Jump to content

  • These forums are for "after booking" trip communications, socializing, and/or trip questions ONLY.
  • You will NOT be able to book a trip, buy add-ons, or manage your trip by logging in here. Please login HERE to do any of those things.

Photo

Presumed fatal great white shark attack on swimmer in SoCal


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 drbill

drbill

    I spend too much time on line

  • SD Partners
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,486 posts
  • Location:10-200 feet under, Santa Catalina Island
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Rescue
  • Logged Dives:who's counting, definitely four digits

Posted 25 April 2008 - 09:02 PM

Not long after I sat myself down at the computer to do my tour of the SCUBA-related Internet sites, I started reading reports about a fatal shark attack on a swimmer off Solano Beach north of San Diego. The initial reports were speculative and quite sketchy, not to mention contradictory. I tried to make sense of them.

As I was doing so, I received a call from KNX news radio in Los Angeles asking if, as a marine biologist, I'd be willing to be interviewed about the attack. I told them that since I had no first-hand knowledge of the situation and that initial reports conflicted, I could only speculate. Good enough!

The hosts called and I listened to a few minutes of their interview with Ralph Collier, an internationally recognized shark expert and far more knowledgeable than I about them. Then it was my turn. It seemed the questions were somewhat motivated by the usual misconceptions and I tried to correct those and create a more rationale evaluation of what might have happened. The hosts were quite good. I talked about the great white's natural history, migration and feeding as well as popular myths about shark attacks.

I was asked to speculate on what shark would have done this. Based on the attack focusing on the rear of both legs, and the severity of it (my understanding is that both legs were close to being severed), I suggested it was a great white in the 12-15 foot range. They generally attack from behind and below, and strike the victim with tremendous force as occurred in this attack. The fact that both legs were taken into the maw and severely injured suggested a maw and therefore shark size in the range I suggested.

Following my interview, lifeguards from the beach were interviewed and countered my assumption. They suggested it was not a great white, but a blue or a mako. Blues in our area are very scarce due to overfishing, and they tend to be in the 3-6 ft range rather than the 12-16 ft giants seen in the central Pacific Ocean. Makos generally don't attack in the manner suggested in this case, and focus on fish when they do.

Fortunately Dr. Richard Rosenblatt of Scripps came on after the lifeguards. He is a well known expert on fish including sharks, and was on the scene with first hand knowledge of the injuries suffered by the deceased. His assessment was that it was most definitely a great white in the range of 12-17 ft.

To me the most interesting things about this incident were the following. First, the attack occurred over a shallow (20-30 ft) bottom which left little vertical range for the shark to accelerate in. They normally attack over rocky bottoms and from deeper depths, but I have observed and heard of attacks on sea lions over sandy bottoms in water even shallower than this. Second, the 66-year old swimmer was training for a triathlon along with nine other swimmers. He was reportedly in the middle of the pack. I would have assumed the shark would attack one of the swimmers on the group's periphery instead of one in the center... but then I don't think like a shark (of either type).

Of course condolences to the family and friends of the victim.

#2 pmarie

pmarie

    People are starting to get to know me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 496 posts
  • Location:Central East Fl
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:Playing at Divemaster
  • Logged Dives:500+

Posted 25 April 2008 - 09:38 PM

Interestingly enough, I had heard about this at dinner this evening. Someone put a different perspective on "attack." They stated, "How can a shark attack when a human is in their environment, they would only consider sharks attacking if they were to come up out of the water onto the beaches, into our environment." "That's an attack."

Just thought I'd share that quirky thinking.

#3 DandyDon

DandyDon

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,340 posts
  • Location:West Texas High Desert
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:AOW / Nitrox / Scientific / Rescue / TDI Decompression
  • Logged Dives:351 dives, mostly ocean

Posted 25 April 2008 - 09:53 PM

Interesting, Bill. Sad loss for the swimmer, but the landlord does collect...

Next time you get such a call, you might ask: "That depends: Are you going to follow my interview with questions to lifeguards who haven't studied sharks 1/10th as much as I have..."
What would Patton do...? Posted Image

Yeah I know: I've been branded a non-group person - doesn't play well with others. I am so upset. Posted Image Let me know if you want to have some fun, without the drama - I'm good for that.

#4 drbill

drbill

    I spend too much time on line

  • SD Partners
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,486 posts
  • Location:10-200 feet under, Santa Catalina Island
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Rescue
  • Logged Dives:who's counting, definitely four digits

Posted 25 April 2008 - 11:41 PM

I was amused by the lifeguard's apparent comments. I didn't actually hear them, but was told about their interview by a local lifeguard and SCUBA instructor friend of mine. They interviewed a wide range of people on this. In fact, when I asked if I could get an audio copy of the show, he said it had been going constantly for eight hours (as of the point I asked). WOW. Thankfully they interviewed a number of experts with more knowledge about sharks than I possess.

#5 DandyDon

DandyDon

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,340 posts
  • Location:West Texas High Desert
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:AOW / Nitrox / Scientific / Rescue / TDI Decompression
  • Logged Dives:351 dives, mostly ocean

Posted 26 April 2008 - 12:12 AM

I don't think there is a date on this, but this seems to be the story

KNX 1070 News
Killer Shark Attack @ SD Beach

SOLANA BEACH, Calif. (AP) — A shark believed to be a great white killed a 66-year-old swimmer with a single, giant bite across both legs Friday as the man trained with a group of triathletes, authorities and witnesses said.

Dave Martin, a retired veterinarian from Solana Beach, was attacked at San Diego County's Tide Beach around 7 a.m., authorities and family friend Rob Hill said.

Martin was taken to a lifeguard station for emergency treatment but was pronounced dead at the scene, according to a statement on the Solana Beach city Web site. His injuries crossed both thighs, San Diego County sheriff's Sgt. Randy Webb said in a news release.

Scripps Institution of Oceanography shark expert Richard Rosenblatt says the shark was probably a great white between 12 and 17 feet long.

``It looks like the shark came up, bit him, and swam away,'' said Dismas Abelman, the Solana Beach deputy fire chief.

There was a single bite across both of Martin's legs, Abelman said.

The attack took place about 150 yards offshore. Several swimmers wearing wetsuits were in a group when the shark attacked, lifeguard Craig Miller said. Two swimmers were about 20 yards ahead of the man when they heard him scream for help. They turned around and dragged him back to shore.

Swimmers were ordered out of the water for a 17-mile stretch around the attack site and county authorities sent up helicopters to scan the waters for the shark. Eight miles of beach were closed.

``The shark is still in the area. We're sure of that,'' Mayor Joe Kellejian said.

Hill, a member of the Triathlon Club of San Diego, said he was running on the beach while about nine other members were in the water when the attack took place.

``They saw him come up out of the water, scream 'shark,' flail his arms and go back under,'' Hill said. ``The flesh was just hanging,'' and Martin may have bled to death before he left the water, Hill said.

A witness, Ira Opper, described the victim as ``burly and athletic.'' He said the man was wearing a black wetsuit that was shredded on both legs.

Martin's relatives visited the lifeguard station in small groups, emerging in tears, before his body was transported to the county medical examiner's office. A man who identified himself as Martin's son answered the telephone at Martin's home a few blocks from the beach but declined to comment on the attack.

Club members had been meeting at the beach for at least six years and never had seen a shark, Hill said.

However, Hill said he saw a seal or sea lion on the beach earlier this week. Miller said a seal pup was found on the beach Friday morning before the attack and was taken to a marine animal rescue center.

The shark may have confused the wet-suited swimmers with his prey, Hill said.

Rosenblatt, the shark expert, said white sharks travel through the area, and the way the man was attacked and the ``massive'' but clean wounds ``sounds like what a white shark would do.''

White sharks hunt along the bottom, look for seal silhouettes above and then rise to attack, he said.

``A human swimmer is not too unlike a seal,'' he said.

Shark attacks are extremely rare. There were 71 confirmed unprovoked cases worldwide last year, up from 63 in 2006, according to the University of Florida. Only one 2007 attack, in the South Pacific, was fatal.

The last fatal shark attack in California, according to data from the state Department of Fish and Game, took place in 2004, when a man skin diving for abalone was attacked by a great white shark off the coast of Mendocino County. On Aug. 19, 2003, a great white killed a woman who was swimming at Avila Beach in San Luis Obispo County on the central California coast.


What would Patton do...? Posted Image

Yeah I know: I've been branded a non-group person - doesn't play well with others. I am so upset. Posted Image Let me know if you want to have some fun, without the drama - I'm good for that.

#6 BubbleBoy

BubbleBoy

    Everyone knows me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 749 posts
  • Location:Randolph, NJ
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:AOW + Deep, Wreck, Drysuit, Navigation, Night, Rescue, Nitrox Specialties
  • Logged Dives:300+

Posted 26 April 2008 - 06:16 AM

I first saw this announced on MSNBC yesterday. It got me wondering if the wetsuit the man was wearing might have had anything to do with the severity of the attack. I do believe that sharks will abort a mistaken attack like this as soon as they realize their error. Many shark attacks, even by Great Whites, do not result in such severe injury. In those cases, the shark seems to abort at almost the instant of contact, before they bite down or shake their mistaken victim.

My totally speculative theory is that when the victim is wearing a wetsuit, the signals that the shark receives (smells, taste, whatever) may be delayed, resulting in the attack progressing further before the shark aborts. Maybe neoprene feels a little more like seal blubber to the shark, so they have to bite down before realizing it’s not.

As I said, just total speculation.
BB

When you make fish laugh, they can't bite you.

#7 dustbowl diver

dustbowl diver

    "Charlie"

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,028 posts
  • Location:Pflugerville, Tx
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:AOW
  • Logged Dives:139

Posted 26 April 2008 - 06:49 AM

I first heard this on the radio at some point before noon yesterday. While I didn't take any time researching for a newsreport ( I suspected there would be a swarm of stories from "experts" as far away as (insert city here)). My condolences to the family and friends of this tragedy!
"Yesterday's gone, tomorrow never knows, today will never be the same again!"-Jibe

#8 ScubaStacy

ScubaStacy

    People are starting to get to know me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 228 posts
  • Location:Sacramento, CA
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:AOW Rescue.
  • Logged Dives:190+

Posted 26 April 2008 - 07:54 AM

I was home sick yesterday and heard about this via an emergency 'flash' report on my blackberry sent out by our State Warning Center - usually reserved for fires, earthquakes and terrorist incidents! I thought that was a little strange. The beaches and waters in Solano were cleared, with Sheriffs helicopters searching the coast for the shark. We also sent a Coast Guard H-60 to help clear the beaches and presumably to search for the shark.

All this seems a bit over the top and reactionary - especially at the state level and for my agency! The ocean is where sharks live, right? It's an election year, so I guess we should be used to this type of thing in CA!


Stacy
I just want to be underwater!

#9 BubbleBoy

BubbleBoy

    Everyone knows me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 749 posts
  • Location:Randolph, NJ
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:AOW + Deep, Wreck, Drysuit, Navigation, Night, Rescue, Nitrox Specialties
  • Logged Dives:300+

Posted 26 April 2008 - 08:40 AM

...The beaches and waters in Solano were cleared, with Sheriffs helicopters searching the coast for the shark. We also sent a Coast Guard H-60 to help clear the beaches and presumably to search for the shark.

All this seems a bit over the top and reactionary - especially at the state level and for my agency! The ocean is where sharks live, right?...

Stacy


I kind of had the same thoughts at first, particularly if the goal of finding the shark is to kill it. But, I guess you have to consider the emotional impact (it really is sad for this guy and his family) and also the liability factor (what if they don't do anything and another shark attack occurs an hour later).

There is also my second totally speculative theory to consider. Maybe some sharks are just dumber than others. I've extrapolated that theory from my observations of the human species in my office over the last six months.
BB

When you make fish laugh, they can't bite you.

#10 Divegirl412

Divegirl412

    Everyone knows me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 817 posts
  • Location:San Diego, CA
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:Rescue
  • Logged Dives:500+

Posted 26 April 2008 - 12:22 PM

...The beaches and waters in Solano were cleared, with Sheriffs helicopters searching the coast for the shark. We also sent a Coast Guard H-60 to help clear the beaches and presumably to search for the shark.

All this seems a bit over the top and reactionary - especially at the state level and for my agency! The ocean is where sharks live, right?...

Stacy


I kind of had the same thoughts at first, particularly if the goal of finding the shark is to kill it. But, I guess you have to consider the emotional impact (it really is sad for this guy and his family) and also the liability factor (what if they don't do anything and another shark attack occurs an hour later).

There is also my second totally speculative theory to consider. Maybe some sharks are just dumber than others. I've extrapolated that theory from my observations of the human species in my office over the last six months.



All reports I have heard today state that the goal of "finding" the GW is to "make sure it is not heading back into shore towards any groups of people". After watching how easily these beautiful creatures disappear and blend into the water around them last year, I highly doubt that is a reasonable goal. As Scuba Stacy says, an election year in highly dramatic California. And it and others are probably still around, after all this is along their migratory path from No Cal to Baja Cal. This area in Solana Beach is also just a bit north along the shoreline from La Jolla where we have a "children's pool" that has been taken over by birthing seals and their pups for several years (even more controversy there we won't go into!!). and it is more than likely that the GW was doing what it does naturally, looking for seals, and very sadly this happened.

Most of the coverage, thank goodness has focused on the fact that this is a highly unusual occurrence, and the attack was because Dr Martin was unfortunately most likely mistaken for a seal. I have still had a few eye-rolling moments as I listen to their dramatic stories, but it has not yet been as bad as it could have been. It is very tragic, and I can't imagine what his family and friends are feeling right now. I feel very sorry for their loss... any sudden loss is especially difficult to deal with, not to take into account how catastrophic this was, and the fact that they will have to relive this every time a new story is done.

Several people have headed back into the water already.. the clearing of the water is suggested, not mandatory. Unfortunately, we still have media from out of town headed here. So it will be interesting to see how things are presented as time goes along. But as one shark expert said, you should be more afraid that a vending machine will fall on you then that you will be attacked by a shark. And thank God for the laid back surfers etc on the beaches (and back in the waves) being interviewed who are keeping it rational, saying very simply... we know they are out there, we know the risks, we choose to play in their environment, and accept the risks thereof.

Rosa

#11 Scubawishes

Scubawishes

    Meeting folks

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Location:NYC
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:Open Water Certification
  • Logged Dives:200ish

Posted 26 April 2008 - 03:33 PM

I can't imagine why they consider a shark attack a necessary be on high alert emergency warning to all. Don’t get me wrong, it’s interesting to know about and of course unfortunately tragic for the individual and their loved ones, but warning wires aren’t pertinent or relevant. People are weird.
~K



I was home sick yesterday and heard about this via an emergency 'flash' report on my blackberry sent out by our State Warning Center - usually reserved for fires, earthquakes and terrorist incidents! I thought that was a little strange. The beaches and waters in Solano were cleared, with Sheriffs helicopters searching the coast for the shark. We also sent a Coast Guard H-60 to help clear the beaches and presumably to search for the shark.

All this seems a bit over the top and reactionary - especially at the state level and for my agency! The ocean is where sharks live, right? It's an election year, so I guess we should be used to this type of thing in CA!


Stacy


~K

#12 drbill

drbill

    I spend too much time on line

  • SD Partners
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,486 posts
  • Location:10-200 feet under, Santa Catalina Island
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Rescue
  • Logged Dives:who's counting, definitely four digits

Posted 26 April 2008 - 07:50 PM

We hear talk about sharks becoming "maneaters" (why don't they eat women, too?) after "tasting blood" for the first time. I wonder about this "myth"/fact. For some species which like the taste of humans this may be the case. What about for great whites whose attacks generally are not fatal? What if they bite a human, find the taste to be... distasteful, and learn from that to be more discerning in their choice of prey in the future? Hmmm... I sense a million dollar research grant.

#13 ScubaStacy

ScubaStacy

    People are starting to get to know me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 228 posts
  • Location:Sacramento, CA
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:AOW Rescue.
  • Logged Dives:190+

Posted 27 April 2008 - 09:31 AM

We hear talk about sharks becoming "maneaters" (why don't they eat women, too?) after "tasting blood" for the first time. I wonder about this "myth"/fact. For some species which like the taste of humans this may be the case. What about for great whites whose attacks generally are not fatal? What if they bite a human, find the taste to be... distasteful, and learn from that to be more discerning in their choice of prey in the future? Hmmm... I sense a million dollar research grant.



I'm volunteering to be your (paid) assistant on that research project when you get the grant! And CA sharks are probably weird anyway, so we'd need to get a broad cross section from around the world. Yeah? :birthday:
I just want to be underwater!

#14 weescot

weescot

    Everyone knows me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 838 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:Rescue Diver
  • Logged Dives:500+

Posted 27 April 2008 - 09:47 AM

I even heard about this tragedy driving back from a diving trip in Oman yesterday evening. Four divers all came to the same conclusion - a freak incident that could happen to anyone exploring the ocean. Shark "attacks" are rare but still morbidly and curiously facinating to everyone - which is why it is also headline news in the Middle East (and everywhere else no doubt). The causes will be debated for a long time I expect.

My condolences to the family also.
Please credit Avatar to ScubaShafer

#15 Scubawishes

Scubawishes

    Meeting folks

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Location:NYC
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:Open Water Certification
  • Logged Dives:200ish

Posted 27 April 2008 - 11:25 AM

Well said, & I agree, but still see no reason for them to sent out like Amber Alerts. kwim?
~K



I even heard about this tragedy driving back from a diving trip in Oman yesterday evening. Four divers all came to the same conclusion - a freak incident that could happen to anyone exploring the ocean. Shark "attacks" are rare but still morbidly and curiously facinating to everyone - which is why it is also headline news in the Middle East (and everywhere else no doubt). The causes will be debated for a long time I expect.

My condolences to the family also.


~K




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users