16 replies to this topic

[finGrabber]

I'm interested in more difficult diving as in overhead environments, deep diving, wreck penetration, caves and caverns

what I want to know is how others progressed into these environments and why?

[Diverbrian]

It's actually pretty easy. Most of the wrecks in the Great Lakes look pretty much the same above sixty ft. due to zebra mussels and the weather beating up on them. As a result, I wanted to learn to dive deeper. If you watch the Deep Sea Detectives episode on the Cornelia B. Windiate, you understand why I enjoy deep diving in cold water . These wrecks are very pristine at those depths.

Also, wreck divers are like cats. I have never met a wreck diver with much experience who didn't want to poke his nose inside of a portion of a wreck out of curiosity. Hence, nearly every dive that I have done for my normoxic tri-mix course involved me and my instructor swimming through an beautiful wreck at 150 ft. or deeper . I carry that tradition on without my instructor.


My buddies got me started with an Advanced Nitrox course that they asked me to take with them a few years back. I was planning on diving some wrecks at 100-120 ft. and figured that it would be nice to learn how to handle deco if Murphy hit. Surprise! The course involved something called planning deco and managing gas for deco. That was cool once I learned it!

Later on, I wanted to learn to dive deeper but knew that I didn't like being narced. So, I took Normoxic trimix. WAY COOL! Now I could dive as much deco as I could take bottles down for to do safely and use most any mix that I wanted. Oh yeah, I didn't have to worry about that nasty narcosis. Now, nearly every dive that I do in the Great Lakes involves planned, staged decompression and I am still going from there.

[6Gill]

There are certin things common to most of the different types of 'technical' diving so I would start with that.
Nitrox would be one along with decompression,trimix would fit that bill.A good comfort level in the water were you've got your trim and bouancy sorted out will make life easier in that you can focus on the course and not be also dealing with added distractions.Ask around to see who is doing the type of diving you'd like to get into,you can do them all but you should start with one.If your lucky you'll find people that have different opinions on doing the same thing and can articulate their position.What you want to know is why something is good not why the other way is bad.You now have to decide as a diver what makes the most sense for you,the type of diving you'll do and where you want to go with your diving.
Dive lots,read lots,ask questions

[seafox]

Hi finGraber,
Both Divebrian and 6Gill, have nicely summed it up.
As was said earlier, most people interested in pursuing this kind of diving do so to improve their skills,
become self-sufficent, feed their curiosity and fascination of deeper wrecks which are usually prestine and lack a multitude of divers,
the drive for discovery, history, passion for the oceans and so on.
There are as many reasons as there are divers.
You have a couple of options to lead you there. Here is a very brief look at the 20,000' level!
In both cases you need Nitrox training, if you don't already have it.
Advanced Nitrox would be the next step and would give you the skills to
descend to 140 fsw' and use EAN50 for up to up to 15 minutes of decompression.
One agency, IANTD, gives you the option with their "Tek Lite" offering, to use trimix at the next level with the
Recrecreational Trimix Diver course, and that allows you to 150 fsw, and EAN50 for 15 minutes of deco.
Trimix (which contains Helium)replaces Nitrogen in the breathing gas to minimize narcosis, which can hit you hard at that depth.
At those depths air is not your friend!
Another agency, TDI, following Adv Nitrox, offers a full Decompression Procedures course, followed by a trimix path.
For more in depth information on these programs and agencies, you can check both web sites.
These courses prepare you for futher courses, in wreck penetration, deep dives and cave diving.
I would recommend that you meet with and discuss your goals with local instructors from both agencies.
All of these require a considerable commitment in time, dedication and money, but the rewards are spectacular.
PS there are other agencies, but I am less familiar with their programs.

Would you share with us your motivation to pursue that path?

[finGrabber]

Hi finGraber,
Both Divebrian and 6Gill, have nicely summed it up.
As was said earlier, most people interested in pursuing this kind of diving do so to improve their skills,
become self-sufficent, feed their curiosity and fascination of deeper wrecks which are usually prestine and lack a multitude of divers,
the drive for discovery, history, passion for the oceans and so on.
There are as many reasons as there are divers.
You have a couple of options to lead you there. Here is a very brief look at the 20,000' level!
In both cases you need Nitrox training, if you don't already have it.
Advanced Nitrox would be the next step and would give you the skills to
descend to 140 fsw' and use EAN50 for up to up to 15 minutes of decompression.
One agency, IANTD, gives you the option with their "Tek Lite" offering, to use trimix at the next level with the
Recrecreational Trimix Diver course, and that allows you to 150 fsw, and EAN50 for 15 minutes of deco.
Trimix (which contains Helium)replaces Nitrogen in the breathing gas to minimize narcosis, which can hit you hard at that depth.
At those depths air is not your friend!
Another agency, TDI, following Adv Nitrox, offers a full Decompression Procedures course, followed by a trimix path.
For more in depth information on these programs and agencies, you can check both web sites.
These courses prepare you for futher courses, in wreck penetration, deep dives and cave diving.
I would recommend that you meet with and discuss your goals with local instructors from both agencies.
All of these require a considerable commitment in time, dedication and money, but the rewards are spectacular.
PS there are other agencies, but I am less familiar with their programs.

Would you share with us your motivation to pursue that path?

I want to do deeper dives and on a rebreather because I'm an animal lover! I want to be one with the environment, I want the animals to think I'm supposed to be there instead of an intruder...I personally hate zoo's because the animals are captive...I want to see them as they live and most are below 130' and are scared by our out-breathing

not to mention that I have an interest in underwater video and photography

it's easier if you're not on OC

[ScubaDadMiami]

Hi finGraber,
Both Divebrian and 6Gill, have nicely summed it up.
As was said earlier, most people interested in pursuing this kind of diving do so to improve their skills,
become self-sufficent, feed their curiosity and fascination of deeper wrecks which are usually prestine and lack a multitude of divers,
the drive for discovery, history, passion for the oceans and so on.
There are as many reasons as there are divers.
You have a couple of options to lead you there. Here is a very brief look at the 20,000' level!
In both cases you need Nitrox training, if you don't already have it.
Advanced Nitrox would be the next step and would give you the skills to
descend to 140 fsw' and use EAN50 for up to up to 15 minutes of decompression.
One agency, IANTD, gives you the option with their "Tek Lite" offering, to use trimix at the next level with the
Recrecreational Trimix Diver course, and that allows you to 150 fsw, and EAN50 for 15 minutes of deco.
Trimix (which contains Helium)replaces Nitrogen in the breathing gas to minimize narcosis, which can hit you hard at that depth.
At those depths air is not your friend!
Another agency, TDI, following Adv Nitrox, offers a full Decompression Procedures course, followed by a trimix path.
For more in depth information on these programs and agencies, you can check both web sites.
These courses prepare you for futher courses, in wreck penetration, deep dives and cave diving.
I would recommend that you meet with and discuss your goals with local instructors from both agencies.
All of these require a considerable commitment in time, dedication and money, but the rewards are spectacular.
PS there are other agencies, but I am less familiar with their programs.

Would you share with us your motivation to pursue that path?

I want to do deeper dives and on a rebreather because I'm an animal lover! I want to be one with the environment, I want the animals to think I'm supposed to be there instead of an intruder...I personally hate zoo's because the animals are captive...I want to see them as they live and most are below 130' and are scared by our out-breathing

not to mention that I have an interest in underwater video and photography

it's easier if you're not on OC

Mwahahaaa! Another one to the Dark Side. C'mon over. We'll set you up so you can see all the fish close up like family.

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[finGrabber]

Hi finGraber,
Both Divebrian and 6Gill, have nicely summed it up.
As was said earlier, most people interested in pursuing this kind of diving do so to improve their skills,
become self-sufficent, feed their curiosity and fascination of deeper wrecks which are usually prestine and lack a multitude of divers,
the drive for discovery, history, passion for the oceans and so on.
There are as many reasons as there are divers.
You have a couple of options to lead you there. Here is a very brief look at the 20,000' level!
In both cases you need Nitrox training, if you don't already have it.
Advanced Nitrox would be the next step and would give you the skills to
descend to 140 fsw' and use EAN50 for up to up to 15 minutes of decompression.
One agency, IANTD, gives you the option with their "Tek Lite" offering, to use trimix at the next level with the
Recrecreational Trimix Diver course, and that allows you to 150 fsw, and EAN50 for 15 minutes of deco.
Trimix (which contains Helium)replaces Nitrogen in the breathing gas to minimize narcosis, which can hit you hard at that depth.
At those depths air is not your friend!
Another agency, TDI, following Adv Nitrox, offers a full Decompression Procedures course, followed by a trimix path.
For more in depth information on these programs and agencies, you can check both web sites.
These courses prepare you for futher courses, in wreck penetration, deep dives and cave diving.
I would recommend that you meet with and discuss your goals with local instructors from both agencies.
All of these require a considerable commitment in time, dedication and money, but the rewards are spectacular.
PS there are other agencies, but I am less familiar with their programs.

Would you share with us your motivation to pursue that path?

I want to do deeper dives and on a rebreather because I'm an animal lover! I want to be one with the environment, I want the animals to think I'm supposed to be there instead of an intruder...I personally hate zoo's because the animals are captive...I want to see them as they live and most are below 130' and are scared by our out-breathing

not to mention that I have an interest in underwater video and photography

it's easier if you're not on OC

Mwahahaaa! Another one to the Dark Side. C'mon over. We'll set you up so you can see all the fish close up like family.

I would if I had the cash to invest in a CCR, in a heartbeat no less

[seafox]

I want to do deeper dives and on a rebreather because I'm an animal lover! I want to be one with the environment, I want the animals to think I'm supposed to be there instead of an intruder...I personally hate zoo's because the animals are captive...I want to see them as they live and most are below 130' and are scared by our out-breathing

not to mention that I have an interest in underwater video and photography

it's easier if you're not on OC

FinGraber,
I am usually pretty good at not assumimg anything. I work hard at it. Oviously not hard enough!
Another humbling experience!
So why is it that guys always want to deliver solutions, without understanding the problem?
So let me backup/strike over!!!!!!!
Now that I have a glimpse of your goals, this may be more what you are looking for:
Oops! solution mode again.....
OK than consider this:
*the freedom to dive as long as you want
*the freedom to ascend to the surface when you want
*the freedom of having the best nitrox machine right on your back; the best mix at any depth!
*the freedom of having sealife come right up to your mask and actually look at you
*the freedom to swim with a turtle 12" away
*the freedom to swim with a shark 24" away without spooking it
*the priviledge of staying by the anchor line after all the OC divers have left for the surface and watch the fish come out and allow you to mingle in their world undisturbed
*the freedom to be truly in tune with that quiet world, naturelly as it should be
*the freedom to feel that you are part of that universe
and so on and so on.........
And they call this the "dark side"!

Suggestion:
Do some research on RB's
Write down your goals.
See what meets your goals with respect to cost or time.
Then start shopping for your RB.
SDM and I think we have a darn good one.

[seafox]

I would if I had the cash to invest in a CCR, in a heartbeat no less

Once you add up the cost of new and additionnal equipment you need to dive deeper and longer, add training, and
you take into account the substantial savings on gas, (breathing gas), and then add the benefits to your diving life, for many years to come,
it almost becomes a no brainer.

[Diverbrian]

I would if I had the cash to invest in a CCR, in a heartbeat no less

Once you add up the cost of new and additionnal equipment you need to dive deeper and longer, add training, and
you take into account the substantial savings on gas, (breathing gas), and then add the benefits to your diving life, for many years to come,
it almost becomes a no brainer.

The problem arises when you have already invested a fair amount of time, training, and money into open circuit. That brings in the monkey wrench.

I will be on a CCR in a couple of years myself, but it will time to do the training and more time to come up with the cash for a CCR. But for anyone diving mix, we know that helium is NOT cheap . My motivations are the ability to do deeper dives for longer and do it more safely IMHO than on OC.

[6Gill]

Mwahahaaa! Another one to the Dark Side. C'mon over. We'll set you up so you can see all the fish close up like family.

An image of SDM dressed as a character from Lord of the Rings...so Fingrabber are you ready to sell your soul?

My motivations are the ability to do deeper dives for longer and do it more safely IMHO than on OC.

I think that both OC and CCR have advantages along with disadvantages(where the danger lies)that are different.Knowing the limitations of each system helps to make you a safer diver with what ever tool you choose to use.
Remember folks don't be so quick to abandon OC 'cause when the fecal matter hits the rotating agitator....OC is your bailout.

[ScubaDadMiami]

SDM and I think we have a darn good one.

Do you have an Optima?

[seafox]

SDM and I think we have a darn good one.

Do you have an Optima?

Yes indeed SDM! Got mine last November. 50 hours so far. Would probably have a few more hours if the water here was a little warmer (35F).

"Remember folks don't be so quick to abandon OC 'cause when the fecal matter hits the rotating agitator....OC is your bailout."

6Gill, you're absolutely correct. I never dive my RB without a bottle clipped to my side.
Besides, CCR's are absolutely amazing, quiet, no bubbles, best mix at any depth, ect.....BUT they are not for everybody.
OC is here to stay!

[ScubaDadMiami]

OC is here to stay!

I can't waiting for the development of a compact backup CCR so that I put an end to OC once and for all.

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[Diverbrian]

Actually the fact that a CCR diver needs to manage a bail-out bottle is one of the primary reasons that Advanced Nitrox is considered a pre-requisite to an Inspiration course.

I have to agree that in some form OC is here to stay. But, I wouldn't think that it takes near the "overlearning" of skills to dive that bail-out bottle back out as it does to manage a 180 ft. dive with doubles and a couple of deco bottles. If you are on the bail-out bottle, your dive is ending and you are heading back. Your gas manangement to ensure that the bail-out bottle(s) have enough gas to get you out was done on the surface.

As I have said before, a CCR is in my future. I just need to decide if I am going to finish up my tri-mix training on OC and start all over again on a rebreather, or learn the rebreather first in order to build up hours so that I feel comfortable using it to finish up my tri-mix training.