55 replies to this topic

[Scubatooth]

well there went the joke i was trying to add to the beating around the bush

oh well it happens

[seafox]

well there went the joke i was trying to add to the beating around the bush

oh well it happens

OOPS! sorry man

[Scubatooth]

no worries, i just hope that SDM has the same sense of humor

[Desert_Diver]

Didst though not forget to mention at least one other candidate for this list?

Yes he did!

The KISS Classic (or sport) is an exceptional unit!

I didn't think the off-the-shelf Classic was rated go below about 180 feet(?) due to the orifice. I'd seen a thread elsewhere that Gordon revised the KISS valve with a different orifice with deeper dives in mind. That's why Tubby's variation of the KISS valve uses a precision needle-valve (no limits).

BTW, the oft-quoted number in the RB community isn't what's used in industry for CMF design. The RB folks say it falls out of the supersonic/critical region when the IP equals 2X the ambient pressure at depth. That's true, but where they use CMF valves in the semiconductor industry, they generally use 1.6X 'cos the difference in mass flow isn't worth worrying about. That gives you a bit deeper depth before you get a noticeable change in flow. A friend of mine designs with CMF valves for making silicon wafers (I'm just an electronics jock, not an ME).

[ScubaDadMiami]

Didst though not forget to mention at least one other candidate for this list?

Yes he did!

The KISS Classic (or sport) is an exceptional unit!

Hardee-har-har. Very funny.

[PerroneFord]

I didn't think the off-the-shelf Classic was rated go below about 180 feet(?) due to the orifice.

I don't know. My diving certification is only to 60ft. Besides, there's nothing to see down there anyway..

[ScubaDadMiami]

there's nothing to see down there anyway..

Just keep telling that to everyone. More space on the boat for me.

[peterbj7]

there's nothing to see down there anyway..

Just keep telling that to everyone. More space on the boat for me.

I think Perrone is just demonstrating that he does have a sense of humour after all! Mind you, it's worrying just how many people seem to think it's true.

Edited by peterbj7, 31 July 2006 - 03:38 PM.

[Diverbrian]

there's nothing to see down there anyway..

Just keep telling that to everyone. More space on the boat for me.

I think Perrone is just demonstrating that he does have a sense of humour after all! Mind you, it's worrying just how many people seem to think it's true.

Actually, considering the skills of some people who wish to dive deep, I wish that more people believed that it is true .

Actually, for my purposes, I am looking into different CCR's. I need a little more data (non-biased type) on the Inspiration with Vision electronics. The instructor that I am looking at teaches Evolution and Inspiration. I will then need to find an instructor later (preferably in the Great Lakes area to allow easier access to the instructor) to finish up my Trimix training after I dive the unit for a while in order to do some of the dives that I now do on OC.

[PerroneFord]

Out of curiousity, why the inspiration/evolution? There's a LOT of good rebreathers out there.

I know an instructor up in the lakes area than can help you. Or you can do your training in sunny florida!

[Diverbrian]

Out of curiousity, why the inspiration/evolution? There's a LOT of good rebreathers out there.

I know an instructor up in the lakes area than can help you. Or you can do your training in sunny florida!

Due to travel expenses and time involved for said travel, there is only one type of training that I intend to take outside of the Great Lakes/ Thousand Islands area if I get to it. The instructor that I am talking to has worked with tech divers before and teaches out of Lake Champlain/Brockville (where I can stay with friends for a week for less than a hotel). I also am a believer in training in the type of conditions that you intend to dive in. For me, that means that want to train in cold, dark water and not warm water that I seldom see. He teaches on the Inspiration/Evolution. Asking around and reading through the training materials, the unit seems safe enough. I haven't noticed too many instructors/dealers on the other models up here.

As it is, I have a couple of years before I can build up the necessary vacation time and money to do CCR training. So unit preferences can still be influenced. I am still bouncing around ideas. Once I go to CCR, I will likely lose a good season of deep shipwreck diving while I get used to it and that is a consideration as well.

[ScubaDadMiami]

Once I go to CCR, I will likely lose a good season of deep shipwreck diving while I get used to it . . . .

Unfortunately, this appears to be the case. I have had my unit since January, and I think that I am now just starting to be ready to venture somewhat deeper again.

Just part of the dues we pay for better things. Remember, diving, like any of the world's other Great Religions, involves sacrifice and suffering.

[peterbj7]

I've owned quite a few Inspirations but none with the Vision electronics. The chief thing I've noticed about them is their unreliability, electronics-wise. And they've been costing me $1k about every 24 months for the electronics to be rebuilt/replaced. What I will look at soon (funds permitting) is the DR Optima, as I like DR's general philosophy and the modularity of the unit. I won't buy another Inspiration, and I certainly won't buy an Evolution as it wouldn't do what I want.

For a really "serious" CCR it has to be the Ouroborous. I was priviliged recently to dive with people on both the Evolution and the Ouroborous, and there's no question that the O. is the dogs b***ll*s. Not just high performing, but beautifully designed and built to last. No cheap plastic mouldings here. Mind you, it's not cheap.

Edited by peterbj7, 01 August 2006 - 07:23 PM.

[PerroneFord]

Well,

I've had a chance to play with the Boros, the Optima (a bit) the KISS, the Meg, and played with the Evolution at a dive show.

The DR has also been having problems with it's electronics. As did the Meg. Same manufacturer, same issues. Flooding.

If I was going to go deep, it's be the Boros or nothing for me. For shallow, it's KISS. No electronics to worry about. I just don't trust any of the others yet. I'll be doing orientations on the Boros and the KISS this winter.

The Inspiration just doesn't do it for me, though I know its very popular. The Evolution just doesn't make sense to me. A $10k unit with a 2 hour scrubber. The new 8hr canister for the Meg is AWFULLY tempting. I've had one in my hands! LOL!

If only I had the money... Maybe in a couple years I'll head down that path. I'd need to have my diving paid for to make it worthwhile.

[ScubaDadMiami]

Before plunking down my money, I had narrowed down my choices to the Meg and the Optima. I called Tom Mount to speak about making the decision (since he was to be my instructor, since he is the Godfather of rebreathers, because he is consulted by the industry for design of many units, and because he has experience on virtually every major unit out there).

I let him know that a lot of my reason for going CCR had to do with deep diving, and that I only wanted to consider units that were capable of doing the deep dives. I also told him that I originally was going to go with the Meg until I compared the two side by side, and that, although I still liked the Meg and how it appeared to be robustly constructed, I also really liked the Optima, the idea of using the Extend Air Cartridge (to virtually eliminate the chance for a caustic cocktail), the idea of containing most of its workings in a case, its hose routing (for wreck penetration), and how most of the components were scuba components that were being used in the industry for years. However, I told him that I had no agenda, and that I wanted to get the best unit for my kind of diving, and certainly one that would rank among the top contenders in the category of risk management and safety. I would seriously consider whatever unit he would recommend.

He told me that he really likes his Meg a lot because he does a lot of traveling, and because he has the packing of the unit into a small space down to a science after doing it for so long. However, he had a lot of favorable things to say about the Optima, and told me that it is an awesome unit for deep diving and wreck penetration. In the end, he told me that this would be the unit that he would advise for me to get, and he said that he would have no hesitation in diving the Optima on deep dives.

Now that I have owned and used the Optima, I would not have any problem with diving this unit to 300 feet, 400 hundred feet and beyond (other than my own lack of experience). I know that a lot of people get defensive about things like this, and it is like they become warriors for their cause as if someone else making another decision is a poke at their decision. However, this is the unit that is right for me. That does not mean it is the right unit for everyone (though I can see recreational to serious tech divers using it easily).

Many of the known units have issues. Many of them are good units, and might make better sense for one person or another. The Optima itself has had no problems though there have been problems with the cases for the computers. It sucked getting this part worked out.

However, I liken the issues to getting a new custom drysuit from DUI. These are great suits, and almost everyone agrees that DUI makes a quality product. However, you will frequenly hear about people waiting for their suits to arrive only to find that the cut was done incorrectly the first time around. The suit gets sent back, and then things get fixed, resulting in a great suit that last for a long time.

There are frequently issues with new products. However, I was informed about these going into this whole thing. In the balance, I still prefer the end result to be the best for me even if the short run had some bumps in the road.