Kids in Bars... Yes, No, Maybe
#1
Posted 27 February 2006 - 09:02 PM
Why is a kid in a bar in the first place? I understand that single parents have a harder time getting out and doing the social thing. I understand that visitation is limited and all that time is very important. But where is the line drawn? When does time with the child over ride the good sense not to bring a child in a bar?
A bar is a place for adults to cut loose and shake off the stress and so on. Things that happen in bars typically are not appropiate for children to see, hence the age limit on getting in most of them.
#2
Posted 27 February 2006 - 09:29 PM
First of all, the bar is not open to the general public, it is for rodeo committee members and their guests. Those guests can and do include children.
We do allow children into our club as long as they are with adult supervision. However, come 8:00 pm, everyone under 21 has to leave. No exceptions. This is not a rule of the HLSR, it is a rule of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.
Here in the state of Texas, there are dance halls in many small towns that do allow minors in. However, they do not sell alchohol outside of beer and wine. Patrons who want to drink hard liquor have to bring their own.
#3
Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:06 PM
I also think people in America are too Puratin in alcohol and sex. In Sweden, you can buy Klass I beer (non-alcoholic to miniscule alcohol) at any age. Klass II at age 15 which is upto 3.2% and Klass III at age 18, which would be considered normal beer (Bud, Guiness, Heineken, etc.), Wine and Hard Liquor at age 20 (or age 18 at a club b/c supposedly bar tenders can cut you off if you drink too much). In Germany, beer can be purchased at any age and in France, it is common place for kids to have small amounts of wine and it is okay to serve your kid while in public.
So, what's wrong with a kid being in a bar, seeing people drink? Would I want to see a kid in the typical biker bar portrayed on TV? No..of course not..because Steven Segal will appear and whoop the butt of 10 people...but if it's the average bar where people are getting together, having drinks, watching sports, shooting darts and pool...I have no problem with that. The only problem I do have is when kids are sitting AT the bar, eating up real estate for drinking and paying customers. It's tough enough ordering a drink with paying customers, I don't think the prime real estate should be eaten u[ by non-paying customers...and I feel the say way about adults to camp out at the bar and don't buy a drink too.
That's my short opinion is that it's okay for kids to be at a bar, as long as it isn't a rowdy place that would put one's child in harm's way.
-Mike- a.k.a WDFB
#4
Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:19 PM
I don't have any kids, so my opinion might not matter...but I think it depends on the kind of bar. Is it a bar at Hooters or Ruby Tuesdays, or a bar where people just go and get drunk or is it a bar where respectable adults go? Growing up, I used to go to a private bar in CT with my best friend and his father figure Roger. Roger was a certified billards instructor and he would teach us how to play pool in an environment where it wasn't rowdy, even though people were drinking. Could something have happend? Sure, but no more than two drunk people getting in a spat at TGI Fridays.
I also think people in America are too Puratin in alcohol and sex. In Sweden, you can buy Klass I beer (non-alcoholic to miniscule alcohol) at any age. Klass II at age 15 which is upto 3.2% and Klass III at age 18, which would be considered normal beer (Bud, Guiness, Heineken, etc.), Wine and Hard Liquor at age 20 (or age 18 at a club b/c supposedly bar tenders can cut you off if you drink too much). In Germany, beer can be purchased at any age and in France, it is common place for kids to have small amounts of wine and it is okay to serve your kid while in public.
So, what's wrong with a kid being in a bar, seeing people drink? Would I want to see a kid in the typical biker bar portrayed on TV? No..of course not..because Steven Segal will appear and whoop the butt of 10 people...but if it's the average bar where people are getting together, having drinks, watching sports, shooting darts and pool...I have no problem with that. The only problem I do have is when kids are sitting AT the bar, eating up real estate for drinking and paying customers. It's tough enough ordering a drink with paying customers, I don't think the prime real estate should be eaten u[ by non-paying customers...and I feel the say way about adults to camp out at the bar and don't buy a drink too.
That's my short opinion is that it's okay for kids to be at a bar, as long as it isn't a rowdy place that would put one's child in harm's way.
-Mike- a.k.a WDFB
I agree 100%! I also don't have kids but I did on occasion as a kid go into a bar with adults. Absolutely nothing bad came of it and, since I was so clearly under age, not exactly any risk of me being served. I am also of the belief that keeping the drinking age falsely high at 21 only encourages younger people to binge drink when they are younger as, given that they have to obtain the alochol illegally anyway, they drink to get drunk when they drink underage. I grew up in Canada where the drinking age is 18 or 19 depending on the province and, I must admit, that I had never seen young people abuse alcohol here like I did when I moved to California when I was 18. It was normal for my friends and I to have a beer or two at home but when I hung out with the same age group in CA people were drinking to get drunk - pure and simple.
#5
Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:23 PM
When America was young, and was more Puritan than we can comprehend today, there were “Taverns”. The local tavern was the gathering place for the townsfolk. You could get your fill of ale and such at the Tavern. But you also could get a meal, you could get a place to sleep if you were passing though. Most children in these Taverns, were there with their parents. And as such, were watched over and kept well behaved. And even though some Taverns allowed you to get some “company” should you get a room, this was kept separate from the families that were in the Tavern.
Well the modern bar has replaced the local Tavern. Most modern bars are geared toward letting you spend your money to get falling down drunk. Not a place that I would want my kids in. The little town I live in has a “Tavern”. Plenty of hard drinks to go around. But there is good food, and even a couple of games the children can play (that don't cost money). There is a checker board and some cards behind the bar if anyone is inclined.
So kids in a bar, I'd so no. Kids in a Tavern, yes if the parents are watching over them.
My 2˘
#6
Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:32 PM
As far as a "real bar", it depends on the type of bars. Some yes, some no, and all depending on the types of activities that are typical for the bar. And like Mitch, I think it is probably best the kids leave by 8 or 9 pm.
This past weekend at Mardi Gras, very late in the evening, there were little kids all around, with all the boob and male organ flashing, women walking around with painted breasts and letting them be fondled while pictures were taken, etc. that one typically see. My feeling about that was fine, bring the kids to Mardi Gras until dark, but at dark, they really need to be elsewhere, as it can get pretty raunchy. It was tamer this year than I've seen it in the past, but still no place for little kids after dark.
#7
Posted 27 February 2006 - 11:17 PM
And what is wrong with a kid seeing the painted breast of a woman during Mardi Gras? Take a trip to Brasil for Carnaval, which makes the New Orleans Mardi Gras look like a birthday party. Naked women beautiful dressed in paint...which the whole country on average spends 25% of income to party for that week. Families with their kids, singles and couples partying in the streets, kissing strangers with youngins looking on...with LOTS of alcohol being consumed by all. A couple weeks ago I figured out I've been to 14 countries and there is only 1 country I've been to which is so restrictive on alcohol and sex...The United States, The Land of the Free. Among the developed nations, we have a high rate of underage drinking, binge drinking, and teenage pregnancy. Why...because heaven forbid an 8 year old sees someone drinking a beer or a womans breast. Sex is bad, sex is evil, yet USA is Porn Central. No one in Spain worries if their kid sees a topless woman or has a beer, why should we? (BTW, the last report I read about a year ago, Spain had one of the highest life expectancy in the world where I think the woman's life expectancy was the highest...or at least highest in Europe, hence why I chose Spain). Maybe that's why they live longer, they don't fret the small stuff.When I was in grad school, it was common for parents to bring their kids to the little sub shop or pizza place where we would gather to drink beer - usually just people sitting at picnic tables outside on the deck, telling jokes or discussing some grand ecological theory. My daughter has very fine memories of going there today. I think this type of setting is more along the line of the "tavern" setting discussed above, as the kids were very closely supervised by their collective of parents.
As far as a "real bar", it depends on the type of bars. Some yes, some no, and all depending on the types of activities that are typical for the bar. And like Mitch, I think it is probably best the kids leave by 8 or 9 pm.
This past weekend at Mardi Gras, very late in the evening, there were little kids all around, with all the boob and male organ flashing, women walking around with painted breasts and letting them be fondled while pictures were taken, etc. that one typically see. My feeling about that was fine, bring the kids to Mardi Gras until dark, but at dark, they really need to be elsewhere, as it can get pretty raunchy. It was tamer this year than I've seen it in the past, but still no place for little kids after dark.
-Mike- a.k.a WDFB
#8
Posted 27 February 2006 - 11:48 PM
#9
Posted 28 February 2006 - 12:06 AM
Not the nudity so much (although I must admit I am put off by guys flashing their primary sex organs), as the behaviour that I don't think kids need to be around.
I agree. Children should be sheltered, but not from drinking, nudity, etc....as long as the parent is able to teach them what is proper and acceptable. However, the behavior that goes on in some places (bars, the streets of NO, Mardi Gras anywhere) is too much IMHO. There is a loss of innocence that as a society we should not purposely subject our children to. The thought of my 10 yr old neice witnessing what goes on during Mardi Gras scares me. I've been there, I had a great time but some of that she does not need to see. She would be scarred for life!
As far as the original topic, if a parent is able to properly educate their child about what is okay and not okay it is their decision whether or not to take them to a bar/pub/tavern, whatever. BUT bars are geared towards grown ups (for obvious reasons) and grown up things happen in bars. Personally if I had kids I would not want to explain to them why Billy Bob had his hand up Peggy Sue's shirt and his tongue down her throat or any of the other things we have all witnessed in a bar.
Just my 2 PSI but like I said I don't have kids, so what do I know.......don't listen to me!
beachbunny@singledivers.com
"Be the change you wish to see in the world"
Ghandi
#10
Posted 28 February 2006 - 12:22 AM
#11
Posted 28 February 2006 - 05:29 AM
In Germany, beer can be purchased at any age and in France, it is common place for kids to have small amounts of wine and it is okay to serve your kid while in public.
I wonder if the fact that if you get stopped for drinking and driving that your license is automatically suspended in most European countries has as much or more to do with the saner approach towards alcohal you are referring too?
#12
Posted 28 February 2006 - 07:22 AM
By the time their mid teens, maybe the european thing is OK. My personal jury is still out on this one. But Children, No.
Edited by Trimix2dive, 28 February 2006 - 07:22 AM.
#13
Posted 28 February 2006 - 10:26 AM
Bar - Place that serves alcoholic drinks. Used on it's own - a business who's source of revenue (90 - 99%) is serving liquor. There is a TV and may be a pool table or dart board - but people come to drink.
Night club - Music, drinking and dancing - a meet market
Sports bar - Lots of TVs and a menu - the waitress usually have referee shirts on and there are video games and other distractions.
Theme restaurant - takes stuff out of the attic and hangs it on the walls, serves blended drinks.
There is a big difference between a 10 year old playing is a sports bar and a baby in a stroller sitting beside dad in a bar. (just for the record I was a regular, it was twins in a stroller, the middle of the afternoon and I was meeting friends there before we took the kids shopping.)
Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance. - Jean-Paul Sartre
I feel the urge, the urge to submerge! -ScubaHawk - Raptor of the Deep !
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