330 replies to this topic

[annasea]

She didn't want to remain friends, unfortunately. I am still friends with my two previous girlfriends, though, one of whom was a very long-term (6-year) relationship.

Thanks for the answer!

I believe it's a common one. In general, I find that women usually become much more emotionally involved than men and it becomes difficult to 'only' be friends with someone that they once felt much more for. Maybe that's why some men's behaviour is so appalling to women in particular - we just 'feel' more!

Again, just a thought . . .

[Seahorsewrangler]

My question to the men: why is it so hard to be honest and upfront with a woman if you're just not that interested in pursuing  or continuing a relationship with her?

Drawing from my personal experiences..... I've always stated from the beginning that the truth-even if hurts- is all I ever expect, and therefore will respect that person for it.
To answer your question: Its not- I have and have had in done but as Walter has eluded to it's a maturity issue from both sexes and all personality traits. (excluding myself from any implied maturity level) Society has wrongly sub-consciencly trained our brains as to what is expected and we follow these unwritten laws/expectations that we believe are expected from us with dealing with the opposing sex, add the fact that of a realtionship (any length of time) and we have now introduced a 'personal' attachment to an already difficult task of being open/honest communication with, yes once again, the opposing sex.
So with the personal attachment we feel responsible for any hurt that maybe caused by our actions of a fore seen "death" of the relationship even thou it may blosom into a great friendship.
Just my rambling thoughts.

[ShamuLovesMe]

She didn't want to remain friends, unfortunately. I am still friends with my two previous girlfriends, though, one of whom was a very long-term (6-year) relationship.

Thanks for the answer!

I believe it's a common one. In general, I find that women usually become much more emotionally involved than men and it becomes difficult to 'only' be friends with someone that they once felt much more for. Maybe that's why some men's behaviour is so appalling to women in particular - we just 'feel' more!

Again, just a thought . . .

I don't think that's true at all (perhaps an accurate generalization of the men you've known, I don't know, but not a fair generalization of all men). I think some men "feel" as deeply as some women, just as some men "feel" even more deeply than some women, and vice versa. I don't think you can really generalize... it's much more circumstantial than that. In any given relationship, one person might "feel" less than the other -- perhaps to the point of wanting to break it off. Sometimes it's the man, sometimes the woman (as evidenced anecdotally in some of people's responses here).

As for being "just friends," yes, it's easier for the breaker to remain friends than for the breakee, but I've remained friends with past girlfriends with whom I've been both breaker and breakee. (Though I think it's most common for both people to go their separate ways.)

[annasea]

Sorry the quotes didn't work out right! I'm not sure what happened but I've tried to 'fix' them.

In general, I find that women usually become much more emotionally involved than men and it becomes difficult to 'only' be friends with someone that they once felt much more for. Maybe that's why some men's behaviour is so appalling to women in particular - we just 'feel' more!

Again, just a thought . . .

I don't think that's true at all (perhaps an accurate generalization of the men you've known, I don't know, but not a fair generalization of all men). I think some men "feel" as deeply as some women, just as some men "feel" even more deeply than some women, and vice versa. I don't think you can really generalize... it's much more circumstantial than that. In any given relationship, one person might "feel" less than the other -- perhaps to the point of wanting to break it off. Sometimes it's the man, sometimes the woman (as evidenced anecdotally in some of people's responses here).

annasea replied: Touche!

Actually, I wasn't even really thinking of the men I've known when I wrote my musings. I was merely relaying the perspective of my women friends and what some of their (and my experiences) have been to this point. It's a bias I need to work on I guess!

Thanks for the insight though!

[ev780]

Apparently, men "...would rather lose an arm out a city bus window than tell you simply, 'You're not the one.' We are quite sure you will kill us or yourself or both - even worse, cry and yell at us. We are pathetic."

This is it in a nutshell! We are pathetic!! (I can only speak for how I feel) We agonize over asking her out! Finally get the courage and a relationship develops. Now we must face failure and/or emotional turmoil. Sometimes the more pathetic of us (I have been that guy) would rather fade away than face the music. We don't want to hurt her or be hurt ourselves. Confrontation with women sucks. Y'all don't play fair.

Neither do we for that matter.

It's never easy. It sucks unless you are lucky enough to find the right one and you end up the right one for them. If you have the one, then hang on tight and don't sweat the small stuff. A lot of us lonely souls would love to have someone in our lives.

Fred
One of the pathetic.

[Sophia]

I'm surprised no one has pointed out the other side of the coin to a man no longer calling. A woman can, and sometimes will, just stop returning calls. I confess I used this technique once. In hindsight I regret it because he probably called a dozen times and each message got more pathetic. My only excuse was that I was young.

I most say, though, that those techniques mentioned in the book were used only once on me. The one time I was probably not ready to handle the truth.

[Fouch]

I just finished reading the book "He's Just Not That Into You" and boy, was it something! My only criticism is that it was too short - a mere 165 pages.

For those of you who aren't familiar with it, it's a book for women - written by a man and a woman - explaining men's behaviours in relationships. The subtitle is "The No-Excuses Truth to Understanding Guys".

My question to the men: why is it so hard to be honest and upfront with a woman if you're just not that interested in pursuing or continuing a relationship with her?

Apparently, men "...would rather lose an arm out a city bus window than tell you simply, 'You're not the one.' We are quite sure you will kill us or yourself or both - even worse, cry and yell at us. We are pathetic."

(Remember, this quote is coming from a heterosexual man.)

So why do so many men behave in such a cowardly fashion? Why is it so difficult to tell women the truth - even in instances where we've asked for it - rather than just 'disappear' (i.e. stop calling, emailing, etc.)? Do men really have that little respect, consideration, and courtesy for women?

Since I doubt most of the men on this forum are like this please share stories about your friends.

Sounds to me like that book you were reading was a very closed minded and one sided piece of literature. I have never had any problem letting a lady know we didn't "click." On the other hand though... I have been left hanging on more than one occasion. Why lead on? Perhaps people do it because they don't want to feel guilty for hurting someone, but what better way to do that than to drop off the face of the earth?

[ShamuLovesMe]

I'm surprised no one has pointed out the other side of the coin to a man no longer calling. A woman can, and sometimes will, just stop returning calls. I confess I used this technique once. In hindsight I regret it because he probably called a dozen times and each message got more pathetic. My only excuse was that I was young.

I most say, though, that those techniques mentioned in the book were used only once on me. The one time I was probably not ready to handle the truth.

Thank you for pointing this out. I too have gotten the silent treatment from more than one woman. One of them went so out of her way to avoid me that she stranded me at the airport after previously promising to pick me up. (I can laugh about it now, but damn was it aggravating when she didn't return my calls or even give me the slightest clue what was up.)

[ShamuLovesMe]

Apparently, men "...would rather lose an arm out a city bus window than tell you simply, 'You're not the one.' We are quite sure you will kill us or yourself or both - even worse, cry and yell at us. We are pathetic."

This is it in a nutshell! We are pathetic!! (I can only speak for how I feel) We agonize over asking her out! Finally get the courage and a relationship develops. Now we must face failure and/or emotional turmoil. Sometimes the more pathetic of us (I have been that guy) would rather fade away than face the music. We don't want to hurt her or be hurt ourselves. Confrontation with women sucks. Y'all don't play fair.

Neither do we for that matter.

It's never easy. It sucks unless you are lucky enough to find the right one and you end up the right one for them. If you have the one, then hang on tight and don't sweat the small stuff. A lot of us lonely souls would love to have someone in our lives.

Fred
One of the pathetic.

Fred, you're pathetic!

[Kriterian]

I know it's been said already but I think above all else communication is the key to a successful relationship. Not being able to end a relationship verbally is just another signal that the person can't/won't communicate with you. If that happens, it probably wouldn't have been a very good relationship in the long run.

Of the few relationships that I've had, the good one(s) started with a conversation that just exploded from there. The next thing you know everyone else has gone to bed, the sun is up and you're still talking to each other.

[steelemagnolia6]

I said it before in this thread and I'll say it again ...

Communication and Respect.......If we'd treat each other with repsect, the same respect that we want for ourselves. We, both sexes, might be able to end a relationship in such a way that this no longer happens.

[dustbowl diver]

A very wise friend of mine recently reported to me that the best way to end a relationship:

Pay the bill and leave!!

DBD

[Marion1336]

Well, according to the woman author, a possible reason for not cutting one's losses and moving on right away is:

"We go out with someone, we get excited about them, and then they do something that mildly disappoints us. Then they keep doing a lot more things that disappoint us. Then we go into hyper-excuse mode for weeks or possibly months, because the last thing we want to think is that this great man that we are so excited abaout is in the process of turning into a creep. We try to come up with some explanation for why they're behaving that way, any explanation, no matter how ridiculous, than the one explanation that's the truth: He's just not that into me."

I agree to some extent. I don't mind being told by a guy that he's no longer interested; it's a bitter pill of course, but much more respectful than being ignored or emailed only when he seems to have nothing else to do. When there's no closure, THAT's when I get annoyed. 

And also, to address the first half of the quote, I wholeheartedly believe it. Who wants to think that they've wasted time getting excited about such a dud? Nobody wants to believe that they've misjudged another so wrongly. All about the ego in some ways . . .

I am familiar with this book. I visited a friend a couple months ago and she and her husband said they saw this author/book discussed on Oprah. This was after my relationship ended but they said they couldn't help thinking about my situation! Oh, how sweet!

It was hard for me to tell at first that things were over because he wouldn't be straight with me. He kept on saying that he was extremely busy with work. I respected his busy schedule and empathized with him. I didn't want to be too demanding of his time or a "pain" so I left it to him to call me when he had the opportunity. We were living a few states away and saw each other when he was in town for business so it wasn't what hnladue eluded to, he wasn't staying in it for the sex! Over a four month period it went from daily phone/e-mail contacts to one e-mail in two weeks and "completely forgetting" Valentines Day.

I finally realized that I didn't want a relationship with someone who wasn't willing to make me a priority in their life. I had/have an extremely busy schedule too but how hard is it to find 5 minutes in a day to make a quick phone call or send an email? In the end, I wrote him a 3-page "Dear John" letter telling him what I was looking for in a relationship and explained my desires to have open, honest communication. I never got a response to the letter (and really wasn't surprised at that point). It would have been nice to have some closure. It was very shocking that he acted in such a cowardly fashion. I would have really appreciated honesty.

I think I have learned a great deal from this experience and I am actually very grateful. I am no longer sacrificing what I truly want in a relationship just to make things work and I'm sure I'll find that special person.

[Walter]

Marion,

I'm glad to hear you've taken positive steps. You certainly deserve better treatment.

[drdiver]

It was hard for me to tell at first that things were over because he wouldn't be straight with me. He kept on saying that he was extremely busy with work. I respected his busy schedule and empathized with him. I didn't want to be too demanding of his time or a "pain" so I left it to him to call me when he had the opportunity. We were living a few states away and saw each other when he was in town for business so it wasn't what hnladue eluded to, he wasn't staying in it for the sex! Over a four month period it went from daily phone/e-mail contacts to one e-mail in two weeks and "completely forgetting" Valentines Day.

I finally realized that I didn't want a relationship with someone who wasn't willing to make me a priority in their life. I had/have an extremely busy schedule too but how hard is it to find 5 minutes in a day to make a quick phone call or send an email? In the end, I wrote him a 3-page "Dear John" letter telling him what I was looking for in a relationship and explained my desires to have open, honest communication. I never got a response to the letter (and really wasn't surprised at that point). It would have been nice to have some closure. It was very shocking that he acted in such a cowardly fashion. I would have really appreciated honesty.

I'm going through the same thing right now. The lady I've been in a relationship with is in Texas, but not in the Austin area. So our opportunities to see each other are limited. Her job literally consumes her (she's a high level administrator for a large academic institution). She literally is working an 80 hour week. She really doesn't have time for a relationship. Her job clearly is her life and she admits this and says she wants to change that--but she doesn't. I'm having exactly the same experience, the daily email/call has dropped to one in two weeks. Sometimes it takes her a week to get back to me.