34 replies to this topic

[libra89]

I recently went on a trip and used a strobe for the first time. I am sold on it. I don't think I would take a camera down with out one now that I see the difference in my pics. I take mostly macro shots so I am very close to the subject. You can see my most recent attempts here.

https://picasaweb.go...CLLnv5f2kZDpxwE

You can see in a couple of the pics where I had the strobe set to high. The sea horse, the sexy shrimp and the porceline crab are a bit over exposed but other wise I am happy with the results. I have a single strobe. The camera is set on auto focus, 100iso and force flash so that he strobe goes off every time. I also have a small focus light mounted on the housing and I found this very useful for night dives.

Jim

I have to agree with the others that those are some pretty good photos.
Jeff

Thanks Jeff! I think with some work I can turn out some pretty good stuff. I did learn from this trip however why it is that photographers seem to hog a subject. It takes some time to really get the right shot and get the right focus.

Jim

Ah, yes....this is why I like the back of the dive bus, so to speak. As long as the critter sticks around, I'm good with letting everyone else take their peek, and then I don't have to feel so bad about "hogging" it for a bit. Of course, if the critter is your find, then you can take as long as you want before you share it with someone else This is the beauty of digital too....snap, review, adjust, snap, repeat (as often as necessary while the critter has patience and the current isn't carrying you or your dive group away)!

Tina

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

....Of course, if the critter is your find, then you can take as long as you want before you share it with someone else

This would make a good spin-off thread, and would have many differing opinions.

On the Philippines photo clinic trip, the trip leader would lecture all of us about taking a few minutes with a subject and then relinquishing it to the next photog. He told us that we could politely tap a photographer on the fin who was 'hogging' a specimin, reminding them there were others waiting in line.

Then the same trip leader would hound us for data on exactly what we saw every day, depth, time, location, etc. My foursome was especially good at (or lucky at) finding the rare, and we'd get grilled. Then the following day, he would go to that spot to find the unusual critter and squat on it for the entire dive, ignoring everyone else in his group who also wanted a picture or two....

[libra89]

....Of course, if the critter is your find, then you can take as long as you want before you share it with someone else

This would make a good spin-off thread, and would have many differing opinions.

On the Philippines photo clinic trip, the trip leader would lecture all of us about taking a few minutes with a subject and then relinquishing it to the next photog. He told us that we could politely tap a photographer on the fin who was 'hogging' a specimin, reminding them there were others waiting in line.

Then the same trip leader would hound us for data on exactly what we saw every day, depth, time, location, etc. My foursome was especially good at (or lucky at) finding the rare, and we'd get grilled. Then the following day, he would go to that spot to find the unusual critter and squat on it for the entire dive, ignoring everyone else in his group who also wanted a picture or two....

LOL!!! Bad, sneaky divemaster! Yes, if I had other photographers waiting in line, I'd move off and let them have a turn. In Fiji I was often all on my own with maybe one other photographer, or a good critter finder. She would spot them, take a look and then go off to find the next one while I was taking pictures of the current one. That worked out great. We also dove in really small groups of 4-6 divers per divemaster, and our divemaster was good at making sure everyone in the group, me included, got a chance to see the creature. And I'm not kidding about being the back of the bus. I really like that better because I hate that "hurry up, other's are waiting" feeling. In Cozumel I always took the back, and seemed to be OK. Everyone else viewed, then cleared out and moved on before I moved in to take pictures.

As a photographer, you have to be aware of whether or not others are there. I find that often if I am the back of the group, or semi split off, and others see me stop and photo take for a while, they will come over to see what the heck has my interest. This works out pretty well for me too. But I'm not always the best critter finder.

Anyway, we shouldn't hijack this thread!

[Dave L]

....Of course, if the critter is your find, then you can take as long as you want before you share it with someone else

This would make a good spin-off thread, and would have many differing opinions.

On the Philippines photo clinic trip, the trip leader would lecture all of us about taking a few minutes with a subject and then relinquishing it to the next photog. He told us that we could politely tap a photographer on the fin who was 'hogging' a specimin, reminding them there were others waiting in line.

Then the same trip leader would hound us for data on exactly what we saw every day, depth, time, location, etc. My foursome was especially good at (or lucky at) finding the rare, and we'd get grilled. Then the following day, he would go to that spot to find the unusual critter and squat on it for the entire dive, ignoring everyone else in his group who also wanted a picture or two....

LOL!!! Bad, sneaky divemaster! Yes, if I had other photographers waiting in line, I'd move off and let them have a turn. In Fiji I was often all on my own with maybe one other photographer, or a good critter finder. She would spot them, take a look and then go off to find the next one while I was taking pictures of the current one. That worked out great. We also dove in really small groups of 4-6 divers per divemaster, and our divemaster was good at making sure everyone in the group, me included, got a chance to see the creature. And I'm not kidding about being the back of the bus. I really like that better because I hate that "hurry up, other's are waiting" feeling. In Cozumel I always took the back, and seemed to be OK. Everyone else viewed, then cleared out and moved on before I moved in to take pictures.

As a photographer, you have to be aware of whether or not others are there. I find that often if I am the back of the group, or semi split off, and others see me stop and photo take for a while, they will come over to see what the heck has my interest. This works out pretty well for me too. But I'm not always the best critter finder.

Anyway, we shouldn't hijack this thread!

I do think this would be a great thread, not to hijack this excellent one. I hate dive guides forcing you along to keep up with the group.

Dave

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

I'll request the split-out from post #19 on, so Heidi can have her thread on strobes back.

[WreckWench]

Split off as requested! And a good request too!

A few thoughts...

1. On a trip with LOTS of photographers...many will try to be the last one for the very reasons Tina and others stated. Works great unless everyone wants to be the last one.

2. Some photographers do pretty good to take 3-4 shots and then move one getting back in line if the REALLY want to shoot again. However some seem to have blinders on and dive bomb the critter to be the first one to take pictures oblivious to anyone else nearby. And while this can happen accidently especially if you saw the critter first and did not realize that others saw it as well...it should NOT happen if the critter is being pointed out by a DM or Guide. You need to look to see if others are closer and let them move in first. Or let the non-photogs look first and then move in to take pictures.

3. Etiquette does vary if YOU found the critter and if someone else found the critter. In the former you may not be aware others are near you especially if they were not when you found the critter. And others should be conscience that if you found it you should be able to spend a bit more time with the critter. You do need to let others have a chance if you realize they are there and if they have given you a reasonable period of time with the subject.

4. If a DM or guide finds a critter then everyone needs to take 3-4 pictures max if you have slow recovery on your camera and then move off and let the next person take a few shots. If you really want to take more then wait for everyone else to have a turn and then get back into line. Do not try to be the first one on the critter EVERY time. Let others have that honor as well.

5. Hone your navigation skills and break off from the group hanging out either higher or lower as long as your dive buddy is ok with that and you can minimize many of issues you encounter with a large number of photogs trying to all snap the same shots.

6. Do not forget to let non-photogs see the critter. They usually are very quick and can easily look then move on. The only exception is if they tend to scare the critter off and then you can take pictures first and move out to let the non-photog take a shot so if the critter is scared off accidently its not the end of the world.

7. Do onto others as you would have them do unto you. And don't be shy about talking about photography etiquette with others in the group Talking about it first saves a lot of frustration later!

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

Every dive group will have their own 'rules' for photographers. Make sure everyone in the group understands the etiquette that should be followed for that particular trip. Kamala has done a good job of outlining above what she expects from divers on her trips.

In many cases, it is possible for more than one person to take a picture at a time, from different angles. If I'm taking video of a subject, I have no problem with others coming in close to take still shots, as long as they don't bump me.

I would add that photographers can (seemingly without being aware of it) be the worst offenders when it comes to buoyancy and/or damaging the reef when trying to get a shot. I have seen people with cameras do some non-dive-PC things in the water.

Zero in your buoyancy so you don't lay or kneel on the bottom to get your shot. Even it the bottom is just sand, when you depart the area, you do put particles into the water that can ruin the next person's shot....and sometimes you silt up the entire area and taking photos after you becomes an exercise in futility. If it's muck diving, you don't have to touch the bottom to silt up the site....all you have to do is touch a finger down, or paddle-fin away when you're done taking pictures and the muck becomes part of the water around the subject.

And, look at what you're doing to the reef & to the bottom, not just through your viewfinder. Be aware of your fins and your tank, etc. because you can't always feel it, but they can come into contact with hard and soft corals and do damage.

Don't take me wrong! Not everyone with a camera has bad buoyancy or etiquette....far from it! I've seen some photogs with huge camera rigs and remarkable dive skills....but I've seen more that need situational awareness improvement.

I'm not perfect myself, but I keep working towards that goal!

[WreckWench]

WELL SAID TAMMY!!!

Diving with a camera is like starting over...things you took for granted you can no longer UNLESS you don't care if you hit the reef or stir stuff up.

The best way to move off a subject for the next person is to use your photo stick to push off and rise up. If you do not have a photostick then push off with a finger and inhale at the same time so you float up. DO NOT USE LITTLE FIN KICKS OR WAVE YOUR HANDS/ARMS to *fin* your way out. All you do is stir up the sand or move the critter or scare the subject off. EVERYONE KNOWS YOU DIDN'T MEAN IT BUT THAT DOESN'T HELP IN THE MOMENT.

Note: Even if your bouyancy is great and you barely fin...the harder you concentrate the more likely you are to fin harder without realizing it. Even MASTER photographers use photo sticks to help them get in LOW, CLOSE and QUIETLY without finning or stirring anything up.

Consider making your own or for $20 you can get one from SingleDivers.com HERE!

[Dave L]

I'll second getting one of Kamala's photo sticks.

I've come a long way since getting into this. Buoyancy control is critical, both for the reefs sake and the critters, not to mention your own.

If there are a lot of photographers on the dive it can get pretty crowded. At that point I tend to drift off away from everyone and work on finding critters on my own. If I miss something, so be it. A good excuse to come back. Lots of times I'll find something totally different. If there are only a few photographers I'll stick a lot closer.

Photographers usually make lousy dive buddies. Pairing them up usually makes them both happy. It helps for the photographers to have a chat ahead of time to iron out etiquette issues. Knowing how the dive guide wants things run ahead of time really helps.

Dave

[Parrotman]

I grew up in my diving career with photographers although I did not start taking pictures until several years and several hundred dives. I like to find critters and point them out to other photographers. Now that I have a decent camera I also like to take pictures of what I find. That being said, I fully expect the person that finds the critter to spend as much time as they want taking that picture. Once they are done I will go in for my turn. I personally do not think that the person that finds the critter has an obligation to move away before they are done. When I am diving with friends I will take a few, move away and then go back but other wise who ever finds it should have all the time they want.

When there is a situation where some one finds a critter, being another diver or the dive guide and someone swoops in and hogs the subject, I do not think that is acceptable. In that case they should show some manners and let everyone have a chance.

On a recent trip our dive guide found a juvenile cuttle fish. Very tiny. Perfect macro shot. I waited and waited and waited for everyone to get their pictures. It is a good thing that I am good on air, the average diver would have most likely used a half a tank of air for the time I waited. Once everyone got their shots I moved in and got in position to take my shots. My camera tells me when I am in focus. I do not have great vision for macro so I depend on my camera to tell me when it is ok to shoot. I guess to others I appear to be slow. I finally got the focus that I wanted and was ready to shoot when another diver came dive bombing in, ruined the shot and kicked up so much silt that I lost my chance. To say that I was furious was an understatement.

Of all divers, the ones that carry a camera should have enough common sense to play the game. I am also fully aware of what it is like to be a diver that does not have a camera and to be treated like they are second class. This not only happens underwater but it also happens on the boat. Guess what folks? Just because you own a camera does not make you special. It does not give you the right to be rude to non photographers. It does not give you the right to hog all of the dive deck with your equipment. And just because you think that you take good pictures does not make you the be all know all of the photography world. Your opinion of yourself is just that....

I'll get off my soap box now.. :-)

Be kind to other divers... have manners... and remember there are those who pee in their wet suits and everyone else lies about it....

[Greg@ihpil]

Kamala, I'll buy 1 as well.Since I'm taking a photo class ,this might be a helpful item.I will mail you a check to your S.C. address.I'll cover all expense.Item,shipping & Ins..

ORDERS & ORDERS STATUS:

1. DATE: Greg aka Greg@ihpil - (1) COLOR Stainless steel Payment Rec'd: ____ Shipped: _____

[Parrotman]

Kamala, I'll buy 1 as well.Since I'm taking a photo class ,this might be a helpful item.I will mail you a check to your S.C. address.I'll cover all expense.Item,shipping & Ins..

ORDERS & ORDERS STATUS:

1. DATE: Greg aka Greg@ihpil - (1) COLOR Stainless steel Payment Rec'd: ____ Shipped: _____

Probably the best $20 I have ever spent. Another benefit of a photo stick is diving in a strong current. You can find a safe place to stick it and use it as an anchor..

[Greg@ihpil]

Kamala, I'll buy 1 as well.Since I'm taking a photo class ,this might be a helpful item.I will mail you a check to your S.C. address.I'll cover all expense.Item,shipping & Ins..

ORDERS & ORDERS STATUS:

1. DATE: Greg aka Greg@ihpil - (1) COLOR Stainless steel Payment Rec'd: ____ Shipped: _____

Probably the best $20 I have ever spent. Another benefit of a photo stick is diving in a strong current. You can find a safe place to stick it and use it as an anchor..

Thank's for the opinion..Just concerned on the placement on my BC,so as not to drag or snag on something.

[WreckWench]

Kamala, I'll buy 1 as well.Since I'm taking a photo class ,this might be a helpful item.I will mail you a check to your S.C. address.I'll cover all expense.Item,shipping & Ins..

ORDERS & ORDERS STATUS:

1. DATE: Greg aka Greg@ihpil - (1) COLOR Stainless steel Payment Rec'd: ____ Shipped: _____

Probably the best $20 I have ever spent. Another benefit of a photo stick is diving in a strong current. You can find a safe place to stick it and use it as an anchor..

Thank's for the opinion..Just concerned on the placement on my BC,so as not to drag or snag on something.

Thank you for your order Greg! The BEST way to carry it IMO is on a wrist lanyard. Its in your hand waiting to be used but if you need to be handsfree you can safely drop it and its safe and sound. I've seen some put it on a retractable lanyard but that seems ackward to me. If its in your hand...you are likely to use it. Even MASTER photogs carry them in their hand READY to use. So that is my suggestion. If you need a wrist lanyard let me know. I have a dive shop a few feet away from the house!

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

Mine is attached to a very large brass clip. It easily attaches to a d-ring on my BC when I'm entering & exiting the water, and the brass clip fits my hand nicely. And, it doubles as a tank-banger so I can get the attention of my dive buddy if I need to.