59 replies to this topic

[RichardB]

I have no problem with offering services such as switching out gear, or guided dives.  I do have a problem when charter boats try to force such unwanted "services" on divers.  I think if you want your hand held, go for it.  If you need your hand held, you shouldn't have a c-card.

Looks like I need to bail from the Flower Gardens trip. :anna:

DBD

You may be joking.... But really, Walter has an exceptional point. If you need your hand held you're better off back to the pool, bath tub or whever you can play without putting yourself at risk. Also, if you're not self sufficient, you're really no longer a "buddy" but more of a liability. That is, rather than being an asset should something go wrong for your dive buddy, you become a burdon that needs to be baby sat. Oh, By "you" I mean divers that need their hand held, and Walter is correct, they shouldn't have a c-card.

[dustbowl diver]

I have no problem with offering services such as switching out gear, or guided dives.  I do have a problem when charter boats try to force such unwanted "services" on divers.  I think if you want your hand held, go for it.  If you need your hand held, you shouldn't have a c-card.

Looks like I need to bail from the Flower Gardens trip. :anna:

DBD

You may be joking.... But really, Walter has an exceptional point. If you need your hand held you're better off back to the pool, bath tub or whever you can play without putting yourself at risk. Also, if you're not self sufficient, you're really no longer a "buddy" but more of a liability. That is, rather than being an asset should something go wrong for your dive buddy, you become a burdon that needs to be baby sat. Oh, By "you" I mean divers that need their hand held, and Walter is correct, they shouldn't have a c-card.

No- - I'm not joking!!

If you would kindly take two steps back and read through some of the threads where members of this board have indicated that they have less than 10 blue open water dives under their belt, I dare say that if you were to ask a number of them, they may very well indicate a little bit of nervousness and anxiety and therefore a little hand holding isn't a bad thing!

We cannot all be DM's, instructors, or other top of the tier professionals, this is afterall, a recreational sport.

This forum is open to every person who may cross the web- I find those comments completely distasteful and unbecoming of someone who is an administrator on this board regardless of the point or their opinion!!!!

[Walter]

John,

Diving is an inherently dangerous sport. If someone screws up they can end up seriously injured or even dead. Even worse, they can cause injury or death for their buddy. If one is not confident in their abilities, they need to stay in class until they are confident. Lack of confidence along with one minor thing going wrong starts the panic cycle. Panic kills more divers than anything else. If someone needs their hand held, they are one tiny problem (a kicked mask, for example) away from a potentially life threatening situation.

I'm sorry if this upsets you, but I'd rather have you angry with me than to have people hurt or killed. Divers don't have to be professionals or even very experienced to not need their hands held. An OW diver with 4 dives shouldn't need any one to hold their hand when they dive.

You find my comments completely distasteful and unbecoming. I would be remiss as a human being if I didn't bring out issues of this nature that can save lives.

[steelemagnolia6]

I didn't find Walter's comments out of line at all. More to the point that all of us know a diver with the card that is dangerous and needs to re learn some of the skills that are needed to be safe in any situation.

I took my advanced class with a young man that only had 5 dives and I'd be glad to have him on any dive that I went on. He is a very very good, safe and willing to learn diver. He has plans to move up to the instructor level and someone will be lucky to have him teach them to dive. While I know a lady that has been diving for a couple of years now and I wouldn't get in the hot tub with her as my buddy.

I myself don't have dives that number in the triple digits, but I am striving to be the best diver that I can be. That means that I am always learning and fine tuning my skills. I do realize that there are dives that I am not at this time experieinced enough to do, while there are some that I have done that seem bland to some folks and scary to the unexpereinced.

I don't think that it's the number of dives that you have but your own ability that makes you a safe diver. YOur willingness to learn, and to listen to what someone is telling you!

[RichardB]

Walter, Kay,

Thanks for the great words of wisdom and the way you expressed them. Far too many divers loose their lives each year getting into situations for which they are not ready. They put themselves and others at risk. Training and experience is never a bad thing. Many of us have heard, seen and even been involved with the unfortunate results of diver's who unknowingly place themselves in hazardous situations.

[dustbowl diver]

John,

Diving is an inherently dangerous sport. If someone screws up they can end up seriously injured or even dead. Even worse, they can cause injury or death for their buddy. If one is not confident in their abilities, they need to stay in class until they are confident. Lack of confidence along with one minor thing going wrong starts the panic cycle. Panic kills more divers than anything else. If someone needs their hand held, they are one tiny problem (a kicked mask, for example) away from a potentially life threatening situation.

I'm sorry if this upsets you, but I'd rather have you angry with me than to have people hurt or killed. Divers don't have to be professionals or even very experienced to not need their hands held. An OW diver with 4 dives shouldn't need any one to hold their hand when they dive.

You find my comments completely distasteful and unbecoming. I would be remiss as a human being if I didn't bring out issues of this nature that can save lives.

After much consternation-to reply or not to reply, for that is the real question.

Not going to disagree that diving is an inherently dangerous sport. Scuba Diving runs an article every month-"Lessons for Life" that clearly reminds us all that we can take nothing for granted.

I did my open water certification over 20 years ago and took an interest in diving again when a group of fraternity brothers and I turned the big 40 and decided to head to Mexico. I went through a pool refresher, but did I have a twinge of nervousness on my first 'real' dive, you bet your sweet bippy I did! Were there people on that dive that had no business messing around with a camera due to their experience level, damn straight! But I looked to stay close to my buddy and/or the DM because I didn't want to take anything for granted. I have maintained that same practice on the next 11 dives I have made. So, if this is 'hand holding', then I know where you stand and if I elect to go to the Flower Gardens, I'll sit in the boat with my pom-pons and wait for you to surface!

[Walter]

John,

That's common sense. You stay with your buddy, you pay attention to details and you're aware of potential dangers.

There are certified divers who literally cannot set up their own gear, freak out of their mask leaks and have to dive with a DM or instructor because they'd die if something went wrong with out someone there to immediately deal with the problem. That's someone who needs their hand held. I believe they were done a disservice when they were issued a c-card.

As for the Flower Gardens, if you (or anyone else) needs or wants pointers or suggestions to improve technique, there will be several folks on the boat qualified by training and experience who are ready and willing to assist. While diving is inherently dangerous, it's not particularly difficult. Some people make it look easy because they've learned the tricks that make it easy. Anyone can learn these same tricks. Patience and a willingness to learn are all that is required.

[chinacat46]

I myself don't have dives that number in the triple digits, but I am striving to be the best diver that I can be. That means that I am always learning and fine tuning my skills. I do realize that there are dives that I am not at this time experieinced enough to do, while there are some that I have done that seem bland to some folks and scary to the unexpereinced.

I don't think that it's the number of dives that you have but your own ability that makes you a safe diver. YOur willingness to learn, and to listen to what someone is telling you!

This really hits it on the head for me. I have nearly 400 dives but I continue to learn new things. In fact I'd be scared if I thought I knew it all. The more you dive the more you learn. You never stop learning.

[drdiver]

amen to that. It's an activity where you can never know it all.

[RichardB]

I'll sit in the boat with my pom-pons and wait for you to surface!

LOLOL! Good one!
That's what dive boats need! More Pom Pom storage!

[steelemagnolia6]

and dancing pink elephants too.....

[WreckWench]

I'd like to add a few comments to this discussion...

1. SingleDivers.com accommodates all skill levels from pre-certified divers to newly certified divers to rusty divers, advanced divers and all the way up to crusty divers!

2. Most trips are set up so that we can have ALL types of divers on them...Bonaire is a great example. With the exception of a few shore entries not suitable for new divers...EVERY diver in the world can enjoy almost every dive that Bonaire has to offer from the same boat and from the same shore entry. No diver is holding up any other diver and we all dive to our skill levels...usually measured by depth and air consumption and dive time.

3. Some trips offer advanced divers special destinations since in a group of 20-30 people we average about half our divers being novice and half very experineced. We can allow our divers to take a separate boat to more advanced destinations in say Cozumel while the rest enjoy of them enjoy beautiful diving in shallow waters. And then we can do several days with everyone together as a big group.

4. Some trips however are not for beginner divers or very novice divers and they are noted accordingly. A good example of this is NC wreckdiving. The depths are 80-120 ft...most divers use nitrox to max bottom time...we can have current or seas...all of which make it a venue for more intermediate and advanced divers. In fact we request all divers interested in NC have at least their AOL or equivelent and 40 dives under their belt so that they are familiar with their gear and its use. (As an aside...most operators do limit bottom time and surface interval...our dive operator does not which is one of many reasons we use him.)

The Flower Gardens is another one of those trips where you should not be a brand new diver unless you were VERY comfortable in the water and diving is second nature to you. Why? Well the depths are 80-120ft...you will need to be aware and able to do your own navigation...the DM's do not lead guided tours around the sites...and pretty soon one coral head starts to look like another and you can easily get disoriented. Also we are on a liveaboard...so if you are susceptible to sea sickness you'll feel poorly which can add to your stress and anxiety about the dives. So should you dive FG with only a couple of dives under your belt? I wouldn't...but then many do it here in Texas cuz they live so close.

If anyone on the FG trip needs to stick close to a DM or a very cautious and careful and experienced diver that is fine. And if you want to hold my hand...I can arrange that too! :anna:

If however you feel that diving on air to these depths is not what you thought it would be...or you are not trained in navigation skills...or you aren't certain if you'll suffer from seasickness or not...then by all means work with me to plan a different trip that may be more in line with your skills and experience.

However I hope that none of our members or guests feel or get the impression that we only cater to more advanced divers...and that very new or very inexperienced divers are not welcome here...because that is absolutely not correct. We work REALLY hard to have an instructor on EVERY trip to not only offer specialty certifications but to also be available for newer divers. (Just ask Mandi on the Saba trip.) We also have many very experienced divers as well as myself who will dive with newer divers...just ask Brant or Scott on the Saba trip.

So unless you are attempting a trip that is clearly beyond your training or skills...every diver is welcome on every trip and we've yet to have a problem!

If you aren't certain...just contact me and I'll help you match your skill level to the trip you are intereseted in going on!

[dustbowl diver]

I'd like to add a few comments to this discussion...

1. SingleDivers.com accommodates all skill levels from pre-certified divers to newly certified divers to rusty divers, advanced divers and all the way up to crusty divers!

2. Most trips are set up so that we can have ALL types of divers on them...Bonaire is a great example. With the exception of a few shore entries not suitable for new divers...EVERY diver in the world can enjoy almost every dive that Bonaire has to offer from the same boat and from the same shore entry. No diver is holding up any other diver and we all dive to our skill levels...usually measured by depth and air consumption and dive time.

3. Some trips offer advanced divers special destinations since in a group of 20-30 people we average about half our divers being novice and half very experineced. We can allow our divers to take a separate boat to more advanced destinations in say Cozumel while the rest enjoy of them enjoy beautiful diving in shallow waters. And then we can do several days with everyone together as a big group.

4. Some trips however are not for beginner divers or very novice divers and they are noted accordingly. A good example of this is NC wreckdiving. The depths are 80-120 ft...most divers use nitrox to max bottom time...we can have current or seas...all of which make it a venue for more intermediate and advanced divers. In fact we request all divers interested in NC have at least their AOL or equivelent and 40 dives under their belt so that they are familiar with their gear and its use. (As an aside...most operators do limit bottom time and surface interval...our dive operator does not which is one of many reasons we use him.)

The Flower Gardens is another one of those trips where you should not be a brand new diver unless you were VERY comfortable in the water and diving is second nature to you. Why? Well the depths are 80-120ft...you will need to be aware and able to do your own navigation...the DM's do not lead guided tours around the sites...and pretty soon one coral head starts to look like another and you can easily get disoriented. Also we are on a liveaboard...so if you are susceptible to sea sickness you'll feel poorly which can add to your stress and anxiety about the dives. So should you dive FG with only a couple of dives under your belt? I wouldn't...but then many do it here in Texas cuz they live so close.

If anyone on the FG trip needs to stick close to a DM or a very cautious and careful and experienced diver that is fine. And if you want to hold my hand...I can arrange that too! :anna:

If however you feel that diving on air to these depths is not what you thought it would be...or you are not trained in navigation skills...or you aren't certain if you'll suffer from seasickness or not...then by all means work with me to plan a different trip that may be more in line with your skills and experience.

However I hope that none of our members or guests feel or get the impression that we only cater to more advanced divers...and that very new or very inexperienced divers are not welcome here...because that is absolutely not correct. We work REALLY hard to have an instructor on EVERY trip to not only offer specialty certifications but to also be available for newer divers. (Just ask Mandi on the Saba trip.) We also have many very experienced divers as well as myself who will dive with newer divers...just ask Brant or Scott on the Saba trip.

So unless you are attempting a trip that is clearly beyond your training or skills...every diver is welcome on every trip and we've yet to have a problem!

If you aren't certain...just contact me and I'll help you match your skill level to the trip you are intereseted in going on!

Well said and thanks for the point of clarification!!

DBD

[nextariel]

Ok, now back to our regularly scheduled thread... No one has mentioned getting back on the boat. Personally I prefer a ladder, however others prefer the Shamu platform. So why not have both like Dixie Diver. And when getting up the ladder the boat needs to have a sturdy place to grab to help get up that last step. For some reason over the years the tank on my back seems to have gotten heavier.

[steelemagnolia6]

I'm all for the Shamu platform myself.... I can still haul my lard butt out of the water with my tanks up a ladder but As I am getting a few days of expereince on me it does get tougher......