113 replies to this topic

[Capn Jack]

I think the bigger question when it comes to octos is what kind do you like. Something inline on your inflator, a seperate hose or some type of gue configuration with a long hose?

Let's see how many folks I can stir up with a single post.

I use three different configurations, depending on what diving I'm doing.

For assisting in OW confined water classes, I conform to what the students have, which is a standard octo attached in the "triangle".
Biggest benefit here is lower student confusion and they can easily perform a skill using the standard "monkey see, monkey do" training model.
Secondary benefit is it is what the LDS sells, and makes him happy.

For OW dives 1-4 at the lake, I have my inline inflator/backup. I use it as a teaching tool to remind students to check their buddies / boat crowd since these are pretty common in recreational diving.
Big benefit here is learning to deal with different gear configurations.
Secondary benefit is it is what the LDS sells, and makes him happy.

For my own diving, I use the long hose primary with the necklaced secondary.
Big benefit here is I know from 3 personal experiences that OOA divers will take your primary out of your mouth, sometimes from behind, which gets your mask at the same time.
Secondary benefit is when you deploy the long hose, you have much more flexibility in dealing with the OOA diver if you need to do something besides a straight ascent.

What do I like?

I have to say the long hose is my favorite, although sometimes I want to rig my inline inflator/secondary just to shock and dismay the purists. Having an inline inflator/secondary does streamline you a bit, and reduce the number of hoses. For the statistical sadists, having one hose attached to two devices increases the impact of a failure. It is also a major PITA when you're breathing off of it, and trying to control the ascent of you and a not-too-happy OOA diver.

Realistically, most recreational divers aren't going to know you're going to donate your primary to them, so their initial confusion may exacerbate the situation. However, again, going back to personal experiences, the OOA diver is pretty happy that something is pushing compressed air into their lungs, no matter what configuration it came from.

Edited by Dive_Girl, 01 August 2008 - 11:20 AM.
Topic split from the unbalanced regulator thread, as it creates a great new discussion!

[georoc01]

The downside I personally have in going to a 7' long hose on my primary is the loss of the in line swivel which I find to be a nice feature on my reg. But the issue of an O-O-A diver going after your primary is a real one, and knowing where your octo is in that case without having to think about it is important in any configuration.

[Dive_Girl]

I think the bigger question when it comes to octos is what kind do you like. Something inline on your inflator, a seperate hose or some type of gue configuration with a long hose?

Let's see how many folks I can stir up with a single post.

You stirred good, so good I split this topic into its own discussion!

[Dive_Girl]

Realistically, most recreational divers aren't going to know you're going to donate your primary to them, so their initial confusion may exacerbate the situation. However, again, going back to personal experiences, the OOA diver is pretty happy that something is pushing compressed air into their lungs, no matter what configuration it came from.

Excellent point. Of the different set-ups you describe in your initial post, I dive in a similar fashion with two of them. Most times when teaching I have a yellow alternate that hangs in the "body triangle." When open water diving, I either have my teaching set-up on or I have my set-up with the long hose and also brief that I will donate my primary and pick up my alternate on my necklace.

Here's another question regarding octos (for those not incorporated with the BC inflator) to add to the mix.

Do you buy a nice full sized regulator for your alternate?
Do you buy the least expensive full sized regulator for your alternate?
Do you buy a slim lined regulator for your alternate? (the kind that breaths in any direction)

I had traditionally appreciated the third option above as I have more hose to work with and it can be flipped into a diver's mouth. A full sized regulator inevitably confusing and often times put in upside down which often delivers a mouth full of water and not air. The draw back is the lesser expensive slim lines I have had experience with do not take wear and tear well. The compromise for a long time was my expensive Poseidon reg which breathed in any direction but cost the same as a primary.

[Latitude Adjustment]

My set-up is DEW, I have a 7' hose on the primary and it's yellow so they can find it quickly and rip it out of my mouth In theory my reg can be flipped but the mouth piece wouldn't fit well upside down.
My pony feeds the inline second and my wing.

Edited by Latitude Adjustment, 01 August 2008 - 12:48 PM.

[secretsea18]

I use an inline reg on the BC inflater hose. I like it. It takes up less weight and space in my dive bag. I test it now and then, but I hope to NEVER need to use it. I check my pressure often, as well as those with whom I am diving, including the guide!

I don't dive with people who run out of air. How do you run out of air anyway?????

[PerroneFord]

I prefer the long hose config even when in open water. Just a personal diving choice. I donate the primary so my reg gets tested all dive. My backup is my own, and it also gets tested both dry and wet at the start of the dive, and at least once during the dive to ensure proper functioning at depth.

I don't really have a need to check my pressure often. Once during safety check at the start of the dive, once about 10 minutes into the dive, and once about halfway through the dive in open water, or as I get about 1/3 of the way through the dive in overheads. If everything jibes, then that's probably the last time I check it.

As for who runs out of air, well that's a loaded question. Lot's of different ways it can happen, so it's not always from carelessness. I nearly ran out on a mundane cavern dive. Buddy and I spent a bit of extra time in the cavern. One we knew exceptionally well and had both logged dozens of dives in. We left the cavern with just under 1/3 of our gas left. But came up to deco depth with a lightning storm going on. We were both struck 3 times by lightning on deco. We both ran a bit lower on air than we would have liked as we waited for the storm to pass. It was a very uncomfortable situation. Amazingly, our breathing rates didn't increase significantly even facing a potentially lethal scenario. If they had, we both would have run out, or at least we would have run so low we would have had to surface.

You never know what can happen. Anyone can run out under certain circumstance.

I use an inline reg on the BC inflater hose. I like it. It takes up less weight and space in my dive bag. I test it now and then, but I hope to NEVER need to use it. I check my pressure often, as well as those with whom I am diving, including the guide!

I don't dive with people who run out of air. How do you run out of air anyway?????

[hambergler]

I went with the BC/Inflator alternate last year to streamline things. When I started DM training, they told me to lose that and go back to the old-style octo. Just recently, all the Instructors and DMs I work with switched training facilities, and the new facility uses BC alternates at the pool, and octo alternates at the lake. Having just worked my first pool sessions with this facility, I can tell you I saw a few confused students when it came time for out of air drills (which button does what, and oh yeah, that purge thingie is on the END of the hose!). Come lake weekend, using the different rig they didn't drill on (the old hand-eye and muscle memory theory), I see possibilities for confusion on the platform...

Personally, I like the BC alternate, but for training I'd much prefer the old-style octopus alternate.

[Capn Jack]

I use an inline reg on the BC inflater hose. I like it. It takes up less weight and space in my dive bag. I test it now and then, but I hope to NEVER need to use it. I check my pressure often, as well as those with whom I am diving, including the guide!

I don't dive with people who run out of air. How do you run out of air anyway?????

Interesting question - I wonder if there are DAN stats or something somewhere.

The three I experienced went like this:

#1 and #2 were other idiots like me diving a J valve and forgot to flip it
#3 was another idiot like me on a fun dive when we were doing scientific testing of effects of narcosis. He was used to surface-supplied air diving and between that and the narc'ing drills we were doing - he simply forgot. (air goes pretty fast at 160' )

[shadragon]

I hear you hambergler. Training standards... You should see the looks I get when I use my old ScubaPro Classic Air BC in OW classes. No BC hose as it is integrated. Just has an oral inflator.

I recycled my second stage from my older reg. It was black, so I put yellow tape around the housing and added a 5' yellow hose. Stands out nicely. You can see it on my avatar pic. At the end of the day the style does not matter as long as I have something to go to that works.

[secretsea18]

I use an inline reg on the BC inflater hose. I like it. It takes up less weight and space in my dive bag. I test it now and then, but I hope to NEVER need to use it. I check my pressure often, as well as those with whom I am diving, including the guide!

I don't dive with people who run out of air. How do you run out of air anyway?????

Interesting question - I wonder if there are DAN stats or something somewhere.

The three I experienced went like this:

#1 and #2 were other idiots like me diving a J valve and forgot to flip it
#3 was another idiot like me on a fun dive when we were doing scientific testing of effects of narcosis. He was used to surface-supplied air diving and between that and the narc'ing drills we were doing - he simply forgot. (air goes pretty fast at 160' )

On my last trip (to Andaman Islands in India, very remote), there was a guy who really had no business being in the currents and situations that diving location was about, who was a novice diver and had only ~30 dives or so of experience. He was very glib about his experience compared to all the other experienced divers on the trip, but would not incorporate any suggestions to help him dive better and improve his air consumption. We did a quite deep dive in strong current to see the giant sea fans (they were magnificent and over 12-15 feet across ) on Nitrox and the depth was at the limit of the MOD for the mix of Nitrox (I actually dipped below the O2 floor a couple of time for a few seconds --first time my computer yelled at me for doing that), so our bottom time was very limited. This guy, with so little experience and diving on air, went into deco (again something he was not trained to deal with) and ran out of air. It was a very fortunate thing for him that he did not get blown away from the rest of the group, as he had to share air not only on this dive but on several other dives as well, as he sucked down his tank so quickly. He could not accept that he was not as experienced a diver, used his air nearly twice as fast as anyone else and was not very self-reflecting about the consequences of these actions.
I usually look at my remaining air and time as often as every 5 minutes, or between subjects. As a photographer, the risk of getting so interested in my subject and forgetting to check air has made me go the other way and check often, so I will not run out of air. My Suunto Vytec is air-integrated and tells me air time remaining in tank. I love that feature of this model.

[PerroneFord]

I usually look at my remaining air and time as often as every 5 minutes, or between subjects. As a photographer, the risk of getting so interested in my subject and forgetting to check air has made me go the other way and check often, so I will not run out of air. My Suunto Vytec is air-integrated and tells me air time remaining in tank. I love that feature of this model.

All bets are OFF with photographers/videographers. I think that datamask is nearly perfect where you can see your pressure all the time. I can see how easy it would be to get engrossed in that kind of thing and really lose yourself. I think if I were doing that, I'd be taking WAY more gas to breathe than I could possibly use.

[uwfan]

I usually look at my remaining air and time as often as every 5 minutes, or between subjects. As a photographer, the risk of getting so interested in my subject and forgetting to check air has made me go the other way and check often, so I will not run out of air. My Suunto Vytec is air-integrated and tells me air time remaining in tank. I love that feature of this model.

All bets are OFF with photographers/videographers. I think that datamask is nearly perfect where you can see your pressure all the time. I can see how easy it would be to get engrossed in that kind of thing and really lose yourself. I think if I were doing that, I'd be taking WAY more gas to breathe than I could possibly use.

While I know a datamask would be major overkill for me .... the one feature I wish the datamask had is a larger viewing area or some kind of magnification... without my glasses I cannot see the readout.

[secretsea18]

I usually look at my remaining air and time as often as every 5 minutes, or between subjects. As a photographer, the risk of getting so interested in my subject and forgetting to check air has made me go the other way and check often, so I will not run out of air. My Suunto Vytec is air-integrated and tells me air time remaining in tank. I love that feature of this model.

All bets are OFF with photographers/videographers. I think that datamask is nearly perfect where you can see your pressure all the time. I can see how easy it would be to get engrossed in that kind of thing and really lose yourself. I think if I were doing that, I'd be taking WAY more gas to breathe than I could possibly use.

Perrone,
In effect I do bring more gas than I need for the "recommended" dive time of just 60-70 minutes where I like to dive + photography. For an 80cf tank, I have loads of air left when they are nagging me to ascend at the 60-70 min mark. I joke that I will ascend with that much air/nitrox left when they start giving me $$ back for not using up my tank. Most dive resorts/operators laugh when I say that!

[Capn Jack]

I thought of something else.

Seems I remember reading somewhere that your secondary reg (necklaced) should be unbalanced if your primary is balanced or vice versa. The thinking being an environmental situation that would cause one to fail wouldn't effect the other in the same way.

Opinions? Facts (please - although opinions are so much more fun)