104 replies to this topic

[Dave L]

Wonderful thread. I'm in my early 60's and the dating world is no different at this age. Sometimes it seems like high school all over again. Both sexes seem to be equally looking for the ideal - beautiful, rich...fill in the blank. Independent people seem to hang back from the game and spend a lot of time alone. A lot of the thoughts on this thread are very thought provoking. Both men and women can be high maintenance.

Dave

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

Independent people seem to hang back from the game and spend a lot of time alone.
Dave

Independent people don't need the 'game' aspect in their lives.

I have finally figured out that I'm happier alone (relationship-wise), than I was in an effort to play the game & impress someone, or make someone else happy. I am not lonely, as my life is full.

I think that defines independent, in the context of this thread.

[Dave L]

Independent people don't need the 'game' aspect in their lives.

I have finally figured out that I'm happier alone (relationship-wise), than I was in an effort to play the game & impress someone, or make someone else happy. I am not lonely, as my life is full.

Not sure how to box that in but your response is how I feel about it. I stopped playing the games and started living. Much happier since. I found that a lot of people still play the old high school games when I got out in the dating world. I'm not lonely either as I have a very fulfilling life. Alone can take on a lot of meanings. At my age, most are fairly independent. It just comes down to how much baggage do you want to put up with. Both men and women carry some baggage, some more than others.

Dave

[BigBen]

I definately agree with what you said. As I am only 23, however with school and what I do for work, I am gone for months at a time and it is definately more important to have someone who is independent who can also have their own life while I am away.

[globefish]

Hello Everyone
After Kamala posted this thread I logged on and just finished reading the posts from start to finish.
And I cannot stop myself from commenting.
First - to all you men that like strong independent women - I commend you. And thank you.

Second to all you independent women out there that have replied so far - I know most of you and girls
don't think for a minute that you are not attractive.

I am very bothered by the fact that the conversation keeps coming back to equating strong independent women
with unattractiveness. This is wrong. IMO. There are many many gorgeous women that are self sufficient,
educated and independent. Some even wear nice clothes and make-up - a least some of the time
when they are above water.

I think the few men that commented earlier - and I am rushing out to a meeting - (yes I work at times)
and so do not have the time to look up the thread, but they commented on things like the fact that
"men like to be needed" and that non independent women will "tell them what they want to hear."
I think this runs closer to the issue,

A self sufficient woman will wear nice clothes and make up when she wants to - she will do so
for reasons other than just catching a man because she has more to offer and more important issues
on her mind. Such as self respect. WHat I mean is - she may have to work late in order to pay the mortgage - and then
she probably has to juggle a gazzillion things and find a baby sitter before she goes on a date with you
because she is a responsible person.

A dependent woman will spend her day putting on makeup and getting her nails done because that is her priority -
catching you so she does not have to pay the mortgage herself, She will tell you what you want to hear and she
will be whatever you want her to be and you think you have found the perfect woman.

Anyway, I am late for a meeting or is it a brow waxing and tint - just to keep you guessing -
Great conversation and if my brows were not such a mess I have much much more to say on the topic.
Damn I broke a nail writing this post.

More later
Joanne
xxx00

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

Anyway, I am late for a meeting or is it a brow waxing and tint - just to keep you guessing -
Great conversation and if my brows were not such a mess I have much much more to say on the topic.
Damn I broke a nail writing this post.

Joanne, that was a GREAT way to end your post!

[globefish]

Anyway, I am late for a meeting or is it a brow waxing and tint - just to keep you guessing -
Great conversation and if my brows were not such a mess I have much much more to say on the topic.
Damn I broke a nail writing this post.

Joanne, that was a GREAT way to end your post!

Hi Tammy
I am back - and the brows look hot!

I seldom post but I have a lot to say on this topic.
Bear with me, I have one other comment I just have to make.

Someone said independent people spend a lot of time alone.
And I think that is true.

This is my opinion.

An independent woman wants a real relationship.
She expects a lot out of her partner - and thus she is also high maintenance.
She expects respect and maturity and financial responsibility and honesty. (I am not forgetting hot sex but that comes as result of the aforementioned.)
If she receives this from her partner, she will give it back in spades.
If she does not get this, she moves on.

A dependent woman may want these things but she will settle. If you pay the bill, she isn't going anywhere.

The question I pose is why do so many men not want the same thing???
WHy is arm candy so appealing? (Beyond the obvious) This is a serious question.

Case in point. Charlie Sheen.
When questioned in an television interview - one of the goddesses had this to say -
"WHatever Charlie says is alright with me. Before I met him I was riding the bus to my $8 an hour job."

I kid you not. Now I may be using a whacko to make my point but it is certainly not his charm or his intelligence that is the drawing factor.

or I could use a certain elderly gentleman that wears pyjamas and recently announced his engagement to a 20 something bombshell.

Need I say more? Is this something to be proud of? Is it not obvious that a sane independent woman would not put themselves in such a position.

IMO it has to do with control issues and insecurity.

So all you secure men out there that like independent women - go for it - get out there and ask a self sufficient women on a date.
You won't be disappointed. Trust me.

Now I've said my piece. I would be interested in your comments.


Joanne

[Diver Ed]

Hi Tammy
I am back - and the brows look hot!

I seldom post but I have a lot to say on this topic.
Bear with me, I have one other comment I just have to make.

Someone said independent people spend a lot of time alone.
And I think that is true.

This is my opinion.

An independent woman wants a real relationship.
She expects a lot out of her partner - and thus she is also high maintenance.

Hello Joanne,

I will agree with a lot of what you wrote, with the exception of the last line above. An independant woman has a right to expect a lot out of her partner. That would not make her high maintenance. If a person understands their value and self worth, puts a lot of effort into life and self independance, and then also puts a lot of themselves into a relationship, they deserve to get a lot from their partner. Ed

[georoc01]

Another line that can be grey is independence vs commitment. After all, if two people are totally independent, how commited are they to the relationship and each other?

When I am in a totally committed relationship, there is a level of co-dependence that brings us together more than just the occasional date night that casual dating is about. Otherwise the relationship is just a matter of convenience when both parties have the time to get together.

Its when you start sacrificing that independence to be with someone else that a relationship can grow, but it has to be mutual.

[Dave L]

Another line that can be grey is independence vs commitment. After all, if two people are totally independent, how commited are they to the relationship and each other?

When I am in a totally committed relationship, there is a level of co-dependence that brings us together more than just the occasional date night that casual dating is about. Otherwise the relationship is just a matter of convenience when both parties have the time to get together.

Its when you start sacrificing that independence to be with someone else that a relationship can grow, but it has to be mutual.

Very interesting points. I was married 35 years and it was definitely a very committed relationship. We both did our own things at times, but it was together that we were more than the sum of the parts. Now that I am widowed I'm having a hard time figuring out the relationship thing. That is why I am staying independent. Don't want anything as a matter of convenience.

Been a great thread with lots of things to think about. Thanks to everyone.

Dave

[WreckWench]

WOW! Joanne...great thought provoking comments. And spot on!

[globefish]

Hi Tammy
I am back - and the brows look hot!

I seldom post but I have a lot to say on this topic.
Bear with me, I have one other comment I just have to make.

Someone said independent people spend a lot of time alone.
And I think that is true.

This is my opinion.

An independent woman wants a real relationship.
She expects a lot out of her partner - and thus she is also high maintenance.

Hello Joanne,

I will agree with a lot of what you wrote, with the exception of the last line above. An independant woman has a right to expect a lot out of her partner. That would not make her high maintenance. If a person understands their value and self worth, puts a lot of effort into life and self independance, and then also puts a lot of themselves into a relationship, they deserve to get a lot from their partner. Ed

Hi there.
Thanks very much for saying that.
Joanne

[globefish]

Another line that can be grey is independence vs commitment. After all, if two people are totally independent, how commited are they to the relationship and each other?

When I am in a totally committed relationship, there is a level of co-dependence that brings us together more than just the occasional date night that casual dating is about. Otherwise the relationship is just a matter of convenience when both parties have the time to get together.

Its when you start sacrificing that independence to be with someone else that a relationship can grow, but it has to be mutual.

Interesting question. I am still pondering that one.

Off the top of my head.
In a healthy relationship two independent people can have a committed relationship because they want to.
Because they are stronger and better in a partnership. It is a rational well thought out decision.

Codependence involves need and "I need you to need me" dysfunction. Need involves irrationality and the meeting of immediate
needs. Emotional decisions.

Having said that I am divorced so what the h#@@ do I know.

Just trying to make sense of the world.
Easier to say than do.
I'll ask my shrink!

Joanne

[globefish]

Another line that can be grey is independence vs commitment. After all, if two people are totally independent, how commited are they to the relationship and each other?

When I am in a totally committed relationship, there is a level of co-dependence that brings us together more than just the occasional date night that casual dating is about. Otherwise the relationship is just a matter of convenience when both parties have the time to get together.

Its when you start sacrificing that independence to be with someone else that a relationship can grow, but it has to be mutual.

Very interesting points. I was married 35 years and it was definitely a very committed relationship. We both did our own things at times, but it was together that we were more than the sum of the parts. Now that I am widowed I'm having a hard time figuring out the relationship thing. That is why I am staying independent. Don't want anything as a matter of convenience.

Been a great thread with lots of things to think about. Thanks to everyone.

Dave

Well said.
J

[Lloyd Christmas]

Lets see if I can word all of this right.

I see a lot of wonderful single women being passed over and it really made me start to watch and wonder why.

I find that a lot of men will choose a high maintenence woman over an independent yet laid back sort of woman. I asked around some and the most common answer I have gotten is that the high maintenance type makes a man feel needed.

What do you men have to say about this subject??

Have any other women found this to be the case??

I'm going to let you in on a man secret: What you women refer to as high maintenance, men call attractive. What you women call independant, men think of unattractive with 6 cats, hairy legs and a bookshelf full of romance novels....Yes there are exceptions but they are rare. When my mom told me in third grade that the if the girls didnt like me, then they were not worth it....what she should have said was, comb your hair, bath more often, and quit picking your nose....it didn't help that I was an ugly child either...

some times the truth hurts....do you know why you very seldom will find a snoooty, unattractive, chubby single woman???? It's because they can't get away with what the high maintenance women can...They have to be nice, this is why we as a society resent the opportunities giving to the attractive classs....at least us uglies can think we have great personalities....