45 replies to this topic

[Mermaid Lady]

Two words, my friend:

Commodities Traders

They're the Money Changers of our time.

Teresa,

I'll have to concede ignorance here. It's my impression that gas prices are driven by the market. There's a certain amount of crude that's readily (and inexpensively) available. However, increased demand, partially due to economic expansion in developing countries such as China and India, have forced the oil industry to obtain crude from more costly sources.

We (the US) aren't helping matters with so many people driving eight-cylinder SUVs, mini-vans, and pickup trucks when smaller vehicles would serve their purposes. This increases demand and results in a greater proportion of a gallon of gasoline coming from a more costly source of crude.

I don't see the connection with commodities traders, as it appears to me to be a natural economic process. Going back to the previous paragraph, it's not easy to see ourselves (collectively) as the party at least somewhat at fault. How do commodities traders fit in here?

Rick

The oil prices are way out of line with what would be expected due to supply and demand. Part of it is due to the falling dollar. The commodities traders are pumping money into oil ostensibly as a "hedge", but a lot of it is mere pump and dump. This article (along with its sequel) from Business Week explains the situation quite well (and no, it's not an April fool joke, I have been reading the same thing in the finance pages for months).

Excerpt:

This is the new oil paradigm. No matter what happens, it is used to justify the commodities market's contention that oil prices just aren't high enough: In one week we add 7.4 million barrels of oil to stock in reserve and yet the price goes up almost $4 a barrel. Then the very next week our reserves fall because of fog, and the price goes up another $2.37. But the only people who still claim to be stunned by what's happening in oil are the analysts quoted by the media that cover the industry.

Ed Wallace is spot on here.

[weescot]

Here in Abu Dhabi, believe it or not, they are already investing serious research into alternative energy sources - something else they have plenty of - Mr Sun

But the best perk of living here is not just the cheap fuel and the sun - it is the diving in Musandam, Oman. I saw a total of 8 stingrays today all in the same place, plus several others under some rocks. We were 4 very excited divers Incredible. The site is called Octopus rock, but we have renamed it stingray central Sorry, slightly off thread but too cool not to share.

I read somewhere that gasoline in Dubai is about 50 cents a gallon. Is that true? And great diving too? Lets all move there. That will teach them not to charge us high prices for oil.

How about showing us some pics of those dive sites.

Yes, its about that. I'l tell you when I start filling up after I buy my new car

No pictures as no camera yet. Availability limited here so will probably mail order - recommendations welcome. Please PM me! Will start a thread when I have pictures to share. The diving is pretty good on thre omani side- conditions vary - viz last month was only 3m. this weekend it was 15m +. Arabia Sea is shallow and little to see. But nothing compares to my year diving in Egypt

[shadragon]

No pictures as no camera yet. Availability limited here so will probably mail order - recommendations welcome. Please PM me! Will start a thread when I have pictures to share. The diving is pretty good on thre omani side- conditions vary - viz last month was only 3m. this weekend it was 15m +. Arabia Sea is shallow and little to see. But nothing compares to my year diving in Egypt

I actually just bought this one:

Sony DSC-H3/B

I got a great deal on it as we bought two for work, but they screwed up and it was for the same department so I bought the spare from the company. The U/W case for it is only $400 from Ikelite as well. Low light shooting is respectable. May be taking it down south with me if I can get the case in time.

[BubbleBoy]

But the only people who still claim to be stunned by what's happening in oil are the analysts quoted by the media that cover the industry.
[/i][/indent]Ed Wallace is spot on here.

The funny thing is, a lot of those analysts who say that current high oil prices don't make fundamental sense sit about five doors down the hall from the traders who are buying futures contracts with both fists.

It's always hard to tell with these Wall Street gurus whether they are talking the market or their position.

Edited by BubbleBoy, 28 April 2008 - 05:15 AM.

[BubbleBoy]

Some funny (or maybe not so funny) pics I found on the net.

[Bubble2Bubble]

BubbleBoy I Agree WTF

Heres is my new spin on things..
Obviously OPEC and the other leaders of Oil prices are not scuba divers, otherwise the World would be at peace and in harmony

Sense nothing has changed for the better sense this original post, I decided to seek counsel from one of our counties smartest people by default, because his late Mother which everyone knows was his sista graduated from 9th grade. So I went over to Odell's house and ask him for a consultation. O wise and Wonderful Odell can you answer this question?

Why are Gas Prices So High ?

He put down his corn cob pipe and said...Mike I want you to go home and do this math calculation...take this number and times it by this number and add miles to travel then add time to travel those miles, then put them in a box and do the hokey poky and shake it all around ..and thats what its all about K..

O TY TY O Wise Odell !!!!

So I went home and did what he said.. BTW doing the hokey poky at 47 is not easy

Bottom Line aka Answer

I wouldn't walk or have time to walk the 15 miles that I can do in my car for $4.00!

This has temporarily made me feel better about the current Gas Prices..

I hope this helps You to.

Mike

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

BTB has it right. As long is we value our time higher than current gas prices, we'll all just pay it and keep going with our lives, economizing where we can by "driving smart". Prices won't keep me from going diving several times a year -- I'll just give up something else if I have to, so I can afford higher travel prices!

Our country is just in the beginning stages of finding good alternative sources, and at this stage the alternatives are more expensive than the current gas situation for most people.

[JusMe]

Two things no one has brought up:

There is no real shortage, it's strictly GREED driving this.

The other end of it is China and their desire to modernize as quickly as possible so they are buying up more fuels as well as supplies from all around the world. They have driven up prices on cement, wood and many other supplies because they are trying to build a country of freeways to match or beat ours here in the US. They are also building over 70 dams at the same time and it's affecting us here in the US so we can't get cement so quickly for our projects and it's much more expensive now because the Chinese are buying up all the cement they can from around thew world to make their new freeways for their military and their burgeoning populations making enough money to buy cars now by the millions so they give us a run for our money in the "DEMAND" side for almost all supplies.

China is bent on making it complete as soon as possible and they think they will be the biggest and best country in the world. I lived in Russia so I learned first hand that the only reason they were a super power is because they left the people behind and built such a huge military. In reality Russia is still a third world nation and that's a fact.

Life is so different there it's almost unbelievable and they have no real freeways in their country at all even after all these years. The only real freeways I saw were looping around and through Moscow.

Even in the cities they have some public bathrooms you have to pay about ten rubles to use, (right now it's about 23 rubles to a dollar), and sometimes they provide you with a little toilet paper you need to take a few squares in with you from the window you pay at or bring your own toilet paper with you. A lot of these public toilets are (sometimes a stall) with a hole in the floor and a tile on each side shaped as a foot to place your feet on as you then squat to use it. Most people just go in the bushes and relieve themselves there even in the cities.

It blew my mind when I was with my gf and she went behind some bushes in front of a big building in Vladimir and just turned around, dropped trou and relieved herself right there in broad daylight. She laughed and said this is Russia. Ha haha The first day there we were driving five hours from Moscow to Suzdal, (about 200 kilometers), and stopped at a gas station along the way. I asked where the bathroom was and she laughed and pointed at the woods and said you're in Russia now. Then she walked over there and took care of business herself.

Anyways... that's my two cents worth so I'll hush for now and get down off the crate for now.

See ya'll laters.

Jus Me

Edited by JusMe, 23 June 2008 - 12:44 AM.

[peterbj7]

Here in Belize we're currently paying about US$6:50/US gallon, and that's scheduled to rise to at least US$7:50 in the next two or three months. I walk or cycle everywhere here, but when I need to leave the island then I'm a hostage to fuel prices (all local air fares are going up in July) and of course my major expense with dive boats is fuel. I'll have to raise prices shortly and I only hope other operators do the same. Trouble is some have very deep pockets and don't mind making a loss for a while if that means they lose some of their competition.

I have a car in the UK that gets driven about once a year, though the costs involved in getting it legal each time are rising fast and may not be economic much longer. Fuel there is rising to £1:50/litre, which I believe is almost US$11/US gallon. Car taxes are rising very fast as well, and many people there are stopping using their cars. Trouble is, public transport is nowadays pretty poor quality, totally dis-integrated, and extremely expensive. And at the same time household bills are rising very fast and incomes are static or dropping - 1/3 million people will lose their jobs this year. All in all a pretty dire situation which the politicians don't have a clue how to solve.

My brother bought a car last year that does around 10 miles to a US gallon on a run - more for local use. I haven't asked him if he's using it much.

Edited by peterbj7, 23 June 2008 - 09:41 AM.

[georoc01]

http://capwiz.com/so...lertid=11571321

[Geek]

While it may feel good to find someone to blame for what's going on with oil, e.g. OPEC, speculators, oil companies, the guy behind the tree, the fact is this problem has been obvious since 1973 when the first energy crisis hit. So YOU and I have had over 30 years to get ready for it.

Have you done anything in the past 30 years to prepare? I haven't so you can blame me if you want.

Instead of talking about who caused it, wouldn't it be more productive to discuss what you are going to do about it?

I liked the picture of the trike. What is that and where can I get one?

[Bubble2Bubble]

Geek

Instead of talking about who caused it, wouldn't it be more productive to discuss what you are going to do about it?

Good point
Just try changing your car/truck/suv air filter and fuel filter and see how that little investment pays off in the long run. Like Landlocked Dive Nut said... I am cutting back on other things so I can spend more time diving, JusMe hit a home run by pointing out that its a buyers market and with China and now India coming online with new gasoline car drivers the demand is getting higher. Peter I totally agree with you because I am a small business owner and I just had to pass on the higher fuel prices to my customers and I am worried that they will think that I am just another company blaming higher prices for my service. I'm starting to get Real with Reality and on my next scuba trip I will travel by Train and save a fortune in travel exspenses.
No real answers here just divers speaking there minds and sharing ideas


Mike

Edited by Bubble2Bubble, 11 July 2008 - 08:32 PM.

[Hipshot]

While it may feel good to find someone to blame for what's going on with oil, e.g. OPEC, speculators, oil companies, the guy behind the tree, the fact is this problem has been obvious since 1973 when the first energy crisis hit. So YOU and I have had over 30 years to get ready for it.

Have you done anything in the past 30 years to prepare? I haven't so you can blame me if you want.

Instead of talking about who caused it, wouldn't it be more productive to discuss what you are going to do about it?

If we’re talking solutions here, the thing that comes to me is that we (USA) need something about the equivalent of the Manhattan Project, only for energy independence. We need to pull out the stops and make serious, high priority actions for energy conservation, new sources of fossil fuels, and alternatives to fossil fuels.

It’s likely that everybody will find something they won’t like about such a plan, but the fact is that all of these things are necessary, and they’re necessary now. We may have to curtail noncommercial use of poor mileage vehicles, intensify our efforts at extracting crude oil, develop oil shale as a resource, and increase our use of nuclear, wind, solar and geothermal energy. There is no single or “magic bullet” solution.

Just my 2 psi.

Rick

[Geek]

While it may feel good to find someone to blame for what's going on with oil, e.g. OPEC, speculators, oil companies, the guy behind the tree, the fact is this problem has been obvious since 1973 when the first energy crisis hit. So YOU and I have had over 30 years to get ready for it.

Have you done anything in the past 30 years to prepare? I haven't so you can blame me if you want.

Instead of talking about who caused it, wouldn't it be more productive to discuss what you are going to do about it?

If we’re talking solutions here, the thing that comes to me is that we (USA) need something about the equivalent of the Manhattan Project, only for energy independence. We need to pull out the stops and make serious, high priority actions for energy conservation, new sources of fossil fuels, and alternatives to fossil fuels.

It’s likely that everybody will find something they won’t like about such a plan, but the fact is that all of these things are necessary, and they’re necessary now. We may have to curtail noncommercial use of poor mileage vehicles, intensify our efforts at extracting crude oil, develop oil shale as a resource, and increase our use of nuclear, wind, solar and geothermal energy. There is no single or “magic bullet” solution.

Just my 2 psi.

Rick

I'm not talking about a Manhattan Project. I am talking about personal actions. What will you do differently in order to solve this problem? Will you trade your car for a smaller one? Will you drive less? Will you increase the air pressure in your tires? Will you vote based on this issue?

Here is what I am doing: I have increased the pressure in my tires to the maximum and slowed down. I am still trying to figure out how much gas I am saving, but it looks like around 15%. (I want to hit 30 mpg in a car that has EPA numbers of 17/24 and I just might succeed.) I will go for smaller vehicles in the future, but that is more of an intermediate term action for me. I am very interested in PHEV developments. Short term I am researching tires to see if replacing my tires with different tires pays off. I am not a "one issue" voter, but this one is high on my list for the November elections.

I am open to other ideas for personal changes as well. These are just the best ideas I have had so far.

[Hipshot]

I'm not talking about a Manhattan Project. I am talking about personal actions. What will you do differently in order to solve this problem? Will you trade your car for a smaller one? Will you drive less? Will you increase the air pressure in your tires? Will you vote based on this issue?

Here is what I am doing: I have increased the pressure in my tires to the maximum and slowed down. I am still trying to figure out how much gas I am saving, but it looks like around 15%. (I want to hit 30 mpg in a car that has EPA numbers of 17/24 and I just might succeed.) I will go for smaller vehicles in the future, but that is more of an intermediate term action for me. I am very interested in PHEV developments. Short term I am researching tires to see if replacing my tires with different tires pays off. I am not a "one issue" voter, but this one is high on my list for the November elections.

I am open to other ideas for personal changes as well. These are just the best ideas I have had so far.

No arguments here. What you're doing is all part of what needs to be done to make the USA energy independent. I was just looking a bit more macroscopically.

Rick



The future belongs to those who give the next generation reason to hope.--Teilhard de Chardin