26 replies to this topic

[netmage]

<br />hmmm...<br /><br />If I had the o-ring go at any depth, I think I would NOT shut off the air. If I shut off the air, then water would definitely run INSIDE my first stage regulator. Surely, get with my buddy (insta-buddy usually) use his spare second stage and abort the dive. Hopefully the insides of the first stage would be kept dry. <br /><br />What do the &quot;more tec&quot; divers think ?<br /><br />I would like to add this very similar question; what would we do if the burst disk went while at depth?<br />

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o-ring face seals are one reason some of us use DIN..., the captured nature of the o-ring is more secure... Take another cue from tech divers, a 5-7' hose on whatever your planning to donate goes a long way to giving people room to address and secure whatever problems your having w/o cramping up on each other...

Keep your eyes on the prize, in the grand scheme of things, a 1st stage overhaul is nothing,...

[JimG]

You might also be able to feather the tank valve on and off with the reg still attached to extend the amount of time you can breathe from it before it empties.

I don't recommend that particular technique, especially for OW divers who (should always) have the option of going directly to the surface when a failure occurs. Voluntarily shutting down your gas supply is no different from completely losing the gas (at least in terms of how you deal with it), so a more familiar response to the situation would be preferable, in my opinion. Everyone has practiced air sharing - how many people have ever practiced feathering their valve?

To me, feathering a valve only makes sense for overhead environments (which includes both caves and deco), and then only for stage or deco bottles, which you can see the valve right in front of you at all times. In that situation, you would be diving manifolded doubles, so shutting down one post still gives you access to all the gas in your tanks. Feathering would be unnecessary in that situation, besides which the task loading of trying to feather your back gas while swimming would be enormous, and is not something I would want to try and do for any distance. On the other hand, feathering a stage bottle is pretty easy, and should not be that difficult to manage while swimming.

And as with any procedure of this type, you should practice extensively in confined water until you are comfortable enough with it to do it safely "for real".

-JimG

[NJBerserker]

Just for the record. I do practice turning my valve on and off underwater. Too many stories of people jumping in without their air on. I always make sure to put the valve in reach.

[BubbleBoy]

Just for the record. I do practice turning my valve on and off underwater. Too many stories of people jumping in without their air on. I always make sure to put the valve in reach.

Me too Berserker. When you get to be an old geaser like me, it also pays to limber yourself up by pacticing it a few times in advance. Makes it easier and quicker to do if and when you really need it.

Jim G makes some good points about the relative difficulty of this maneuver though. Obviously not the first choice of solutions. It's one of the reasons that I prefer to sling a pony when I carry one instead of side mounting it to my tank. If the pony system starts to fail or leak, you might more easily still get some decent use from it while saving your back gas for reserve during a rescue.

[VADiver]

I'm a bit late to the discussion but would like to say I agree with Perone, Jim and Tim regarding the procedures and what to do if a buddy refuses to take a minute to practice an S-drill. This is why my regular dive buddies and I practice and train together. If someone I know wants to dive with me, I'll make sure we visit the local quarry or a nice shallow dive to make sure we are on the same sheet of music. One of the many great things about DIR is that GUE trained divers are on the same sheet music and are like minded.

When I was in Cayman with a DIR group the first dive went off like we were all dive buddies for years...it was the best 10 days of diving I've ever had. We planned the dive, dove as a team and the entire group seemed to signal the end of dive at the same time. It was the same diving off MD...with low viz and two dive teams we descended as one group, did our S-drills, hit the bottom and each team went off in a different direction. At the planned end of the dive each team hit the up-line at the same time and thumbed the dive. We hit all our stops on time and as a team--it was like clockwork.

Proper training, proper procedures and great buddies equals a great dive.

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

I'm a bit late to the discussion but would like to say I agree with Perone, Jim and Tim regarding the procedures and what to do if a buddy refuses to take a minute to practice an S-drill........
Proper training, proper procedures and great buddies equals a great dive.

This thread isn't that old, so additional comments and information are most welcome! I hope to encourage more SD'ers to post their experiences here with their first stage problems underwater, their training on that issue, and/or their opinion on quick safety drills with new dive buddies, particularly on SD trips where we typically will have a new buddy every trip.

When lives are on the line, is a quick drill with your new buddy while waiting for everyone to get into the water worth your time and attention? Would you be offended if you were asked to do so, or would you be too shy to ask your new buddy to do the drill?

I believe I'll ask for the brief share-air drill on the first dive with a new buddy from now on -- just to be sure their octo functions. If we're both breathing, we can both get to the surface safely.

What about you?

[scubaski]

Hi All,

I’ve noticed a lot of recreations diver’s who dive just occasionally as they set up their 1st stage to the tank valve, really crank down on the yoke knob or screw. They often use a bike handle grip or the full hand on the yoke screw and use enough force to flex their forearm muscles. I was taught to use 3 fingers, thumb, index and middle fingers to tighten the yoke knob only FINGER tight. Open the yoke screw enough for clearance over the tank valve, preseat the 1st stage against the O-ring with your left hand and tighten the yoke screw with the thumb, index and middle fingers of your right hand. South paws just reverse. If your not squarely up against the O-ring and start to crank down on the yoke screw this is where the burring begins.

Now I’ve never been in a low or out of air emergency. Never seen or heard a O-ring pop at depth. I imagine that you would know pretty quickly that you have a problem. Does some air continue into 1st stage and down to 2nd stage?? I would try to continue breathing off reg as you hopefully have your buddy nearby and share air to surface. As recreational divers we should be NDL diving and be able to make a safe emergency ascent if your buddy or another diver is not nearby.

Now a quick safety or low/out of air drill on the boat with a new buddy is great. Do I do it 100% of the time, NO..

To be honest I rather have a Mandatory boat safety check i.e.: PFD and fire extinguisher location, first aid-O2 location when on foreign dive trips whereas US coast Guard regs do not apply.

JMTCW-------Ss

[uwfan]

Hi All,

I’ve noticed a lot of recreations diver’s who dive just occasionally as they set up their 1st stage to the tank valve, really crank down on the yoke knob or screw. They often use a bike handle grip or the full hand on the yoke screw and use enough force to flex their forearm muscles. I was taught to use 3 fingers, thumb, index and middle fingers to tighten the yoke knob only FINGER tight. Open the yoke screw enough for clearance over the tank valve, preseat the 1st stage against the O-ring with your left hand and tighten the yoke screw with the thumb, index and middle fingers of your right hand. South paws just reverse. If your not squarely up against the O-ring and start to crank down on the yoke screw this is where the burring begins.

Now I’ve never been in a low or out of air emergency. Never seen or heard a O-ring pop at depth. I imagine that you would know pretty quickly that you have a problem. Does some air continue into 1st stage and down to 2nd stage?? I would try to continue breathing off reg as you hopefully have your buddy nearby and share air to surface. As recreational divers we should be NDL diving and be able to make a safe emergency ascent if your buddy or another diver is not nearby.

Now a quick safety or low/out of air drill on the boat with a new buddy is great. Do I do it 100% of the time, NO..

To be honest I rather have a Mandatory boat safety check i.e.: PFD and fire extinguisher location, first aid-O2 location when on foreign dive trips whereas US coast Guard regs do not apply.

JMTCW-------Ss

Thanks for the info! And you remembered us South Paws!!

Seriously-- thanks for all the info everyone, it definitely gives me food for thought being the occasional landlocked rec diver that I am.

[PerroneFord]

Now I’ve never been in a low or out of air emergency. Never seen or heard a O-ring pop at depth. I imagine that you would know pretty quickly that you have a problem. Does some air continue into 1st stage and down to 2nd stage?? I would try to continue breathing off reg as you hopefully have your buddy nearby and share air to surface. As recreational divers we should be NDL diving and be able to make a safe emergency ascent if your buddy or another diver is not nearby.

Yes, usually it's breathable when it fails. Especially if it's just an o-ring. As for what it's like, it sounds like a race engine behind your head. Anyone within a quarter mile underwater knows something just happened. So finding an alternate breathing source becomes job #1. Shutting down the tank to calm the commotion is job #2, and a safe ascent and exit is job #3. Keeping your cool is paramount though and it sounds easy, but it's not. If your reg is working, and you have buoyancy, everything is going to sort itself out.

Edited by PerroneFord, 30 September 2008 - 11:03 PM.

[NJBerserker]

Just for the record. I do practice turning my valve on and off underwater. Too many stories of people jumping in without their air on. I always make sure to put the valve in reach.

Me too Berserker. When you get to be an old geaser like me, it also pays to limber yourself up by pacticing it a few times in advance. Makes it easier and quicker to do if and when you really need it.

Jim G makes some good points about the relative difficulty of this maneuver though. Obviously not the first choice of solutions. It's one of the reasons that I prefer to sling a pony when I carry one instead of side mounting it to my tank. If the pony system starts to fail or leak, you might more easily still get some decent use from it while saving your back gas for reserve during a rescue.

I sling my AL40 for the same reason. You just have more options that way. It's also handy as emergency breathing gas if someone had an emergency at depth or something and is forced to do extended or unplanned deco (Yes this should be accounted for, but we all know stuff happens sometimes). I can clip off my bottle and clip it to them so they can finish their obligations before surfacing. Not likely to happen. . . but I enjoy my wreck diver paranoia.

[Geek]

Just for the record. I do practice turning my valve on and off underwater. Too many stories of people jumping in without their air on. I always make sure to put the valve in reach.

I hate to admit this, but I've done this. No big deal to just reach back and turn the valve, but then the tough part is to admit to yourself you screwed up.

[Geek]

Just for the record. I do practice turning my valve on and off underwater. Too many stories of people jumping in without their air on. I always make sure to put the valve in reach.

Me too Berserker. When you get to be an old geaser like me, it also pays to limber yourself up by pacticing it a few times in advance. Makes it easier and quicker to do if and when you really need it.

Jim G makes some good points about the relative difficulty of this maneuver though. Obviously not the first choice of solutions. It's one of the reasons that I prefer to sling a pony when I carry one instead of side mounting it to my tank. If the pony system starts to fail or leak, you might more easily still get some decent use from it while saving your back gas for reserve during a rescue.

I sling my AL40 for the same reason. You just have more options that way. It's also handy as emergency breathing gas if someone had an emergency at depth or something and is forced to do extended or unplanned deco (Yes this should be accounted for, but we all know stuff happens sometimes). I can clip off my bottle and clip it to them so they can finish their obligations before surfacing. Not likely to happen. . . but I enjoy my wreck diver paranoia.

It isn't paranoia. Darwin is out to get you.

I find that with a slung tank, it is easier to get in and out of the water, hand off the tank, use various size tanks in the same manner, carry the tank in the same way, whether as a pony or for deco, etc. I don't really notice it in the water until I want it.

Coming back to the original issue, if you have a redundant air source a blown first stage is not a crisis. I realize it is not always easy to arrange when traveling, but it is definitely a safer way to dive.