83 replies to this topic

[Dive_Girl]

I'm a dive education moderator on a local PNW message board and I posted something similar on that board a while back and felt, in connection with recent training threads, the timing for this topic has come again.

We have a number of dive instructors who are members of this board; I am one of them. As such, I have found this board to be one of the most valuable resources for me to hear the complaints/concerns of divers regarding their training, especially when it comes to open water training. I have attempted to incorporate many of those "I wish my instructor would have told me this, shown me this, done this, covered this…etc." into my various classes. But too often, I find (or possibly miss) these useful comments buried in threads on other topics. So in this effort to continue to mold and better my classes and wanting to give the same opportunity to the other instructors on the board, I believe a thread specifically discussing this topic would be beneficial to all.

Some have said in the past it is not the certifying agency, but the instructor who makes a great class. There is some merit to this (agency differences aside) - the instructor is who guides the class. So, with this in mind, I am not looking to discuss the differing standards, skills, or qualities of the various agencies here.

Instead, here's your chance for you the student to teach the instructor! Please share the things that, looking back, you wished your instructor had either covered in class (please specify which level you are referencing) or information she/he would have made available to you or whatever else you think would be beneficial for us instructors to hear.

How much does an instructor who thinks they know everything really know? We should never stop learning, listening, and re-evaluating!!

[WreckWench]

Great post! It was all I could do to pass my open water class so I don't think that my instructor could have incorporated anything more without total overload. The only exception would be that I would have loved to had a women's perspective on diving as I had some of the classic fears that women have about about diving and their period, diving and makeup/sunscreen etc.

This should be a great thread...thank you for starting it!

[MNJoe]

I thought my dive training was great. I have never really understood all the hoopla going on about the different certifying agencies.

I am curious to see what is posted here. I think it is great that you have started such a thread.

Keith

[matts1w]

Awesome idea, Dive_Girl.

I remember when I was twenty I was pretty sure I had all the answers. I now realize at thirty-five I do not even know most of the questions yet.

[Latitude Adjustment]

I sat in on both my kids classes and was amazed at how much had been trimmed out of the course I took to make it "Basic" open water. When I asked about it I was told "That's why they need to take AOW" but how many actually do and go diving without all the info they need.

[captsteve]

i think that the navigation taught in aow should be taught in basic.

[WreckWench]

The cool thing would be if the industry actually wanted to go back to teaching more in the basic class and students were willing to pay for it and spend the time. Maybe discussions such as these will help them realize the trade offs. And maybe instructors will be more willing to ask students what they want rather than just offer 'one size fits all'.

Again great thread!

p.s. I think my open water class had the right amount of 'everything'...but then I learned 12 years ago too and it last 8 weeks which most divers will not invest that amount of time into. We met twice a week...once for classroom work and once for pool work.

[Dennis]

Having completed my Open Water in 1988, when everything that is now taught in OW and AOW, plus a little more, I don't think much was left out of my course. This should be interesting.

[Diverbrian]

I have to be honest. When I first took OW, I don't know if I would have been willing to take the time for that many of the better instructors put into their course now.

As it was I had to take five days of vacation time to go to the five class/pool sessions in five weeks as I work a straight afternoon schedule and I got twenty days a year total. That's a fair hunk of my vacation time. If you were to double it, you would see my logic on avoiding diving if the course had been longer. In the more advanced courses that I have taken, the classes were smaller and I could get the better training by working with the instructor to meet my schedule.

The actual OW portion should have been longer, but then again, we had cold students in the local lake. I wish that we could make our OW tour dives longer, but the dives tend to be ended by the "I'm cold" signal from the wetsuit students rather than breathing gas. I've not seen a student run much less than 1000 psi on an OW training dive and even that is rare. In my case, I would have loved to have done another dive at the end of the course as well. The quarry where I have been working with students the last two weekends is even worse for this.

For that reason, in the cold water, I would like to see more dives added to include navigation and basic rescue skills. Our instructors like to do a fifth dive just to introduce some of this. I would like to see hovering students from more instructors rather than the old fashioned "kneel on the platform" deal. The OW instructor who I was assisting last weekend went to great pains to tell her students that they were to touch the bottom for no reason whatsoever. That included skills. I LOVE seeing that.

[annasea]

<snip>or whatever else you think would be beneficial for us instructors to hear.

How much does an instructor who thinks they know everything really know? We should never stop learning, listening, and re-evaluating!!

Having made two attempts at an OW course, I'd like to chime in here if I may...

I think it's important to treat your students with respect (and empathy) and understand that not everyone learns at the same speed or in the same way.

If an instructor is not able to adapt to students' different learning styles, or has preconceived notions about how particular students will behave, then perhaps the instructor should consider informing potential students of this before the class starts in order to open up a discussion in which this apparent lack of compatibility can be resolved. If both parties decide that the instructor-student match is a poor one and will adversely affect both the teaching and the learning, then the class can be aborted before it's even begun in order to save both sides from the inevitable disappointment.

Another suggestion would be to thoroughly outline the course schedule, expectations and objectives for students before the class starts.

Despite having less than stellar experiences, I'm willing to try again. Hopefully the third time is indeed the charm!

[PerroneFord]

Glad to see you are NOT giving up Annasea! Different people learn different ways, and the pace is certainly not the same for everyone. Eager though I may be, I am not the fastest learning in the water. I was VERY fortunate to find a patient instructor who met my needs.

Sometimes there is no better instructor than the one who challenges you to do things, and you have no idea you're actually in the midst of a class. I'll relate a story.

I went to visit my potential instructor last fall. Told him that I wanted to be a wreck diver, etc. etc. Asked him if I could try out his pool and work on some of my skills to get comfortable before I took his Nitrox course. He said sure. As I was tooling around, I swam right into a net with a handle. I grabbed it and surfaced. I asked if he had thrown it in. He said yes. I asked what he wanted me to do with it. He replied, "pick up a bunch of those nuts off the bottom of the pool with the net and place them here on the side of the pool. So I dutifully went down, started filling the net with the many nuts and noticed my buoyancy and trim were all over the place. I came up and told him my problems and he smiled. He said, you're holding the net in your right hand, off to the side, and in front of you. So it's tipping you to the right, and making you do a headstand. AHA! So I went back centered the net, and did a much better job. After the dive, I realized that he was essentially teaching me about dynamic buoyancy and trim, had given me a lesson on taskloading, and had done it all in a way that challenged me to learn at my own pace.

When I toweled off and changed, he shared with me that as an Academic Program Director, he often had new divers that he had to turn into research divers in short order. This was one of the methods he used. Self-paced learning through challenges. And generally within 6 weeks, he had divers who could go out and do scientific work with reasonable proficiency. Made a lot of sense to me. And I went on to take his class, and even join his dive shop on a volunteer basis.

His experience in TEACHING, not just being a dive instructor, had given him tools to help an eager (perhaps over-eager) student, find a way to self-direct his dive instruction and move at a rapid pace. He's since allowed me to do a "discover SCUBA" session under his watchful eye. My 13 years as a coach allowed me to teach with patience, and allow the student to move on once they felt ready. Consequently, the young lady had a MARVELOUS esperience even though she couldn't SWIM. All precautions were taken, and she got a chance to sample what SCUBA was like when that would ordinarily have been out of her reach. Hopefully, she will work on her swimming this summer, and try to get certified next fall.

In my original SCUBA class, the only things really missing were my lack of knowledge about diving in general as I had not really been exposed to it other than on TV. Also missing was was discussion of trim, a true understanding how important buoyancy control truly is. Lastly, I felt the class was hurried. Not the instructors fault, but there were a lot of people in the class, and it was on a timetable. I MUCH prefer private or small group instruction. I think a max of 4 students per instructor is about right for my tastes.

[annasea]

Great story, Perrone! Thx for sharing!

I think there are plenty of good instructors out there -- whatever the discipline may be -- and then there are the rare few that have a *gift*. I had such a teacher in university for Art History. It was like watching a child at play... he had such a love and passion for art, and was so eager, happy and skilled to share it with others. Your instructor sounds the same.

[Desert_Diver]

The only thing my OW instructor neglected to mention (and it was missing from the PADI book at the time) was the pull-dump on the elephant-nose. Oops. If you don't mention little features like that, newbies can't be expected to figure 'em out on their own. Since then, I've learned a LOT of handy tricks and info just by watching other folks on trips and shootin' the breeze.

I'd read the book through 3 or 4 times 'till I had it memorized, but apparently most folks don't, per my instructor back then. He was really surprised that my brother and I were all ready to go when the class started. I guess folks that get certified in Maui usually do it as a 'spur of the moment' decision.


And I soundly second the 'navigation as part of the basic OW skills', Steve! I've missed before by quite a lot, but I had the general direction and distance down. I just forgot to account for the current...

[hnladue]

I would have liked more time spent on skills and correcting problems while under water. Also my 4th dive on OW was in zero vis.... I think all newbies should experience that!! In AOW, again more time on skills, navigation etc. Also more 'surprise' drills. In Rescue, I think more pool time would have been better. I think all students should practice 'what ifs' as often as possible. I like Dive Girls idea of refresher courses!! I would take up the LDS here is they did such a thing.

[BradfordNC]

The only thing my OW instructor neglected to mention (and it was missing from the PADI book at the time) was the pull-dump on the elephant-nose.

prolly because that is not a standard feature on BCDs. while they may be becoming more and more common, its a feature that isn't universaly accepted or enjoyed by divers. in some circles its considered a flawed and dangerous idea.


anyway, what did my instructors fail to mention?
hmmm, that if you want to meet single women, diving isn't the way to do it.
its better to get a puppy and hang out in the park.