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Looking to upgrade from a digital to a DSLR camera


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#31 EASY

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 12:50 AM

Karl,

Unless you plan on your photos being displayed on a billboard, anything over 8mp is not very useful to the average photographer. I believe the lense is the most important investment, closely followed by lighting equipment. If you buy a Canon or Nikon SLR today, I guarantee you will be able to find it on eBay 10 or more years from now. My Canon A-1 that I bought in 1979 can still be readily found and still takes exceptional photographs. The only reason that I recently upgraded to a Canon 40D, from a 20D, was because of the 3" display on the back. I couldn't resist this temptation. The reason that I didn't go with the DX 1G was because I could see myself outgrowing it very quickly. I have training in photojournalism and want the photo taken instantly when I press the shutter release and as often as I press the shutter release. I also wanted the wide selection of lenses available for the Canon. I've been shooting underwater with the tiny Canon 870SD, using only its internal flash with pretty good results. I've missed a lot of photo opportunities because of the shutter lag or while waiting for the flash to recharge. If you are shooting mostly still life images in macro, this probably isn't that great of an issue.
Be forwarned that this info is coming from someone who knows next to nothing about underwater photography, except closer is better. However, I do know that good SLR cameras, digital or film, don't become obsolete as quickly as one may believe. Maybe when they come out with the 1 ounce, 1/2 inch thick, 100mp camera with a 10" live view display, I'll have to change my thinking on that. :teeth:

During my many weeks of research prior to buying my current camera, I narrowed my search down to the DX 1G, the Canon 40D, and the Nikon D300. I also considered the 5-yr-old Canon 5D because of the full sensor size and the ability to use my current 17mm lens without the 1.6x conversion factor. The $225 Canon 870SD, with $160 housing, and $300 external strobe would probably surpass your expectations. Check out my gallery and remember that they were shot without an external strobe. Everything was shot in underwater mode with flash always on. In the end I decided to go with the latest technology and stayed with Canon due to brand loyalty. I hope this helped, as writing it was a sort of therapy for me to help justify the 3rd mortgage on my house to pay for my new toy. :diver:

In the end, the photographer's eye and his/her imagination are the most important pieces of equipment. Happy shooting! Eric :diver:

Edited by EASY, 10 June 2008 - 12:52 AM.


#32 Guest_TexasStarfish_*

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 06:53 AM

Eric,
So you are happy with the 40D? That's what I am looking at, either that or the D200 or D300, depending on what is in the same price range? Would love to hear your feedback on the 40D. Is there any other reason beside brand loyalty why you chose it?

Thanks!


:teeth:

#33 EASY

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:58 AM

Eric,
So you are happy with the 40D? That's what I am looking at, either that or the D200 or D300, depending on what is in the same price range? Would love to hear your feedback on the 40D. Is there any other reason beside brand loyalty why you chose it?

Thanks!


:teeth:


Hi Victoria,

Mainly, I chose it because I have a lot invested in Canon lenses and flash guns. It's also under a $1,000 now with the Canon instant rebate. Nikon has always intrigued me, but I've been shooting Canon since I was 13-yrs-old and they make awesome cameras and lenses.

The following review sold me on it: 40D Review
This review tempted me to go to the dark side: D300 Review

If you go with Nikon, you should go ahead and invest in the D300. The 3 inch screen is a wonderful feature and I think you would be kicking yourself for not paying a little extra for a much improved camera.

I just got the 40D a little over a week ago and the system stayed in my vehicle while I went diving with my little point and shoot. I was a bit intimidated by it and hadn't had a chance to familiarize myself with everything. Tomorrow, I will give it a go and let you know what happens. I need to spend most of the day, today, insuring it! This hobby is NOT for the squeamish! :diver:
eric :diver:

Edited by EASY, 10 June 2008 - 10:04 AM.


#34 peterbj7

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 10:52 AM

I usually use the 60mm for macro (rarely now I use the 105mm).....For wide angle I now use the Tokina 10-17mm

On what body? The effective focal length depends on the degree of sensor crop.
Sorry, I've just looked back and see you have a Nikon D80, which has a 1.5 cropped sensor. So your 60mm would translate into 40mm on my FF camera (I think - or have I got that round the wrong way?).

And your wide angle would equate to 15 - about 25. Can you use the zoom under water, or do you fix the focal length before you close the housing?

Edited by peterbj7, 10 June 2008 - 10:56 AM.


#35 Scubatooth

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 03:17 PM

Fordan - excellent post, especially about the EF-S mount; i think the only reason i havent gotten the 10-22 is that I will be moving to a FF camera this year and the 40D was bought with the thinking it would be a back up body to the FF camera as now my 20D is off to lifepixel for a infrared conversion for a special project(not UW though) i have up coming and so that i can save some money on my film bill as Infrared film is $15-$20 a roll before processing.

I will 2nd the use of image stabilized lenses because of the advantages they offer, as there is nothing like shooting from the side of a helicopter doing 180 miles and hour at sunset and be able to get a tack sharp. The trade off for these advantages are that the lenses are 30-40% more; IE 70-200 F2.8 L IS is 1700 while the 70-200 without image stabilization is 1200 similar % differences with the F4 version

Scubafanatic - I normally carry one spare camera just incase i flood it, but this is only with the oly c5050 and SP350 cameras i have and shoot with now. Now when i plan to upgrade i will sell off the pieces i can to help pay for the upgrade, with the understanding that I wont get what i paid for it, its just how it goes. When it comes to DSLRs for the most part the only part that cant move forward is the housing and the camera as everything else (focus rings, extension rings, domeports, sync cords, strobes,etc). Yes housing a DSLR is expensive but the quality jump between PnS and DSLR is considerable and can help create prints that are in excess of 20x30 with a well shot and processed 5mp file ( a 8mp sensor is capable of in the ball park of a 30x40). For the most part unless you are a working pro or a very very very serious amatuer for shooting underwater a system like the SP350 or the S&S one will do fine.

As for the 50mp comment I doubt the will ever happen on crop frame DSLRs as the camera designers are starting to run into some limitations of the crop sensors as to resolution quality vs image noise and sharpness. Then the other limitations that are coming up are the resolving limits of the lenses with high mp sensors which is requiring a whole new generation of lenses that are more expensive then the current batch of TOL lenses. i realistically seeing 15mp being the lim
it for 1.5/1.6 crop factor cameras and mid to up 20 mp cameras for the full frame cameras. Now there are already cameras on the market with 40+ mp sensors (Medium format backs) but your average diver isnt going to invest 50K for the camera and sensor back and then anouther 20-30K for the housing and other things, unless they stand to recover the outlay.

Easy - Amen on the sensor megapixel to print size comment (as i posted above) its amazing the market spin and less then half truths that people fall for and think that because a new camera is on the market means they need a new camera, when they have a good one right then. This is why till recently i had shot with a 20D since 2005 without issue and produced prints that you where not able to tell the difference between the 35mm prints, 8mp prints in quality even up to the 20x30 range. Some people where even surprised to learn that i wasnt shooting these tack sharp images with a some 5K + camera and lenses, but a camera that they thought were crap (they where shooting with the 5K+ camera and lens setups), it was funny to see the egg roll down there face as having the best camera in the world done mean much if you cant utilize it.

I also recently bought a 40D because of the instant rebate thats running right now, but it wasnt the mp rating that i bought it but it was for the features of livepreview (for studio shooting, and such) as well as the dust protection(which is a big problem with DSLRs) and a couple of other reasons(the 3" screen was one of them), in addition it was time to replace the 20D as it was three years old and has 50K shots on the shutter, so i sent it in for the shutter to be replaced and then now sending it to lifepixel so i can begin to work on a studio based infrared series. the 2 additional mp will be a bonus just not a requirement to the upgrade.

The other reason i only went with the 40D as opposed to the 5D as its reached its end of life and the replacement should be out soon (hopefully this fall) and theres not enough of a step in IQ and resolution to explain the 1k difference in price other then crop verus full frame. so until the new camera is out i will keep investing in my lens set up. Note I have shot with a 5D on several shoots where i have been assistant the main photographer since shortly after the camera came out and it produces some amazing images, it was just at the time (still in school on a limited budget) I didnt have it in the budget for a camera of 5D's caliber.


Texas Starfish
Im happy with the 40D so far as it is almost the same as my 20D (which was a great camera when it was released 4 years ago) but with the help of 2 generations newer hardware and processing, which shows in the build and finish as well as image output. The only nagging thing, but easily correctable is that the red channel tends to over saturate real easy and for the blue channel to be very flat (meaning a smaller tone range from high to low). These are a problem with shooting portraits because they can cause editting issues with skin tones, but both are correctable in camera with a custom function, but for the average shooter isnt going to notice the shift.

My loyalty to canon comes from the customer service they have provided me over the years as well as being highly responsive to feedback. Then addition to the good range of lenses from canon as well as 3rd parties really adds to the value. Then also i have a good selection of lenses already and it would cost me a small fortune to switch brands. Then Canon has a edge in the market as till recently they where the only manufacture with a full frame sensor camera on the market till nikon released the D3, but is still about 2x the price of the 5D. Then look at the sidelines of most major sporting events (especially at the upcoming Olympics this year) you see a sea of white lenses which are the trademark of Canon's L series professional len's.

Peterbj7 - Close on the crop format the 1.5x crop factor is a multiplier for the len so if a lens is natively a 20mm with the crop factor its going to be a 30mm, so that macro 60mm lens is in the 90mm range depending on the crop factor.

Im out for now

Tooth

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#36 EASY

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Posted 15 June 2008 - 12:58 PM

Easy - Amen on the sensor megapixel to print size comment Tooth!It took me a week, but I finally finished reading your post! :birthday: Nah, just kidding, you have provided some very sound information for all of us. I finally took my camera into the water last weekend with some mixed results. The first dive was with just the housing and strobes in order to check for leaks. I was all ready to go with camera and all, but the DM on the boat talked some sense into me. During the dive, my dive buddy lost her fin and after rescuing it, I somehow forgot about my gigantic camera rig as I helped her put her fin back on. Imagine the horror as I watched my beloved 3rd mortgage float towards the surface! :birthday: I slowly followed it towards the surface from 70' and stopped for my safety stop. As I watched and prayed that a boat wouldn't come out of nowhere and plow over my beloved new toy, the dive boat came to the rescue and I saw a hand lift it gently out of the water. At least I hoped it was MY dive boat. Anyway, humiliated, but not deterred, I loaded my camera in the housing and went for it on the second dive. I had a little hawksbill turtle and several HUMONGOUS green morey eels model for me and I shot away. I was trying to shoot in AV mode, but I was finding it impossible to adjust the aperture from f5.6. I eventually changed over to Program mode and started concentrating on composition. When I got back on the boat and reviewed what I had shot, I was extremely disappointed. Everything looked washed out and overexposed. I didn't even offer to share my photos with anybody else.Lightroom to the rescue! With a little WB adjustment and a little tweaking of exposure and levels, I got the shock of my life. Several of the photos were STUNNING! I couldn't believe how clear they were. It was obvious that I was overdoing it with the strobes and some of the photos were too overexposed to save. The details were just washed out. But, in 30 minutes of diving I came out with 4 or 5 photos that I'm very proud of and that makes me happy. :canada: Now, what I need from you, or anybody else, is some advice on a starting point for shooting in manual with my Sea&Sea YS-110 strobes. I had the power set to full and that was obviously way too much. Is there a good underwater photography manual that would help me out? I tend to be a trial and error kind of photographer, but with a strong current and only 30 to 45 minutes underwater at a time, it makes it difficult to play around with settings. Here's something else that happened that I find really funny. The DM emphatically told me that my 10-17mm lense wasn't going to work underwater. :birthday: He insisted that almost all underwater photography was done with 100mm lenses and he didn't know anyone who shot wide angle. He assured me I wouldn't get any good shots with my lense. I may not be the most technically sophisticated photographer, especially when it comes to underwater, but I do know composition! I can shoot wide angle with the best of them; now I just need to hone my exposure skills! I will be sending the DM my beautiful turtle shots. Later, Eric :birthday:

Attached Thumbnails

  • Turtle.jpg
  • Morey.jpg

Edited by EASY, 18 June 2008 - 05:41 AM.





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