odd, I have heard the same from women. (Not that the women didn't need you - we are talking about me now, so keep up )

I also get the "You're a nice guy but..." Which, usually, equates to the George's line in that Seinfeld episode - "It's not you, it's me..."

It's a line women can use that is non confrontational when they want to stop a dating relationship and are afraid to say what they really mean (men do it too, btw). It's perceived as easy, neat, clean, and if they run into you again they can smile and say "Hi!" and not have to worry that they hurt your feelings with the truth. You can't argue with it - "No, you don't understand, I'm a jerk! Take me back now?"

So, forget about defining a nice guy and a bad guy. The fascade you put on for that dating expereince didn't work, try again.

Best advice has already been given - be yourself (if you can't, then drink heavily til you can be...). Change your avenues of search - if you're trolling bars probably not the best place for anything eternal. (Tho it does happen). Dating sites are really becoming just like bars these days - everyone's doing it and it's becoming the same environment - everyone is looking at the picture to find Mr. Universe or Miss America, and profiles are pretty much canned repetition of "successful" ones. So it takes longer to find that diamond in the rough as you work thru all the chaff.

So go do what you truly love, and look and see who else is there. They might not work out, or might be taken, but they prob have friends that aren't that either enjoy the same thing, or are interested.

And if all else fails, fly out to Vegas.