35 replies to this topic

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

Something happens to divers once they slip away from their instructor's grip & obtain their C-card. Over time, many divers stop executing the skills the way they learned in class. Once divers get their C-card, instead of working to perfect the execution of skills learned during their training, they begin taking shortcuts, or watching other divers & following their (often unsafe) lead.

My case in point today has to do with surfacing & boarding your boat after a dive. We are all taught to keep our masks in place and our regulator or snorkel in our mouth until we're back on the boat. I was also taught to keep my fins with me, not to hand them to a boat hand, just in case the boat hits a swell and I fall off the ladder.....if we're in any current at all, I will need my fins to get back to the boat.

Deviating from these practices often compromises safety, and could, if anything goes wrong at the surface before you're completely back on the boat, lead to a serious problem.

But, more often than not, I see divers surface & put their masks on backwards & take their regs out & start talking to their buddy about the dive. Most hand their fins to the boat hand when it's their turn to climb back into the boat.

No matter how many dives we have in our logbooks, making each basic skill a lifelong habit will make our sport safer. And, you'll be a good role model for the newer divers, who are watching the more experienced divers on their boat & copying their actions.

I have no choice but to leave my mask in place until I'm on the boat, because it's prescription & I need it to see. Keeping the reg in place while boarding is now second nature to me, and if you'll look closely in the attached pic, you'll see my fin straps in my left hand as I'm boarding the boat (I'm thinking I need a clip on my BC for my fins, to free up my left hand). I don't remember who took this pic in Roatan, but my thanks for providing a good pic for this topic!

Let's remember all the basic training, practice what we learned, and be good role models for the new divers out there. It will help us all be safer divers!

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[Capn Jack]

Good points.

I am not sure why, human nature I suppose to relax and become complacent. I think you have to force yourself into a ritual - a brief, air checks, at least one skill drill while you're waiting out your 3 minutes.

As to fins - I put one on each wrist by putting my hand through the strap, rather than holding it. That way I've got them handy (bad pun) and can still have full grip strength for the ladder.

Most boats will tell you they want you to pass up your fins, so a word to the crew will save surprises at the ladder.

[Jerrymxz]

Good points.

I am not sure why, human nature I suppose to relax and become complacent. I think you have to force yourself into a ritual - a brief, air checks, at least one skill drill while you're waiting out your 3 minutes.

As to fins - I put one on each wrist by putting my hand through the strap, rather than holding it. That way I've got them handy (bad pun) and can still have full grip strength for the ladder.

Most boats will tell you they want you to pass up your fins, so a word to the crew will save surprises at the ladder.

My .02 worth is to pay attention to the dive brief. most of the time the crew will tell you the procedures that have proven effective for them. some boats use a fins on ladder. (here in NC) 3 minutes attention will answer most procedure questions. and if all else fails.... ask. Some else on the boat wants to know as well but they won't.


Counting down to Bonaire!!!

[secretsea18]

I offer a differing point of view.
I think it all depends upon where and what the water/boat conditions are where you are diving. When you are still an inexperienced diver, it is more important to follow the way you were taught to dive, than when you have extensive experience in certain water conditions. However that said, I see INSTRUCTORS and DMs who regularly remove their mask, take out their regulators when they are on the surface, and basically do what you say is wrong, just about everywhere that I go diving. And where do you see snorkels hanging on very experienced divers (DMs, instructors, included) mask in calm water conditions other than teaching situations? Those are some of the things I learned, but don't do so much (my snorkel is in my BC pocket, when I am in places when I think I might want it.... such as in places where dolphins might show up on the dinghy ride to the boat).

I don't think that it's complacency but rather it has to do with the current water conditions you are in. If you are in calm, clear, current free, pool-like conditions, why would you want/need to keep your regulator in? Should you keep it in just because it was in your training? You can't talk to your buddy with it in? You might need/want to communicate with the boatmen or the other divers around you. Even when there are some swells, you might want/need to take it out, but (as long as you still have air in the tank) hold the regulator for easy replacement if the need arises. Most recreational divers (excepting those in the more rugged diving areas of PNW, NE US, and some other places) are in much more calm conditions and those precautions I learned in OWI (NAUI) in Southern California really are unnecessary when I am in the calm seas in Lembeh or Philippines, for example, vs the swells/currents you get in California/PNW/Cocos. So what I do is dictated by the water conditions I am in not just because I am supposed to because it was in my training class.

The water exit process will differ depending upon you gear, the boat and whether there are ladders on the boat. How should I hold onto my full foot fins when I am holding both ladder rails climbing out of the water? You have to hand up the fins to climb up the ladder! My typical exit procedure: approach boat, hand up camera, take off/hand up weight belt, take off BC for boatman to haul into boat, take off fins and hand up (while holding the ladder with one hand in rougher water), climb up ladder. All this is usually done holding ladder with at least on hand and takes about 3 minutes. How can this be unsafe? When wearing a wetsuit, there is sufficient buoyancy to help stay afloat, PLUS, I know how to swim! In any significant current, I sure expect that there is a trail line, or the boat will just maneuver to collect me. Typically, I dive with operators that use a live boat rather than an anchored one (which nearly always use a trail line).

at least one skill drill

As for this, yes I fully agree, you should take at least one test shot before you go to depth to make sure your camera / strobes work
Does checking to make sure you computer notices that you have descended/have air count????

Happy diving all!

[VADiver]

I don't have a problem with divers on the surface taking out their reg or having their mask turned around. My buddies and I do it prior to decsent and when we surface--it's a nice way to end the dive and wait for the ladder to clear. However, this is dependant upon the sea state. Once it's my turn to climb I put my mask on and the reg goes back in my mouth-in case I get knocked off the ladder into the ocean again.

as for skills--we practice something on every dive and hit the quarry to refine them.

[uwfan]

Very interesting posts.

I have to say last summer when I did my first dives with SD.com, I had a lot of suprises. I was surprised that very few of the divers had snorkels attached to their masks...I'm still not comfortable with the idea, so I know my snorkel will stay on my mask for quite some time yet. I was also surprised that I was supposed to climb the ladder with my full set of gear, including fins. I'd done Cozumel and Caribbean diving prior to that and was used to "hand your fins up and then climb the ladder" and my Cozy diving included procedures to hand up your weight belt, fins and your BCD/tank, then climb the ladder. So it was different, but I learned to do it and it broadened my understanding of boat diving.

A question for everyone, when you are boat diving and either do your giant stride or backward roll, when do you give the okay sign that was part of your basic OW training, and when do you not?

[Capn Jack]

A question for everyone, when you are boat diving and either do your giant stride or backward roll, when do you give the okay sign that was part of your basic OW training, and when do you not?

At the risk of getting my knife shortened again by SecretSea - I'll say that I give an ok to the crew as soon as I clear the jump area and know I'm "ok" - the only time I don't is when we deliberately go in negatively buoyant.

[finGrabber]

A question for everyone, when you are boat diving and either do your giant stride or backward roll, when do you give the okay sign that was part of your basic OW training, and when do you not?

At the risk of getting my knife shortened again by SecretSea - I'll say that I give an ok to the crew as soon as I clear the jump area and know I'm "ok" - the only time I don't is when we deliberately go in negatively buoyant.

Yeah, a hot drop is one time you can't give a the okay sign

I agree with secretsea - you have to adapt to the conditions you're diving in...the boats I've been on in NC have fins on ladders and the crew removes your fins for you once you're on deck...boats in the Flower Gardens will tell you to remove your fins on their trail line, wrap them around your wrists and get on board

the only time I hand them up is when the conditions are dead calm

[hambergler]

In Cozumel on a calm day, or in the Gulf Stream after a pleasant Florida Gold Coast dive in a glass sea, I'll doff my mask around my neck, drop the reg, and converse with my buddies until the boat shows up, then I'll toss my fins up onto the dive deck and climb aboard.

In the Flower Gardens or anywhere we have waves or any sort of a surface current, the mask and reg stay on, and the fins get clipped to my BC as I'm hanging on the ladder line before I pull myself for'ards to the ladder and the after deck.

The snorkel is for show during OW classes, and generally gets left out of the bag on trips.

On a hot drop in swells and current, and per the boat's DM's instructions, it's a deflated BC and head first into the water--I'll see everybody on the bottom.

On the Spree on a fixed mooring, in a sea with current, it's a drop and a quick OK, then down the side line to the down line and see you on the bottom.

[Twinklez]

In Cozumel on a calm day, or in the Gulf Stream after a pleasant Florida Gold Coast dive in a glass sea, I'll doff my mask around my neck, drop the reg, and converse with my buddies until the boat shows up, then I'll toss my fins up onto the dive deck and climb aboard.

In the Flower Gardens or anywhere we have waves or any sort of a surface current, the mask and reg stay on, and the fins get clipped to my BC as I'm hanging on the ladder line before I pull myself for'ards to the ladder and the after deck.

The snorkel is for show during OW classes, and generally gets left out of the bag on trips.

On a hot drop in swells and current, and per the boat's DM's instructions, it's a deflated BC and head first into the water--I'll see everybody on the bottom.

On the Spree on a fixed mooring, in a sea with current, it's a drop and a quick OK, then down the side line to the down line and see you on the bottom.

I'm right in line with you with the exception of the snorkel. I'll be the first to say that I find my snorkel to be quite annoying and mostly in the way. But if you've ever surfaced at a rig in the Gardens only to find the boat temporarily gone due to weather and 6ft seas, that snorkel can be your lifesaver. If you pull your reg out you're gonna get a mouth full of seawater unless you've got a snorkel. Then you at least have a means of breathing and not depleting your tank during the wait. By the time the boat gets back half the other divers are out of air and in full panic.

If you're like me and you absolutely hate your snorkel, consider a fold-up pocket version.

[Scubatooth]

Very Good Topic.

This is something I see on a regular basis. People will do what ever they want and take risks without thinking it through. Complancy kills and being out of practice doesnt help as if you dont use it you will loose it. At work even though there are skills we infrequently do I still keep them up so when it does hit the fan I wont have a deer in headlights look/moment as lives depending on my having it all together.

The same is with my diving when i get in the water i always do some skills so i can keep them up so i can stay alive and work through a problem should something pop up. Its like prior to my abscess I was getting in the pool about every two weeks to do skills for my upcoming Extended range as the skills needed. Now that things are getting back to normal i will be getting back into the water so i can get back on level as i know those weeks out of the water have cause muscle memory to decline and will take some time to get back on level. For some people it may seem silly to practice that much but when it comes to dealing with risk and my life I would rather be safe and alive then a statistic in a paper 6 feet under the dirt.

Like LLDN Im of the mask on and reg in mouth school on the ladder, with my fins on my wrists so if something does happen, and yes i have taken a ladder to the face as well as anopther diver. With a snorkel I would have had problems as snorkels dont work to well underwater. I wont ever take my fins off and hand them up even on glass smooth conditions as thats asking for murphy to make a appearence. Now there have been times i have kept them(fins) on going up the ladder because conditions where so rough (seas and current) that i didnt want to risk loosing them if something where to happen.

Good example was the last SD trip to the Flower gardens the whole trip was fine until the last dive when the water temp dropped and the current kicked up real bad (flying like a flag bad) as we were ascending and hanging for safety stops. Once on the surface i was about middle on the trail line when i tried to take one of my fins off and almost got completely off the line. I didnt try to take them off again and when it came for me to reboard I came up the ladder( this wasnt a open fin ladder either this was a closed ladder, thank goodness for force fins) with fins on much to the shagrin of Melanie and Chris but considering the surface condtions I would rather had a finger waved at me then have to get the dingy ride of shame.

I will second mark on the only reason i will bailout of a "ok" sign on the surfaces is if i need to do a hot drop in a current like in north carolina and a few select dive sites in Puerto Rico.

As for the snorkel issue, for the most part I dont use one at all unless im actually snorkeling or teaching standards needed it and then its in my thigh pocket.

FWIW , IMHO, and YMMV

Tooth

[WreckWench]

As in the case in MUCH OF DIVING...there is NO ONE CORRECT answer. The answer depends on the TYPE of diving you are doing...the CONDITIONS you are diving in...the SET UP of the boat and CUSTOMS of the crew/operator. Then EXPERIENCE comes into play and soon you are all over the map in how divers do the same thing...of of which can be correct for the above mentioned reasons.

For example...I always keep my fins on my wrists regardless of conditions, type of ladder or normal boat practices. The boat will accept whatever you want to do as they are there to assist you and make your experience more helpful. I do this for several reasons... By practicing the same skills everytime I don't accidently find myself in a screnario where I go for my fins only to realize that one is on the deck or worse...both are on the deck and now I need them...maybe I dropped something and want to go and get it or someone below me needs help etc. And yes sometimes the boat looks at me strangely since they can't imagine someone not wanting to do it the easiest way possible but this is my preferred way to do it so they are fine with that.

In a similar vein...I do not like or need the boat to help me with my tank valve when I get on the boat. To me it throws my balance off and actually ADDS weight to me by their pressing down on the value to *help me*. So I ask that they allow me to do it myself and pretty soon they all stand back when they see its me and let me do it my preferred way. If its someone else they step in and help.

Diving is great...it allows us many opportunities to do the same thing slightly differently and they can ALL be *RIGHT*....the trick is to understand the differences when you see them so you understand why someone else is doing it differently from you!

Great topic!

[bowjunkie]

great topic and better replies.... you will see me do a couple things different than I used to after reading this

Edited by bowjunkie, 16 March 2009 - 01:56 PM.

[VADiver]

As in the case in MUCH OF DIVING...there is NO ONE CORRECT answer.

Yes there is...

[WreckWench]

As in the case in MUCH OF DIVING...there is NO ONE CORRECT answer.

Yes there is...

I know for YOU and many others there is...but even that changes from time to time too!