104 replies to this topic

[WreckWench]

.....the first thing I am asked within a few minutes of meeting a woman is "what do you do for a living" which just another way of asking how much money I make. At that point the conversation often ends.

This could simply be a conversation starter.... to get a guy to talk about himself so we can see how he comports himself during a conversation and get some clues about him. I don't personally know how much every job description earns, do you? We are not defined by our earnings, but we ARE somewhat defined by our choice in jobs. Case in point: I'm an accountant. To do that job, you really have to be detail-oriented and somewhat anal about accuracy. That describes the professional side of me pretty well! Further into the conversation, you will discover that I have an unusual and interesting job history and that I'm very adventurous in my personal life.....

Yep a gun slinging... tank driving... tank maintenance & repair accountant!!!!


PRICELESS!!!

[WreckWench]

By definition, most women in general are high maintenance, and good, bad, or indifferent most men are visual and looking for arm candy. So how do those of us/you find each other? I have no clue, but let me know when you figure it out! Personally, I am not interested in how much money a woman has, if she is model perfect, or what kind of car she drives. It does seem to me however, that the first thing I am asked within a few minutes of meeting a woman is "what do you do for a living" which just another way of asking how much money I make. At that point the conversation often ends.

First off stroke1970 and thank you for posting!

I do believe that you hold a popular consensus when you say that most men think women in general are high maintenance. After all if a woman COULD @!&%, shower & shave in 10 minutes no guy would be interested anyway. Not that you said that but the very act of being female is high maintenance and not understandable to most men to begin with.

I also agree that most men could be accused of merely wanting arm candy...actually deep down we all want that truthfully BUT the difference is whether the arm candy can also carry on an intelligent conversation and has other qualities besides being attractive.

As Tammy mentioned...many men define themselves by what they do...I'm a doctor, I'm an engineer etc. they don't say "I practice medicine or I build things". Therefore to get to know someone women often ask what they do for a living. However also keep in mind that if you are speaking to a single female who ultimately is speaking to you as a single male (vs say a co-worker, etc.) then she will innately seek to figure out if you will be a good provider and potential good father of children. She is a bit hardwired to do this so while some women have actively pursued the 'how much do you make' concept too far...its a natural part of the selection process. And the quicker someone identifies their 'deal breakers' the quicker they can say 'next' and not waste yours OR the other person's time.

Wouldn't you hate for a gal to beat around the bush and go out with you a few times until she *finally* discovered that you did not make enough money for her tastes and drop you? Wouldn't it be *nicer* if she determined this sooner (say the first time she met you) and did not waste your time, feelings and money by going on a few dates to find this out???

My deal breaker was kids...I wanted them and most men did not. It took awhile but I could determine within 5 mins of talking to someone if they were a potential mate. I finally figured out a sequence of questions that would let me get my deal breaker into the open within 5 mins of meeting someone. I would ask what they do. They would ask what I do. They would ultimately tell me I have a cool job and I would say yes but I would give it up in a heartbeat to have a family including kids. At this point 99% of them told me I was crazy and no one in their right mind should give up such a great job for kids. Or they would say 'been there done that and won't do it again."

Either way I knew within 5 mins if they held any potential as a possible mate for me. And I saved BOTH of us time by discovering this quickly. Truth is when I was younger I was not so efficient/direct. I guess I thought EVERYONE wanted kids and so I didn't have to be so direct in asking it. After a number of relationships that finally evolved to the point where kids came up...I realized that the person I was with did not want kids. I guess you could look at it and say I used the guy cuz I went out with him for however long and then ended it because he didn't want kids. But truthfully I made a bad assumption and I also thought it was rude/crass to shop for my 'deal makers' and immediately exclude someone if they had one of my 'deal breakers' when I was younger.

Truth is people do not change for the better...only for the worse so when you are dating its usually as good as it gets and no matter how great you are or they are...if you don't see eye to eye on something fundamental such as marriage, kids, money, etc. then you NEVER will no matter how much time you spend with that person.

So finding out if someone is compatible SOONER vs later is BETTER!!! And if you don't make enough money for her then so be it but why not turn the tides and see if that is what she is really asking you...ASK HER WHAT SHE DOES FOR A LIVING AND WHAT SHE DOES FOR FUN THEN CONJECTURE THAT SHE PROBABLY MAKES A LOT OF MONEY AND WOULDN'T LIKE A POOR STARVING ARTIST/SCUBABUM/FLEDGLING NEW BUSINESS OWNER LIKE YOU.

She will either agree with you or start to convince you that she is not wired that way...or she doesn't make that much money and money is not that important etc. Then you can better see if she is really just trying to get to know you or only interested in how wealthy you are.

[ev780]

First off stroke1970 and thank you for posting!

I do believe that you hold a popular consensus when you say that most men think women in general are high maintenance. After all if a woman COULD @!&%, shower & shave in 10 minutes no guy would be interested anyway. Not that you said that but the very act of being female is high maintenance and not understandable to most men to begin with.

I also agree that most men could be accused of merely wanting arm candy...actually deep down we all want that truthfully BUT the difference is whether the arm candy can also carry on an intelligent conversation and has other qualities besides being attractive.

As Tammy mentioned...many men define themselves by what they do...I'm a doctor, I'm an engineer etc. they don't say "I practice medicine or I build things". Therefore to get to know someone women often ask what they do for a living. However also keep in mind that if you are speaking to a single female who ultimately is speaking to you as a single male (vs say a co-worker, etc.) then she will innately seek to figure out if you will be a good provider and potential good father of children. She is a bit hardwired to do this so while some women have actively pursued the 'how much do you make' concept too far...its a natural part of the selection process. And the quicker someone identifies their 'deal breakers' the quicker they can say 'next' and not waste yours OR the other person's time.

Wouldn't you hate for a gal to beat around the bush and go out with you a few times until she *finally* discovered that you did not make enough money for her tastes and drop you? Wouldn't it be *nicer* if she determined this sooner (say the first time she met you) and did not waste your time, feelings and money by going on a few dates to find this out???

My deal breaker was kids...I wanted them and most men did not. It took awhile but I could determine within 5 mins of talking to someone if they were a potential mate. I finally figured out a sequence of questions that would let me get my deal breaker into the open within 5 mins of meeting someone. I would ask what they do. They would ask what I do. They would ultimately tell me I have a cool job and I would say yes but I would give it up in a heartbeat to have a family including kids. At this point 99% of them told me I was crazy and no one in their right mind should give up such a great job for kids. Or they would say 'been there done that and won't do it again."

Either way I knew within 5 mins if they held any potential as a possible mate for me. And I saved BOTH of us time by discovering this quickly. Truth is when I was younger I was not so efficient/direct. I guess I thought EVERYONE wanted kids and so I didn't have to be so direct in asking it. After a number of relationships that finally evolved to the point where kids came up...I realized that the person I was with did not want kids. I guess you could look at it and say I used the guy cuz I went out with him for however long and then ended it because he didn't want kids. But truthfully I made a bad assumption and I also thought it was rude/crass to shop for my 'deal makers' and immediately exclude someone if they had one of my 'deal breakers' when I was younger.

Truth is people do not change for the better...only for the worse so when you are dating its usually as good as it gets and no matter how great you are or they are...if you don't see eye to eye on something fundamental such as marriage, kids, money, etc. then you NEVER will no matter how much time you spend with that person.

So finding out if someone is compatible SOONER vs later is BETTER!!! And if you don't make enough money for her then so be it but why not turn the tides and see if that is what she is really asking you...ASK HER WHAT SHE DOES FOR A LIVING AND WHAT SHE DOES FOR FUN THEN CONJECTURE THAT SHE PROBABLY MAKES A LOT OF MONEY AND WOULDN'T LIKE A POOR STARVING ARTIST/SCUBABUM/FLEDGLING NEW BUSINESS OWNER LIKE YOU.

She will either agree with you or start to convince you that she is not wired that way...or she doesn't make that much money and money is not that important etc. Then you can better see if she is really just trying to get to know you or only interested in how wealthy you are.

WOW! Where does a guy start to reply to this. There is a lot of insight into the Wenchie in those words.

You are 100% correct on the "Arm Candy" thing. We all (male and female) want it, but it is like a weak anchor while climbing. Eventually it will give way if the candy can't carry on a conversation. All men bitch about the "high maintenance" of just being a woman. But secretly we love it! (don't spread that around) It shows you care about yourself and your man. Just don't make us late!

I think your selection question was flawed!! We men ARE defined by what we do! Our job is to provide and our career is the way we do it. Just look at what happens when a man get fired vs when a woman get fired. There was an old e-mail about that. Women are WAY more pragmatic while men are devastated!! We tie up a lot of our self worth in what we do and that is really a big part of what makes us what we are. Watch two men meet each other for the first time. Job will be 2nd or 3rd question we ask each other. So to say "They would ultimately tell me I have a cool job and I would say yes but I would give it up in a heartbeat to have a family including kids. At this point 99% of them told me I was crazy...." does not actually answer your question. Men don't give up their job (read self worth) for a family. Doesn't at all mean that they don't want a family, it just means that they cannot give up the means of providing for that family.

My problem with your "sooner is better" theory, is that I do not make a great first impression. My particular curse. Don't know why, but it usually takes a while for people to warm up to me. Maybe I try to hard or I am a little closed. Hard to say. What that means for me is that first dates are usually last dates. So it goes. We keep fighting onward.

I disagree strongly with your statement that people don't change for the better. I am a much better person today than I was years ago. Even yesterday for that matter. I like to think I am getting better every day!! {insert delusional smiley here}

So in a nutshell, high maintenance, low maintenance, no matter!!! Intellectual, emotional, and; right or wrong, physical chemistry is a must.

F

Edited by ev780, 08 December 2010 - 10:59 AM.

[WreckWench]

A few RARE people are on a path of continuous self improvement...and remember just because you think its improvement the love of your life may not..ergo the generalized statement.

As for not making a great first impression...I totally agree. I do fairly well depending on where you meet me! And other times not so great.

And of course under what circumstances you are met...fortunately I was never REALLY on the hunt and had turned it over to a higher power that if I was to meet someone then I would. If not I would have a ton of great friends.

I think if more people did this they would be happier. Just remember if you pray to win the lottery that you have to buy a ticket. If you pray to meet the right person...make sure you are putting yourself out there.

My point was that you COULD decide fairly early on if someone had potential ie. did not have one of your deal breakers if you work at it. And its valuable to work at it. That is why I suggested to stroke1970 he could better determine if a woman was only after money by the way he chatted with her when he first met her. Trust but verify sort of thing.

The whole dialog about why women ask what you do was to show that it was NOT solely a means to see how big your wallet was. Although it could be...but usually people (men and women) ask that question as a way to start conversation.

Great input ev780...

[stroke1970]

Thanks for the welcome! I don't have a problem with high maintenance in general. It comes with the territory and being that I have a 13 year old daughter that doodles around with her hair forever in the morning has taught me great patience! Among males, society has tied up and invested a great deal of our percieved value in what we do for a living. Again, good, bad, or indifferent it is just a fact of life. One thing I have figured out is that 40 years from now when my grandchildren and possibly great grandchildren are running circles around me, no one is going to care what I did for a living. I no longer identify myself by what I do, but by what am which is a Daddy first and foremost. Beyond that, the rest is insignificant details.

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

I no longer identify myself by what I do, but by what am which is a Daddy first and foremost.

That right there speaks volumes!!!

[ScubaSis]

Wow!! Good conversation!!

I agree that a man will ask another man what he does within the first few minutes of conversation. I heard this happen on my last airplane ride. It gave the men something to talk about. Also within the first couple of minutes they asked about marriage and kids. The two men chatted for 2 hrs about work and family.

I think as a single person we have our alarms that ring with certain topics. But also most people will ask about job and family when meeting someone. We have to be able to sort out the mix....and this is something I fail at!! Ha!! Determining rather a person is looking for that Sugar Mama/Daddy can be very difficult!!

[lynnlchan]

You are 100% correct on the "Arm Candy" thing. We all (male and female) want it...

No we don't. Or by 'arm candy' do you mean kind, caring, smart and funny? Maybe I misunderstood. Some men are very handsome and become less so with every word spoken. Some men are average looking and become stunning with 15 minutes of conversation.

And not ALL women are high maintenance. That's like saying ALL women are smart, dumb, tall, fat, skinny, short... If that's your experience then maybe you're seeking out a particular type of woman and generalizing about the gender as a whole.

I'm one of those women that would ask what you do. Sometimes it's because you've said something that piqued my interest, or because it may help me to know how to communicate with you (are you an artist or a lawyer) or because I am trying to figure out what you make. If it's the latter, it's usually because I'm not sure if we're financially compatible. I don't expect a man to support me, nor do I expect to support him. I enjoy several hobbies, some more expensive, some less. I want a relationship to provide companionship and that includes some of my hobbies. I might be evaluating if a man can provide that.

And I know some folks will be upset by this but it's a red flag to me as a single female when a man only defines himself as a parent. Are you a son? Do you have interests? Do you have friends? Do you spend a number of hours each week earning an income? Being multi-faceted adds layers of depth and interest to a person.

[WreckWench]

I no longer identify myself by what I do, but by what am which is a Daddy first and foremost.

That right there speaks volumes!!!

KUDOS!!! Well said by BOTH!!!

[ev780]

You are 100% correct on the "Arm Candy" thing. We all (male and female) want it...

No we don't. Or by 'arm candy' do you mean kind, caring, smart and funny? Maybe I misunderstood. Some men are very handsome and become less so with every word spoken. Some men are average looking and become stunning with 15 minutes of conversation.

And not ALL women are high maintenance. That's like saying ALL women are smart, dumb, tall, fat, skinny, short... If that's your experience then maybe you're seeking out a particular type of woman and generalizing about the gender as a whole.

I wasn't the first one to use the term "Arm candy" but my definition is basically the same as yours. It is "attractiveness" however the individual wants to define it.

"Some menwomen are very handsomeattractive and become less so with every word spoken. Some menwomen are average looking and become stunning with 15 minutes of conversation."----->truer words were never spoken!!!

The second path stated that just the fact of being a woman required more maintenance than that of a man. Hair, make-up, more complicated wardrobe, etc.

f

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

Hmmmm, we seem to have gone full circle now! Back to physical attractiveness.

I'm curious how "more maintenance than a man" has become "high maintenance" in this conversation, though. To me, "high maintenance" implies an extreme, not what is considered the norm. Based on what has evolved in our society, women have to wear makeup, shave most of her body, wear more undergarments, and dress attractively. To be fair, that is NOT "high maintenance", that is the norm.

High Maintenance is when a woman takes those rituals and insists upon them, in a high-end manner. Must shop for expensive clothes even if she has plenty in the closet; must wear high-end makeup brands and won't be seen without it applied; couldn't possibly go out even with the girls unless she outshines everyone around her; and insists that anyone she dates can take care of her expensive needs. Most in that category wouldn't be caught dead with salt water & seaweed in her hair..... but they'd wait for you in a lounge chair on the beach, being catered to by a cabana boy.

[drbill]

Now I understand why women run away when they ask me what I do, and I respond "I'm a dive bum." Fortunately there are a few who understand that by being a dive bum I have the freedom to pursue my higher goals in life of educating people about the marine environment and the need to protect it. Two drop-dead gorgeous ladies find that incredibly sexy right now. Not being a player, I had to choose just one of them. Either would be wonderful arm candy, but with the ability to not only think and communicate well but with a shared passion for marine conservation.

[lynnlchan]

Now I understand why women run away when they ask me what I do, and I respond "I'm a dive bum."

Oh please. No one is buying that women run from you. Any woman with two ounces of brain would figure out you are far more than a ‘dive bum’. I’d have a thousand questions if someone told me that, male or female.

I find it interesting that men are bothered that women take their income into consideration. Money is one of the top three reasons couples argue. I’ve supported two men, both were financial wrecking balls. I have no intention of repeating that, and I have no desire to be supported. If a guy lives on what he makes – wonderful. If he’s spending a dime for every nickel he makes – not so good. If he’s making a nickel, spending a dime and looking to supplement his income with mine – b-bye.

Two hotties? Good for you! I hope it goes splendidly.

[WreckWench]

Tammy I do not thing EV780 or anyone for that matter equated high maintenance the extreme as you defined it to women being higher maintenance than men which by definition is a correct statement for many/most women. However I have known a few men who spent far more time on their hair/clothes etc than most women.

I will agree that it ALL DOES GO BACK TO ATTRACTIVENESS. The trick is how someone defines attractiveness?

I have yet to meet someone who spent quality time or even quantity time unless they found that person attractive in some way. It may be looks, or it may be what they can do for them or what they pay them i.e. attention, complements, things, money/security etc.

So YES it all does go back to attractiveness....and sometimes that attractiveness is traditional such as looks and sometimes it is non-traditional such as lifestyle.

Again I'll use my hubby...he is a dive bum so has no money, he is moderately attractive UNTIL he smiles and then his face lights up and he is extremely attractive to me. His lifestyle is compatible with mine so he is attractive in that respect. However if he were not also intelligent, hard working and a host of other things that are important to me...then I would not ultimately be attracted to him LONG TERM and STAY WITH HIM.

But I would not have dated someone I was not attracted too...nor would I have married them. And I think that is the root of every relationship...

No one hooks up with someone UNLESS they find them attractive in some shape, manner or form.

[georoc01]

I’ve supported two men, both were financial wrecking balls.

Ever considered moving to Colorado ?