Jump to content

  • These forums are for "after booking" trip communications, socializing, and/or trip questions ONLY.
  • You will NOT be able to book a trip, buy add-ons, or manage your trip by logging in here. Please login HERE to do any of those things.

Photo

SLR Camera wanted, please advise


  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#31 Scubawishes

Scubawishes

    Meeting folks

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Location:NYC
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:Open Water Certification
  • Logged Dives:200ish

Posted 03 March 2011 - 12:30 PM

I think I am going to get the Canon t2i, so at least I am getting somewhere. Still a way to go...

Edited by Scubawishes, 03 March 2011 - 12:33 PM.

~K

#32 peterbj7

peterbj7

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,068 posts
  • Location:San Pedro (Belize) & Oxford (UK)
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Instructor
  • Logged Dives:over 4000

Posted 03 March 2011 - 01:33 PM

I appreciate that the OP is faced with a dilemma, with so much information coming in from all sides. When I'm in that position I usually stop and think again about what I'm proposing doing. In this case I would try to join an U/W camera club, see what people choose and why, learn the limitations of different solutions, and only then perhaps take the plunge. There's an enormous amount of money at stake, and there are so many ways to get it wrong.

On insurance, I am British and have seen the way insurance companies behave over there. I can't believe the US is any different. I am deeply skeptical of cheap policies which seem to offer the earth. I will write down the specific risks I want the insurance to cover, the things that could go wrong that would cause me loss, and ask for evidence from actual claims paid that the insurer will in fact pay in those circumstances. I also want to know what the repercussions of a claim will be on my future insurability. It's all very well saying "add it to your house insurance" and that may be the best thing to do, but if you make a claim and it's paid what will happen to the premium demanded next year?

I do not "trust" insurance companies to do anything or pay anything they are not legally obliged to do - I have seen too many instances of the opposite. Insurers will mostly grasp at straws to avoid paying on a claim, and unfortunately one particular straw is always there for them - the requirement recognised in law for the insured to mitigate his loss. This can be interpreted in many ways, normally in the insurer's favour.

I might add that my brother is an actuary who has worked in insurance his whole life in several countries, and I have learned a lot from him.

#33 Landlocked Dive Nut

Landlocked Dive Nut

    I need to get a life

  • Inactive
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,543 posts
  • Location:Kansas City, MO
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:SSI Master Diver
  • Logged Dives:448

Posted 03 March 2011 - 01:54 PM

It's all very well saying "add it to your house insurance" and that may be the best thing to do, but if you make a claim and it's paid what will happen to the premium demanded next year?


Good point, but here in the US you don't have to make any claim against your own house policy at all for 20 consecutive years, and your premium will go up every year because of a disaster that happened nowhere near you.....seems the insurance companies bear no risk whatsoever because their collective policy holders pay for the claims.

Not to go off topic....just wanted Peter to know how it works here!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled camera discussion! :D
Posted Image

#34 peterbj7

peterbj7

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,068 posts
  • Location:San Pedro (Belize) & Oxford (UK)
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Instructor
  • Logged Dives:over 4000

Posted 03 March 2011 - 02:51 PM

Insurance goes up inexorably in the UK as well, but if you have a bad claim record it goes up even more.

But you say the insurers bear no risk but merely pay claims out of premiums. Of course they do! How else will they pay claims? They do bear a risk, and that is that they got their premiums wrong and they end up having to pay out more than they've taken in. This happens occasionally to all insurers, especially Lloyds of London, but it can't go on systemically or the company will go bust. Our only protection as consumers is that insurance is a competitive business, and any insurer who simply charges more than others without giving commensurate benefits won't be around for long.

#35 secretsea18

secretsea18

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,007 posts
  • Location:NYC when not diving!
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:AOW
  • Logged Dives:1062

Posted 03 March 2011 - 08:29 PM

The more that you ask a lens to do, the more you give up on the quality end. That leaves people with a choice of a standard focal length lens or a zoom. The zoom gives a lot more options, but usually gives up a bit of quality. As a non professional, I prefer the benefits of the zoom lens. When you add the macro option to a lens, there are very few zoom macro options. You then run into the issue of finding a port that is compatible with that lens. I am not aware of any, but that does not mean that other housings accommodate it. Maybe Robin knows of one. If I had my 60 macro lens on, and a shark swam by, I would look to take a different kind of picture. I would look for a head shot, instaed of a full body shot. In reality, I would probabl;y be focusing on a cleaner shrimp or something, and never even see the shark. Likewise, if I have a wide angle lens on, and see a seahorse, I will just appreciate it without the picture. Ed


Wait...I want to shoot close up, very much so. I would like a lens that can capture the eye of a fish for example and be able to snap a shark going by if I'm lucky enough. Is that possible? Mostly I shoot close up though. What say you oh wise one? :P :)


I am sorry but can't figure out which quote code goes with which quote... so:

As mentioned there is no single lens that does it all. In general you commit to small or large subjects with your lens selection.

For macro, meaning head and shoulders diver to tiny shrimp at 1:1 magnification, the workhorse lenses are the 60 mm and the 105mm lens. I prefer the 60 mm, because I can use it in more situations, such as the head and shoulder diver, shark face, fish faces and for all the tiny things that I like the most, shrimps, bobtail squids and tiny nudibranchs. It decreases the water between the subject and lens which will increase the quality of the image. (too bad I can't put up an image here) Also the strobes are closer to the subject, so you can use a smaller strobe or lower setting to illuminate your subject. All pluses. There is a misconception that the 105 mm give a larger magnification than the 60mm. They are the same in magnification. The 105mm allows more distance between the subject and lens, useful for skittish subjects only. That is the advantage of the 105mm.

The choice of WA is personal choice. As I said I have the 24-50mm which I used when I used the Nikon F100 (fantastic camera, BTW). I now have a digital D80 which has a 1.6X crop factor. This makes my 24-50 in reality a 38-78 mm -ish lens. That is not very wide angle to me. If I am going to use the dome port and try to do wide angle, I want a wide angle lens. So I got the Tokina 10-17 zoom lens (in 1.6X crop terms it is really a 16-25mm lens), this lens rates very favorably for sharpness at the edges and has great optics. It also has a very close focus plane which means that you are able to take pictures by just putting the dome port into, say and anemone and have everything be in focus. :P This is a good thing for wide angle. The real trick with the 10-17mm lens is keeping your strobes and fins out of the picture.

That's all I know about this stuff. Call your UW camera store and ask any thing else you want to know.

#36 peterbj7

peterbj7

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,068 posts
  • Location:San Pedro (Belize) & Oxford (UK)
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Instructor
  • Logged Dives:over 4000

Posted 03 March 2011 - 08:59 PM

Don't Nikons have a 1.5x crop factor?

#37 Diver Ed

Diver Ed

    Everyone knows me

  • Premier Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 894 posts
  • Location:Hilton Head S.C.
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:AOW, NITROX, SOLO
  • Logged Dives:logged, 1000 plus 20 years of unlogged diving

Posted 03 March 2011 - 09:37 PM

I believe that some are 1.5 and some are 1.6.


Don't Nikons have a 1.5x crop factor?



#38 peterbj7

peterbj7

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,068 posts
  • Location:San Pedro (Belize) & Oxford (UK)
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Instructor
  • Logged Dives:over 4000

Posted 03 March 2011 - 11:09 PM

I thought that all (modern) Nikons had a 1.5 crop factor, and all Canons one of 1.6.

#39 Diver Ed

Diver Ed

    Everyone knows me

  • Premier Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 894 posts
  • Location:Hilton Head S.C.
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:AOW, NITROX, SOLO
  • Logged Dives:logged, 1000 plus 20 years of unlogged diving

Posted 04 March 2011 - 06:20 AM

I thought I had read somewhere that Nikon had some models with a 1.6 crop factor. I was looking around a bit to check again this morning, but did not find it. I believe I was in error there, and Peter is correct.


I thought that all (modern) Nikons had a 1.5 crop factor, and all Canons one of 1.6.



#40 secretsea18

secretsea18

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,007 posts
  • Location:NYC when not diving!
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:AOW
  • Logged Dives:1062

Posted 04 March 2011 - 11:31 PM

Crop factor..... 1.5 or 1.6X ... whatever.

The difference is negligible...

#41 Scubawishes

Scubawishes

    Meeting folks

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Location:NYC
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:Open Water Certification
  • Logged Dives:200ish

Posted 06 March 2011 - 08:15 PM

[/quote]
I am sorry but can't figure out which quote code goes with which quote... so:

As mentioned there is no single lens that does it all. In general you commit to small or large subjects with your lens selection.

For macro, meaning head and shoulders diver to tiny shrimp at 1:1 magnification, the workhorse lenses are the 60 mm and the 105mm lens. I prefer the 60 mm, because I can use it in more situations, such as the head and shoulder diver, shark face, fish faces and for all the tiny things that I like the most, shrimps, bobtail squids and tiny nudibranchs. It decreases the water between the subject and lens which will increase the quality of the image. (too bad I can't put up an image here) Also the strobes are closer to the subject, so you can use a smaller strobe or lower setting to illuminate your subject. All pluses. There is a misconception that the 105 mm give a larger magnification than the 60mm. They are the same in magnification. The 105mm allows more distance between the subject and lens, useful for skittish subjects only. That is the advantage of the 105mm.

The choice of WA is personal choice. As I said I have the 24-50mm which I used when I used the Nikon F100 (fantastic camera, BTW). I now have a digital D80 which has a 1.6X crop factor. This makes my 24-50 in reality a 38-78 mm -ish lens. That is not very wide angle to me. If I am going to use the dome port and try to do wide angle, I want a wide angle lens. So I got the Tokina 10-17 zoom lens (in 1.6X crop terms it is really a 16-25mm lens), this lens rates very favorably for sharpness at the edges and has great optics. It also has a very close focus plane which means that you are able to take pictures by just putting the dome port into, say and anemone and have everything be in focus. :P This is a good thing for wide angle. The real trick with the 10-17mm lens is keeping your strobes and fins out of the picture.

That's all I know about this stuff. Call your UW camera store and ask any thing else you want to know.
[/quote]


I love your example of the focus with the anemone! Very funny & yet factual.

I believe I will end up with the 60 or 100whatever lens at some point for macro but for now I think I will work with the standard 18-55mm lens that comes with the camera. The port is only (and I say only because everything is sooo much $$$) $100ish+. So that is reasonable, though the thing looks so GIGANTIC. Actually the housing looks so huge too compared to the camera. It's pretty intimidating! :-D Anyway, I figure I will get the Ikelite housing the port mentioned and I haven't figured out whether to start out with one strobe or just go for two and try and get the best results. Either way, I pretty much decided to go with an ikelite TTL regardless. In addition, to answer some of my original other questions, I think I will purchase the Dan flood insurance and take out renters insurance for theft etc. So far those together seem like the best option.

I have not had any luck speaking with Backscatter, they don't seem to answer the phone, but they have also been away. However, I went to Adorama today in New York City- whoa that place is COOL! It was great being able to touch the items I am interested in and try to gain some more understanding. It was crazy busy, but everyone was very nice & helpful. Adorama is closed on Saturdays which at first seemed so bizarre AND in NYC no less. I understand now though as it is run by hasidic jews and therefore closed Friday afternoons and Saturdays. No biggie, but I was glad I called first. Oh and more coolness, a Leisurepro scuba shop is located above them which made for very convenient shopping. I picked up a SeaCURE custom mouthpiece for my snorkle, I love the one I have for my regulator.

Anyway, as for the camera, housing, strobes etc. it is all still confusing and wish I had a mentor, but I don't know anyone irl into underwater photograghy. I looked at some intro classes, but my schedule doesn't work with them. So, I will continue to jump in head first.

I can't thank you all enough for your help, it has all helped give me a point in the right direction. I have no idea where I would be in this exciting new endeavor if not for the people in this group! :thankyou:

~K

#42 peterbj7

peterbj7

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,068 posts
  • Location:San Pedro (Belize) & Oxford (UK)
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Instructor
  • Logged Dives:over 4000

Posted 06 March 2011 - 11:13 PM

Adorame helped me out with a problem a few days ago so I'm feeling quite warmly towards them. Both the giant camera shops in NYC, Adorama and B&H, are run by strict Jews (don't know what "hasidic" is) so keep similar hours. I spent hours once browsing (and also unfortunately spending) in B&H and I've bought mail-order from Adorama, but I haven't been to their shop.

On the T2i, now that the T3i is out I expect those prices to fall. If you have time you might wait for that.

This is quite an adventure you're embarking on but you're starting the right way. I hope it all works out for you!

Edited by peterbj7, 06 March 2011 - 11:14 PM.


#43 secretsea18

secretsea18

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,007 posts
  • Location:NYC when not diving!
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:AOW
  • Logged Dives:1062

Posted 08 March 2011 - 09:09 PM


I love your example of the focus with the anemone! Very funny & yet factual.

I believe I will end up with the 60 or 100whatever lens at some point for macro but for now I think I will work with the standard 18-55mm lens that comes with the camera. The port is only (and I say only because everything is sooo much $) $100ish+. So that is reasonable, though the thing looks so GIGANTIC. Actually the housing looks so huge too compared to the camera. It's pretty intimidating! :-D Anyway, I figure I will get the Ikelite housing the port mentioned and I haven't figured out whether to start out with one strobe or just go for two and try and get the best results. Either way, I pretty much decided to go with an ikelite TTL regardless. In addition, to answer some of my original other questions, I think I will purchase the Dan flood insurance and take out renters insurance for theft etc. So far those together seem like the best option.

I have not had any luck speaking with Backscatter, they don't seem to answer the phone, but they have also been away. However, I went to Adorama today in New York City- whoa that place is COOL! It was great being able to touch the items I am interested in and try to gain some more understanding. It was crazy busy, but everyone was very nice & helpful. Adorama is closed on Saturdays which at first seemed so bizarre AND in NYC no less. I understand now though as it is run by hasidic jews and therefore closed Friday afternoons and Saturdays. No biggie, but I was glad I called first. Oh and more coolness, a Leisurepro scuba shop is located above them which made for very convenient shopping. I picked up a SeaCURE custom mouthpiece for my snorkle, I love the one I have for my regulator.

Anyway, as for the camera, housing, strobes etc. it is all still confusing and wish I had a mentor, but I don't know anyone irl into underwater photograghy. I looked at some intro classes, but my schedule doesn't work with them. So, I will continue to jump in head first.

I can't thank you all enough for your help, it has all helped give me a point in the right direction. I have no idea where I would be in this exciting new endeavor if not for the people in this group! :thankyou:

I did not realize you were here in NYC, too. I would be willing to help you to get your stuff, but would only be able to do it on Saturday or Sunday.

While I do not have PM privileges... perhaps we could meet up somewhere... must be a Starbucks nearby and discuss what you need.

I am perplexed as to why you are not getting through to Backscatter in California. They have alwys been wonderful.

#44 Scubawishes

Scubawishes

    Meeting folks

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Location:NYC
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:Open Water Certification
  • Logged Dives:200ish

Posted 12 March 2011 - 12:05 AM

I did not realize you were here in NYC, too. I would be willing to help you to get your stuff, but would only be able to do it on Saturday or Sunday.

While I do not have PM privileges... perhaps we could meet up somewhere... must be a Starbucks nearby and discuss what you need.

I am perplexed as to why you are not getting through to Backscatter in California. They have alwys been wonderful.


Thank you so very much, you are too kind! :hugs: However, I don't think there are any Starbucks around here. :P
~K

#45 secretsea18

secretsea18

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,007 posts
  • Location:NYC when not diving!
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:AOW
  • Logged Dives:1062

Posted 12 March 2011 - 09:02 AM

I did not realize you were here in NYC, too. I would be willing to help you to get your stuff, but would only be able to do it on Saturday or Sunday.

While I do not have PM privileges... perhaps we could meet up somewhere... must be a Starbucks nearby and discuss what you need.

I am perplexed as to why you are not getting through to Backscatter in California. They have alwys been wonderful.


Thank you so very much, you are too kind! :hugs: However, I don't think there are any Starbucks around here. :P


I thought I would offer to help you out... but since I can see at least 3 Starbucks from the window in my apartment in NYC...

I guess you have the information you need.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users