Jump to content

  • These forums are for "after booking" trip communications, socializing, and/or trip questions ONLY.
  • You will NOT be able to book a trip, buy add-ons, or manage your trip by logging in here. Please login HERE to do any of those things.

Photo

Do I really need a dry suit course to use one?


  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#1 SquattingRadishDM

SquattingRadishDM

    Meeting folks

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 155 posts
  • Location:London, England
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:PADI Divemaster, Dry Suit....eventually the IDC...then Paradise
  • Logged Dives:150+

Posted 31 August 2004 - 12:22 PM

I am thinking of taking the plunge into the cooooold UK waters after only diving in the tropics. As far as I am aware you dont NEED a dry suit course to rent or buy a dry suit or do LDS's check? Also is there that much to learn on a course or would reading the dry suit chapter in my AOW Manual be enough.

£££ (or $$$ to most of u!) is a consideration so dont really want to pay for a useless course and have collected all the c-cards I want for the time being.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

-Jack
The sea does not belong to despots. On its surface iniquitous rights can still be exercised, men can fight there, devour each other there, and transport all terrestrial horrors there. But at thirty feet below its level their power ceases, their influence dies out, their might disappears.
Ah, sir, live in the bosom of the waters! There alone is independence. There I recognise no masters! There I am free.
Jules Verne. 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea.

#2 sugarbad

sugarbad

    Meeting folks

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Location:Shelby, NC
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Nitrox
  • Logged Dives:60

Posted 31 August 2004 - 12:25 PM

Take the class........Don't let money or lack there of help you make a bad decision.

#3 H20 Bug

H20 Bug

    Meeting folks

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 195 posts
  • Location:Mountain View, CA
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:DiveControlSpecial Cert
  • Logged Dives:250

Posted 31 August 2004 - 12:38 PM

I agree with Sugarbad, plus you practice the techniques in a "safe" environment - I thought it was well worth it - plus you meet other divers interested in cold water. :banghead:
Any time spent in, on, around or underwater adds days to your life.

#4 Walter

Walter

    I need to get a life

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,549 posts
  • Location:Lehigh Acres, Florida
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Instructor
  • Logged Dives:4 digits

Posted 31 August 2004 - 12:56 PM

I've never taken a dry suit course, but I had over 900 dives under my belt the first time I used a dry suit. I did read extensively about diving with dry suits before giving it a try. I had no problem at all making the switch. Most people dive dry long before they are pushing 4 digits in their log and have a tad more trouble switching over. I have a dear friend (a NAUI Instructor) who has 20+ dry dives under her belt and still has difficulty with it. Everyone is different, but unless you have a great deal of experience, I'd suggest taking the class.
No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

DSSW,

WWW™

#5 SquattingRadishDM

SquattingRadishDM

    Meeting folks

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 155 posts
  • Location:London, England
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:PADI Divemaster, Dry Suit....eventually the IDC...then Paradise
  • Logged Dives:150+

Posted 31 August 2004 - 04:54 PM

Thanks guys, I knew the conservative thing to do would have been to take the course before I even wrote the post. I just wasn't sure how comprehensive the course was or how much there was too it seeing as the dry suit chapter in my PADI AOW manual (although 5 years old) is only 12 pages.

What is involved on the course? Just some theory then a dive like AOW?

I think I'll take the course, but even so what are the general considerations about diving with a dry suit? I havn't read up on the subject but I'm guessing u need more weight, managing bouyancy and suit squeeze.

-Jack
The sea does not belong to despots. On its surface iniquitous rights can still be exercised, men can fight there, devour each other there, and transport all terrestrial horrors there. But at thirty feet below its level their power ceases, their influence dies out, their might disappears.
Ah, sir, live in the bosom of the waters! There alone is independence. There I recognise no masters! There I am free.
Jules Verne. 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea.

#6 canuckdiver

canuckdiver

    Everyone knows me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 555 posts
  • Location:ontario
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Decompression procedures
  • Logged Dives:>120

Posted 31 August 2004 - 05:51 PM

I think I'll take the course, but even so what are the general considerations about diving with a dry suit? I havn't read up on the subject but I'm guessing u need more weight, managing bouyancy and suit squeeze.

-Jack

Depending on the suit, you may actually end up needing less wieght than you did in a 7mil 2-piece wetsuit.

biggest hurdle for me, was getting used to, and being able to correct for air movement in the suit. When you go nose-down to look at something, and the air migrates to the feet, can be an interesting situation if you don't know how to deal with it.

So, I guess my short answer would be buoyancy and trim for the biggest issues.
"what works, works" - shek exley

"the WW Approved 'Unofficial' guardian angel"

#7 ryvor

ryvor

    On a roll now.....

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 58 posts
  • Location:Pompano Beach, FL
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Padi Tech Deep. Finishing up Divemaster
  • Logged Dives:People actually log their dives? :P

Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:06 PM

Hi Jack,
I would definately take the course. I thought about not taking it when I got my drysuit and I'm glad I did. The instructor(if he's good) will give you alot of little tips that definately help.

#8 chinacat46

chinacat46

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,147 posts
  • Location:Lafayette, CO
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:OWSI
  • Logged Dives:1527(8 in fresh water)

Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:11 PM

Most dive shops won't rent you a dry suit without a c-card either and I'm sure you will want to rent(or should I say hire since you're from the UK) before buying.

#9 TheSassyRabbit

TheSassyRabbit

    I spend too much time on line

  • Inactive
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,044 posts
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:Divemaster/Master Diver
  • Logged Dives:>750

Posted 31 August 2004 - 07:24 PM

Definitely take the time and spend the money to take a class. In February, I actually had to rescue a dry suit diver who had inproperly suited up - and had not taken a class. Once down, he took on loads of water and couldn't surface (and once he did, he was too tired to swim!).

#10 Coo's Toe

Coo's Toe

    Everyone knows me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 514 posts
  • Location:Yakima, WA
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level: DIR-F

Posted 31 August 2004 - 08:30 PM

I'll begin this with a question... how comfortable are you right now with your diving?

I never took a drysuit "specialty" class, and never felt I needed one. It would have been a major waste of money, IMHO. On top of that, what I've read in the PADI manual is going to teach you what I consider to be the incorrect method of diving dry, ie using the suit as your primary means of buoyancy control.

A drysuit is like any other piece of unfamiliar gear. When you make the switch, you don't just jump off a boat and attempt a 130 foot dive in a 3 knot current... Head someplace shallow and protected. Do your weighting checks. Add some gas to the suit as you descend to relieve the squeeze, but you should still feel a little ziplocked. With a single tank, you'll need to add some gas to your BC to get neutral, and more with doubles. If you take the PADI method to heart and use the suit for buoyancy control, then practice doing tuck and rolls to get out of a runaway ascent scenario, because all that extra air will find it's way into your feet at some point ( and those goofy ankle weights won't help you if you lose control ascending from a deep dive. Trust me, I've seen it and it ain't pretty... )

Different suits have varying quality and locations of the dump valves. Practice getting the hang of dumping the suit while you're shallow and experimenting. As an excercise, overinflate your suit and try to dump it quickly... you'll soon see why I recommend using the smaller aircell in your BC for ( ironic? ) buoyancy control. Make your mistakes in the shallows. Have some fun with it.

If you still feel like you need the class after a weekend of trial and error on your own, then take it. But I was doing just fine after the first ten minutes underwater in my new suit, and it's only gotten easier after that.

#11 Trymixdiver

Trymixdiver

    On a roll now.....

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Location:Orange County, CA
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Rescue, Commercial, IANTD Tech
  • Logged Dives:300

Posted 31 August 2004 - 09:04 PM

Bottom line is NO you dont, but the a class will speed up your ability to use the suit properly.

I never took the class nor did i have a friend who could teach me the proper way to use a DS. I bought a book Called Drysuit Diving and read it cover to cover, it was a helpful teaching aid. What a class will do for you will get you on the right track and eliminate multiple test dives and the awkward learning phase of bouyancy and trim u/w using a DS.

Main thing is dont use your DS as a BCD, keep only enough air in it to keep the suit from squeezing you. Overinflating a DS could lead to an uncontrolled asscent.

DS diving can be a headache if your going it alone without training, it takes time to get comfortable using one.

Andy

bottom line is no you dont need a class but the class will benifit you by learning proper DS techqniues from someone who has plenty of experience in DS. The alternative is you flopping around like bait on the surface or bobbing to the surface feet first and plenty of frustrating dives learning how a DS effects your trim and bouyancy both on the surface and u/w.
If i could only dive and golf at the same time.

#12 Diverbrian

Diverbrian

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,620 posts
  • Location:Sanford, MI
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:SSI DiveCon/IANTD Normoxic Trimix.....
  • Logged Dives:200+

Posted 31 August 2004 - 10:19 PM

My new dive buddy took about 10 minutes to dive a drysuit well (without the course) and DOES NOT use the drysuit for buoyancy control when she dives dry and never started that poor habit (no ankle weights either).

I have seen other drysuit divers that take a few more dives than that with the course under there belt. The company line and conservative line is to take the course and ignore everything that you are taught about using drysuit air for buoyancy control. Realistically, if you don't have a buddy with several drysuit dives to help you out, you probably should take the course. But if you aren't renting the suit (which some shops will require a cert for), finding a proficient buddy and a shallow quarry will likely be sufficient.

BTW, if the buddy Walter is referring to is the one that I am thinking of, I have dove with her and she swears at that drysuit on a routine basis. It is nothing to do with skill. It is because she is tiny and the suit seals won't seal off well so she winds up getting wet! So, however you get the suit, MAKE SURE THAT IT FITS PROPERLY TOO!

Just my 2 psi.
A person should be judged in this life not by the mistakes that they make nor by the number of them. Rather they are to be judged by their recovery from them.

#13 Coo's Toe

Coo's Toe

    Everyone knows me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 514 posts
  • Location:Yakima, WA
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level: DIR-F

Posted 02 September 2004 - 12:20 AM

it takes time to get comfortable using one.

Yes... about 15 minutes.

DS diving can be a headache

Especially if your neckseal's too tight. :wub:

#14 AndrewJD

AndrewJD

    Getting started

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 41 posts
  • Location:Seoul, Korea (next month)
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Advanced, DIR-F
  • Logged Dives:130

Posted 02 September 2004 - 11:15 AM

I believe that taking a dry suit course is a waste of time and money. Let me explain why I feel this way.

When I bought my drysuit I took the PADI drysuit course and this is how it went.

Prior to the class we were given the video and the course book for the drysuit course. I read the book, watched the video and completed the self paced quizes in the book. Key topics were types of suits, care for suit, use of the suit as BC, advantages and disadvantages of a drysuit.

After my suit came and we had the class. (Two other divers taking the class) The instructor/shop owner helped us get into the suits and trim the seals. We then started the classroom portion of the course in which we reviewed the book (the instructor read from the PADI teaching manual) and the answers to the quiz to make sure that we got them right. Total classroom time about 30minutes.

We then finished suiting up and got in the 15' pool. Drills included Fin Pivot (useless skill), hover, stand on bottom depressing suit inflator with one hand and dump with other to demonstrate that the dump can keep up with the inflator, sommersaults to get out of runnaway ascent, inflator disconnect and reconnect underwater, and gear removal and replace on surface. O yeah, the instructor was standing pool side the entire time. Total pool time 10-15 minutes although we were allowed to stay as long as we want to practice with the suit.

That weekend we jumped on a boat headed for two nice 70' ocean dives on a wreck with poor visibility and a strong current. We repeated the skills except for the inflate/dump demonstations on the deck of said wreck followed by a short scenic dive after the skills. On the surface we did our gear removal and replacement. After the second dive I got a nice big congradulatory handshake from the instructor exclaiming how I'm now a PADI certified drysuit diver.

The only thing I learned from this class was that I'll never take another PADI class.

This is my experience with the PADI drysuit class. Others may have different experiences so keep that in mind. I recommend that you find a friend who knows how to dive a drysuit and go on a couple of shallow dives to figure out your weighting and get comfortable with the suit. And don't use if as a BC.

Good Luck.

Jonathan

#15 Narwhal

Narwhal

    Director of Training

  • Charter Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 411 posts
  • Location:Longview, TX
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Instructor
  • Logged Dives:1500+

Posted 10 October 2004 - 08:08 PM

Jonathan,
This sounds like a poor instructor rather than a poor dry suit course. You learned all of the material you needed to learn in spite of rather than because of the instructor. Watching a tape and reading the material is, of course, required and necessary but the instructor should have added value to and reinforced the material from the AV and written exposure. And, He (or She) should certainly have been in the pool with you. As discussed in other forums on this board, you can learn a lot from reading and searching the net. You can watch all the tapes and CDs you want, but nothing replaces a competant instructor in the classrom, pool, and open water.

There are far to many divers out there that think they can learn by gaining "head knowledge" and don't need supervised training. Before I became a certified diver (over forty years ago) I learned to scuba dive by reading a fifteen page pamphlet that came with my Aqualung Mistral regulator that I ordered for $49.95 out of the back of Popular Mechanics magazine. I procured a surplus CO2 bottle, found someone who could fill it to 1800 PSI with air and jumped in the water secure in the knowledge that I was qualified to do so. Somehow I managed to live through the early experiences but took a course and became "certified" on June 1, 1963 by an organization called SCIP. Anyone who thinks they can learn to dive by watching the PADI or NAUI tapes without going through a proper instruction course is a fool and I will look for their names in the obituary colum on some unnamed date in the future.

I have watched the reports of deaths of non-cave certified divers (about 1 per month by my best estimates) who dive in Florida springs who think they are qualified to dive because they have read an article or two on cave diving. I have witnessed errors by divers (see my examples in the training forum) some of which are comical, some of which are disgusting and most of which are dangerous. I am an instructor for five different agencies and have taken three training courses under qualified instructors in the last year myself. I don't know it all and there are things I am not fully qualified to teach myself. The first rule of scuba diving is "don't hold your breath" but the second is "There are old divers and there are bold divers but there are no old bold divers." I hope you will reconsider your traing regimine for future courses--through whatever agency.

Jim
"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."
Thomas Jefferson
"There is nothing more terrifying than ignorance in action."
Goethe
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep, voting on what to eat for dinner; Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote."
Thomas Jefferson
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken:




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users