34 replies to this topic

[VADiver]

I took advanced nitrox and deco procedures in a combined class with no worries. But I previously took a fundies course and was diving with doubles in a DIR config. With pool time, practice and a good instructor I don't think it's too difficult.

[georoc01]

I think your recreational training is also a factor in that decision. Nowadays, the amount of time spent on gas management is minimal in the OW class (in return for learning how to dive with a computer), with no tables taught. And even the Nitrox class is now online with the only instruction is how to analyze a tank.

So, if you have never dove with multiple tanks and really haven't done much of the gas calculations, doing advanced nitrox separately has its advantages. I am glad I did them separately.

[ScubaTurtle]

Just wanted to note that I've been following the thread since Jerry revived it and I appreciate everyone's input and advice. When I decide to move my training further into technical (it will happen I know that), I'll be taking all of this in consideration.

I'm in agreement with George in the sense that it seems like many people who are now eve just basic nitrox certified don't really understand the gas theory behind it and how they would use tables to track exposure and dive times. It's scared me a few times on dive trips with what people don't know and understand what they are using. I bet there are people who are nitrox certified that wouldn't understand why you couldn't breath 100% O2 below a certain depth.

Saying all that, when I go into technical diving I want to understand everything that's being done just as I've tried to do with recreational diving and even basic nitrox.

[Scubatooth]

George - that what scares me about dive education right now, gas mgmt and calcs should be OW requirements. Min standards keep getting watered down and I dont like it. Even before I started any tech diving I already had been tracking my SAC and could do my gas mgmt calcs. Its only gotten more involved as my training progressed.

The tables not being taught anymore is really sad in that what are you gonna due when/if that computer takes a dump. Depending on the operator you may have to sit out a dive or a day then run on tables.

[georoc01]

George - that what scares me about dive education right now, gas mgmt and calcs should be OW requirements. Min standards keep getting watered down and I dont like it. Even before I started any tech diving I already had been tracking my SAC and could do my gas mgmt calcs. Its only gotten more involved as my training progressed.

The tables not being taught anymore is really sad in that what are you gonna due when/if that computer takes a dump. Depending on the operator you may have to sit out a dive or a day then run on tables.

We can create a whole new thread on that topic. But for me, whether its technical or recreational diving, the problem becomes when you don't know what you don't know.

That's why, back to what Jerry and others are saying, there is nothing that can replace experience. And that's experience in a wide variety of environments that can require different rig setups. The more bottom time you log, the better diver you will be.

Likewise, people learn at different rates and finding the best combination really comes down to you and your instructor.

[lv2dive70]

Let me re-ask my original question.

Do you recommend to someone who has 100 or more dives, has AOW, RESCUE and several specially certs, to do advanced Nitrox in conjunction with Decompression procedures. I think from the previous replies I know the answer.

I would like to prevent people from making the same mistakes I did.

Late to the party, but I'll dance <G>

I agree with your answer Jerry. Someone else mentioned they were already diving a doubles rig and for them my answer might be different, but for someone who has the experience and certs listed above, I'm not sure what the value would be in putting Adv. Nixtrox and Deco Procedures together. There is a lot to learn at the Adv Nitrox level and if that has not been internalized, why not focus on that first? if someone is a complete and utter rock star, the instructor could always suggest an acceleration mid-course, but my going-in recommendation for someone with that background would be to split it up.

[Jerrymxz]

That's my recommendation as well. Too many new processes and gear for a strictly recreational diver in my experience and my 2psi.

And thanks for the dance Kate.

[ScubaTurtle]

Thanks everyone for the input. It's definitely valuable to hear from others who have already gone through it.

[peterbj7]

Mine would also be "wait". Wait quite a long time. I did my first "tech" dive in the Red Sea in 1998, when I had around 1200 dives. I think a great deal of all-round experience is best for precision tech diving. And on maintaining accurate buoyancy whilst adding or handing off tanks, without absolute depth varying much at all, try that using a CCR on which which of course you can't vary buoyancy by breathing in or out.

I also haven't done this sort of diving for far too long, and would break myself in very gently. I have been an instructor in all these disciplines, but although the cards technically don't lapse my abilities certainly will have done. Remember that when choosing an instructor for yourself - make sure (s)he is very experienced at at least two or three levels above what you want to be taught, and is completely current. Although I've done a fair amount of cave diving I've never been certified at it, but I know several "cave diving instructors" I wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

Oh, and this is my first post for an awfully long time. Hello again, folks!

[ScubaTurtle]

All great tips peterbj7! Thanks for the additional questions to ask about the instructor. In my area (Chicago) there are not many of them so getting a good one is important to me. I'm very likely to focus on more diving as you mentioned prior to attempting to add this much technical cert to my repertoire. I do have an urge to move in that direction (pure tech diving) but I think for now just focusing on more diving will be a better decision. And as you mentioned getting many, many, many more dives in before moving in that direction.

Edited by ScubaTurtle, 20 August 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[georoc01]

Oh, and this is my first post for an awfully long time. Hello again, folks!

Welcome back, and definitely time for a trip to Belize soon!

[finGrabber]

ScubaTurtle,

when you're ready to go down the tech path, I'd recommend training with Bill (OTWdiver)if you can't find a suitable instructor in Chicago.

I've gotten all my tech certs thru him - he's an excellent instructor as well as a diver who does these kinds of dives on a regular basis. When you get into the training and the dives, you'll see how very important it is to train with someone who "walks the walk" so to speak. It may be worth it for you to explore that option when the time comes.

I did deco procedures/adv nitrox together and it seemed to me that the skills complement each other, so much so, that I don't really see a reason to break up the classes. I also had 200 or 300 dives before I did the training so I had most things really dialed in.

it is gear intensive so get prepared to open your wallet, ALOT!

[decoboy]

Thinking of getting into tech diving? Here is a basic intro article for you to read.

Perhaps those "in the know" can comment on its validity.

i'd say that should be read, taught to open water divers! as some of it is,
but should be stressed more, so when folks do take steps to 'descend' deeper in diving a lot of this common sense is already ingrained.

[Jerrymxz]

Thinking of getting into tech diving? Here is a basic intro article for you to read.

Perhaps those "in the know" can comment on its validity.

i'd say that should be read, taught to open water divers! as some of it is,
but should be stressed more, so when folks do take steps to 'descend' deeper in diving a lot of this common sense is already ingrained.

Very good read!! Anyone have any other thoughts on this topic? I think the seperate the classes has a slim lead on the combine them, buts that's my unofficial count and maybe a bit of bias on my part.

[Jerrymxz]

This is a great discusion and wanted to see if there was anyone else out there who had any input on this subject.  Or anyone with a question to go along with this thread.