112 replies to this topic

[capt_cu2]

Well I find this thread very curious, especially in light of recent events. As a newbie to this site, I think I might share a common question with other newbies, WTF???? I approached this site as I would any other online bulletin board, looking for information. This one had a particular focus on diving. I never expected to meet my dive diva soulmate here for the small price of $25 USD!! Didn't necessarily expect to go on a SD dive trip. But as a bulletin board, I enjoy the generous nature of people who share a common interest, and their willingness to share information about their trips and offer advice. That alone is worth the price of admission.

Since then I've seen one member chastised and temporarily baned for his criticism of a moderator. Most members took a positive stance on the issue rather than attack the individual, yet some did. Others attempted to de-fuse the thread with humor. I'm glad to see that thread is now locked. Now we newbies are hearing about a lot of problems associated with the recent FL trip. Suddenly a few of the same members who are on the unofficial welcoming committee for all us newbies have now taken a negative tone. Yet we newbies are still wondering WTF??

What happened??? Did someone die or nearly die? Seriously I dont understand the secrecy here. If you are unhappy with the travel arrangements, say so. Why all the mystery?? Speak up. Oh and why the theatrics about leaving this site. Leave or stay! Or come back whenever. But come on. You are not playing Romeo and Juliet in your high school play.

BTW Happy birthday Kamala, belated. But tell us what happened.

Oh and I will risk my big investment of $25 USD and go out on a thin branch here. But Mr. Genesis? You seem to have posted a very thorough criticism of SD. You made 3 memorable points in my opinion. 1. Hmmm yet after 1100+ post you could not cough up the $25???? 2. You were not on the FL trip. 3. And despite your criticism, you managed to exalt your own business prowess.

Congratulations, but I think you are behaving like a JERK. Sorry I dont know how to highlight that.

Too everyone else, best wishes and happy diving.

Greg

[David Evans]

Kudos to Capt_cu2!!! I concur completely!

Rule #1 in my dive classes is as follows: If you're not having fun, then we're doing something wrong.

If you're here, and you're not having fun, then consider that to be an instructive life experience. What you do with the wisdom gleaned from that experience is up to you, but I hope you'll consider it carefully.

Whatever the lesson, know that there are some of us who are here to just have fun, and if you're in to melodrama, you're pissing in my cheerios.

So in light of the purpose of this thread, here's my brilliant and constructive idea:

Let's talk about diving. Pretty please???

-david

Edited by David Evans, 06 June 2005 - 01:48 AM.

[ShamuLovesMe]

You are not playing Romeo and Juliet in your high school play.

Thanks, this little nugget in an otherwise very serious thread made me laugh my ass off.

I don't, however, agree with your opinion of Genesis, who offered some hard but fair and constructive criticism, which is the point of this thread. I hope people will stick to offering constructive criticism of this site/business and not offer criticisms of other criticisms.

[RICHinNC]

I thought about this for some time before making this post. However, I can NEVER condon name calling on this board....or any other board as far as that goes.

Genesis was stating his opinion and last time I checked we were all allowed to do that....to a point. He didnt exceed any "point" from what I know about the rules. However, calling Genesis a name did exceed the rules and should never have been done in the first place rules or no rules. And should never be agreed with by any other member.

You dont have to agree with what someone says, but you do have to voice your opinion in a non aggressive, mature manner or this board may not be for you.

If it is deemed allowable to call member names, we have bigger problems than just trip planning and execution, and I think we will see more members leave this board than ever expected.

[steelemagnolia6]

Look Kiddies some of you have no clue what is going on here and why that this format has been chosen to address the issues. If you don't know what is going you need to sit down and be quiet until you have more facts.

FYI to the clueless and uniformed.... The Florida trip by the way was on the Calender as an offical SD event long before the trip to Saba ever left the dock. So the people with issues on that trip have a very valid compliant. Once again if you don't know the facts.....

The exodus seems to be getting to be massive here judging from posts, pm's emails, and phone calls going on behind the scenes with the members who have been working their butts off to keep the holes in the dike plugged over the past several weeks...and frankly some of us are getting very tired of it.....

With most of us who are considering leaving, backing way off or have already left we aren't concerned about 25 bucks. That is immaterial.

Childish name calling and such things is not what this thead was started for. No one that has entered this fracas has done so lightly. We are desperately trying to effect some changes so that we can do what we love dive and talk about diving. Hang out with our buds and have a good time when we have to be above the water.

Edited by steelemagnolia6, 06 June 2005 - 05:51 AM.

[TheSassyRabbit]

And now a friendly interruption from a fellow board member.....

Let me first say that I am not a member of management, am not a moderator or administrator. Having said that:

This thread started as a call to provide some constructive feedback to improve the site, or give WW some specific ideas about things she might consider that would be helpful to the members of the board.

In no way do I support limiting free speech, but I wonder if it would be possible to return the conversation to constructive feedback. Just in case anyone wonders what that really means, constructive feedback might look something like this:

*I recommend xyz (ex. I recommend posting checks within a reasonable amount of time - one week, 5 business days, whatever)
*I would consider abc (ex. I would consider posting the cancellation policy on each trip thread; I would consider allowing pick up trips, or whatever)

They don't have to have specific examples (they could be PM'd to WW though or likely she will ask for examples if it's not clear), but they are most constructive when they are specific and actionable steps. They are generally most well received when the word "not" does NOT appear in them unless contrasting a point (oh yeah, did I mention that I taught communications at a University for 8 years even if 1/2 of my posts don't reflect it- verifiable! LOL)

Constructive feedback does NOT look like this:
* I think you should not..... (this sometimes negates the constructive part)
* I think you were wrong (this derails the purpose of this thread, IMHO)
* I think that what happened on the Memorial Day trip was terrible (there are other posts for this )
* Grow up; you suck; you're not welcome; etc.
* I'm going to leave this board (there is however, another thread for those thoughts)
* If xyz doesn't happen then I'm leaving (again, there is another thread for this).

And, in the end, most (I hesitate to write NO ONE) wants to see see anyone leave this board. More imporantly, most do not want this board to fail - after all we all joined for at least one reason - we are buddyless and like to dive!

Thanks... now back to the regularly scheduled program.

Edited by TheSassyRabbit, 06 June 2005 - 06:40 AM.

[Marvel]

Most excellent suggestion, Sassy. Folks, tempers are flaring & opinions are varied. I've edited some of the comments & would appreciate it greatly if we could all limit our remarks to constructive suggestions & omit anything that even remotely smacks of personal attack.

I can assure you, as part of the staff, that your suggestions & comments are being taken very seriously. Kamala will undoubtedly respond shortly. Please be patient & continue offering any feedback & suggestions that you may have.

[Walter]

Since then I've seen one member chastised and temporarily baned for his criticism of a moderator.

You've seen something I haven't seen and I'm the one who usually flips the switch on suspensions and bannings. One person was suspended recently for repeatedly making personal attacks against another member (who is not a moderator nor an administrator). After receive the suspension, he created sockpuppets to continue attacks during the time he was suspended. He was banned for that violation.

[WreckWench]

Hey everyone...I've just gotten back from SeaSpace which was a wonderful show...we had lots of volunteers in the booth...we had lots of people sign up as new members and interested members and we even managed to celebrate my birthday in several unusual ways including several 'live' interviews on ScubaRadio!

And now for playing catchup...I'm just reading this thread and I want to thank all of you for taking time to provide me with concrete ideas and suggestions for improving the site as well as contructive feedback (great definition guidelines Katie) for how to make SD better!

I will summarize the main points in the thread and then address them individually with possible resolutions or plans for resolution by close of business tomorrow.

Thank you again for providing good feedback on how to make SD better! We are as many have suggested experiencing some growing pains...and work has been going on behind the scenes for the past couple of months to resolve these and other 'growing pains' we've been facing. However new issues have been raised and they will be addressed as well.

I will state for the record that SD was borne of a labor of love...and continues to be a labor of love. Love of diving...love of fellow divers...and love of that which we all think makes life worth living! We've worked hard to find our own niche in a challenged industry as well as to create a unique community that allows a previously uncatered too and often ignored group of single and married but buddyless divers to go on great dive trips of all makes and models as well as styles and duration not once or twice a year...but once or twice a month WITHOUT fear of that trip being cancelled regardless of the number of divers on it! (And yes many of you know that last year many spots went unfilled on trips and I personally ate the losses on them. This year most trips have filled to the minimum numbers needed but not to the numbers I committed too and therefore a few spots have been eaten this year as well. )

But one of our greatest labors of love is that we have actively worked to recruit new members via local happy hours (thanks to the tireless efforts of many of our great members who have put these together with their own time and expense); tireless recruiting efforts of many of our members via their participation on other diving boards and communities or by opening their homes to members to come and go diving with them; viligent efforts by marketing members that seek out ways for us to get our 'name and message' out there and tradeshows which cost upwards of a $1000 a booth if we do not qualify for a 'diveclub' rate not including hotel, meals, transportation to the event or the cost of booth materials such as banners, flyers, give aways etc. not to mention the cost of transportation and lodging and meals for all the extremely generous members who have volunteered to work at these shows some even flying in to help other parts of the country so that we can GROW SD.

We are 15 months old and can boast 10 or 11 trips in our first year averaging 15-25 people on them; over 1500 members; a mailing list of over 2000 and our greatest claim to fame...being thought of as one of the nicest, most fun diving internet groups on the web.

As we transition through our wonderful growth pains into a better organization...SD will be even stronger...more fun and an even more recognized emerging entity in the diving community! And yes I said 'wonderful growth pains'...no gain is ever accomplished without some pain and investment...nothing worthwhile is easy...and nothing is ever handed to you on a silver platter...it has to be worked for.

Thank you all for the chance to make SD even better! Kamala

[Trimix2dive]

I second the nomination. After give and take in a small number of point counterpoint debates, I found out at the end of each debate - (beaten and demoralized) exactly how wrong my position and way of thinking actually is. (just kidding katie)

why don't we put a board up like "destructive criticism", "contructive criticism" and another called "positive feedback". If I need to give you a defination of each, you don't need to go into any of them. Just sit and look out the window at the pretty birds in the trees.

People we have to take personal attacks with a grain of salt. We are on a loosely affilliated forum with a wide range of personalities, not everyone is going to be happy happy joy joy buddies with everyone everywhere all the time.

If I make someone mad for any reason, let me know about it. If it is valid and you provide me with suggestive ways of correction, I will take the contructive criticism and make alterations to be a better person or business. If is not valid and "destructive criticism", I will blow your position off without thought, with out comment, and without giving you the pleasure of going to hell. If you provide me with "positive feedback", you will have my thanks, but with that I will ask you WHY did that WORK, WHY did you RESPOND, and HOW can this experience be made to be BETTER for me or my organization.

I have been on serveral outings of this organization (no travel trips), all have been enjoyable. One was not in one aspect because it rained on us all weekend, whose fault is that - no-ones but mother natures - everybody made the best of it (rolled with the flow). We huddled under a tarp and got several conversations going to pass the time. Any situation is what you make of it.

For those involved, you may wish to consider a set of standard operating proceedures and guideline to better organization. This will standardize an operating business and accounting proceedures so thing can be processed in a timely and error free process. And with any and all criticism don't loose focus on the original idea for starting this organization. Take whats given you and make the organization better.

my 2psi worth. take it or leave it. for better for worse.

[hnladue]

Ya know.... I have no clue why everyone is so up in arms about whatever happened. From what I've read, it wasn't all that much. Please lets all be the adults we are and think a little about things. Put yourself in the other persons shoes and think. Worse things have and will happen. We deal with it and go on. Learning all the way. We SHARE our expierences so that others won't learn the hard way like we have. Lighten up a little kay??? Feel the love!!!

IMO, worse things happened in the brockville trip, but you don't see us draggin' it thru the mud, hanging it out to dry, then putting it up on a billboard for all to see.

Let's go diving!! Naked! hehehehe!! *warning: I bite!*

Heather.

[nextariel]

FYI - All SD'ers participating in the Florida Dive were given surveys to fill out and return to Marvel, who will then forward to Kamala. We will be asking an Angel on all future trips to collect a survey and forward to Walter or Marvel, who will then forward to Kamala.

So the reason you may not see people post who were on the FLorida trip, is they were given the opportunity to get their feedback to those who can make changes and not to everyone on the board - just my 2 psi.