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What was missing in your training?


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#16 captsteve

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 08:04 PM

The only thing my OW instructor neglected to mention (and it was missing from the PADI book at the time) was the pull-dump on the elephant-nose.


prolly because that is not a standard feature on BCDs. while they may be becoming more and more common, its a feature that isn't universaly accepted or enjoyed by divers. in some circles its considered a flawed and dangerous idea.


anyway, what did my instructors fail to mention?
hmmm, that if you want to meet single women, diving isn't the way to do it.
its better to get a puppy and hang out in the park. :banghead:





hmmmmmm...... going to the park now....see ya'll later!

#17 Desert_Diver

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 09:31 PM

The only thing my OW instructor neglected to mention (and it was missing from the PADI book at the time) was the pull-dump on the elephant-nose.


prolly because that is not a standard feature on BCDs. while they may be becoming more and more common, its a feature that isn't universaly accepted or enjoyed by divers. in some circles its considered a flawed and dangerous idea.

Flawed or not, it was on the BC I'd rented, so *someone* shoulda mentioned it to the clueless newbie! I didn't find out about it 'till the third or fourth dive when my inflator button stuck, and I couldn't spill air fast enough. 'Course, the inflator hose wouldn't come off in the few seconds I had, either. The instructor said "You should have pulled the shoulder dump" and I replied "What dump???"

Ya gotta love rental gear. That one dive told me I needed to buy my own gear, learn it's foibles and maintain it carefully. It was a good lesson, and I didn't have to get hurt to learn it (we were only 25' down).

#18 6Gill

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 09:35 PM



anyway, what did my instructors fail to mention?
hmmm, that if you want to meet single women, diving isn't the way to do it.
its better to get a puppy and hang out in the park. :banghead:





hmmmmmm...... going to the park now....see ya'll later!


Borrowing a small child that can then be directed towards a likely target has been known to work

#19 drbill

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 11:47 PM

Having completed my Open Water in 1988, when everything that is now taught in OW and AOW, plus a little more, I don't think much was left out of my course. This should be interesting.


Likewise here, although it was 1969. The course was very thorough by today's standards, including portions of Rescue Diver as well. Of course they didn't teach us about BCD's, octo's, SPG's or dive computers. But those either hasdn't been invented or weren't in common use.

A former military diver, my instructor was quite thorough. However he did things strictly by the book. When I would use my logic to address a problem, and come up with an answer that didn't match what was in the course, he wouldn't accept it. Teachers in school frequently do this as well. An instructor needs to be open to alternate views of a problem and assess their validity rather than dismiss them outright.

Edited by drbill, 02 May 2006 - 11:48 PM.


#20 Dennis

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 06:12 AM

Although in 1988 we had BCs, there was only one computer that I know of and that's the Edge. We didn't learn computers either, but had to use the US Navy dive tables. Walter had an Edge, still does. I think it works and from what I remember, it has one of the best, easy to read, and understand displays I have ever seen on a dive computer.
DSSW,
Dennis
"Suppose you were an idiot ... And suppose you were a member of Congress ... But I repeat myself." --Mark Twain

#21 peterbj7

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 07:20 PM

I started diving with BSAC at the end of the '70s. At that time their basic training included rescue skills, boat handling, weather (including "reading the sea") and all sorts of other good things. Against that the training took forever and many people dropped out. For warm water holiday diving we've probably sunk about as low as we can go in skills presented; for more serious diving we're well below where we should be.

#22 colby

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 07:10 AM

The one thing I've noticed through my training so far, and I am relatively new to this having done my OW, AOW, EFR and Deep in the last year, is the lack of gas management. It's touched on in the Deep book, but it always seems to be "get back on the boat with 500psi in the tank" It's just never HOW. When do you turn back, rule of thirds, half way, etc. Lots of opinions on the topic, and it is another topic. I just feel that they could have done it better. So now I'm doing my own research.

Great thread BTW.

#23 Capn Jack

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 07:43 AM

IFor warm water holiday diving we've probably sunk about as low as we can go in skills presented; for more serious diving we're well below where we should be.

Spot on.

Market forces have watered down (arrrh, horrible pun) the curriculum such that "certified" divers are safe, more or less, with considerable restrictions, and implied supervision (assumption of AOW as a minimum follow-on course for example). They certainly are not well-skilled in technique, and are not trained in contingency planning, gas management rules etc that are applicable to all divers. The assumption is they're on a supervised charter with some semblance of leadership - bad assumption when you and your DM do not have a common language, and you're in a 3rd world country with zero to minimal dive medical assistance etc etc.

I like the CMAS path - I think it's 30 dives under supervision. That's much more realistic in terms of what you can expect to be able to learn and manage to cover most eventualities, even for "resort" divers.

The dilemma I have is how do I effectively help manage another sea change?

Realistically, the cat is out of the bag, and I don't think the market audience will tolerate going back to a military style boot camp stretching out over weeks. Maybe we need to get X-treme SCUBA onto ESPN?

Sample event:
Deep Tank Toss - How deep a contestant can toss a disassembled tank, reg set and hog harness (not weaved, all loose) - free dive down, assemble everything to DIR standards and then remain at depth using rock-bottom formula (must be computed by hand on a slate created by using an old instructor slate and scotch brite, a piece of charcoal dredged from the sand and then executed using an hour-glass timer constructed in situ with ecologically friendly materials.

No aquarium, no tank in a marine land, however spacious it may be, can begin to duplicate the conditions of the sea. And no dolphin who inhabits one of those aquariums or one of those marine lands can be considered normal.
Jacques Yves Cousteau

#24 Guest_TexasStarfish_*

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 02:35 PM

This is a great thread! As an instructor all students' feedback is extremely useful. I've watched some dive instructors not pay attention to struggling students and not give those students the extra attention that they need. Everyone has a different pace and way of learning, its up to the instructor to learn what it is and adapt. Especially kids!!

I'm heavy on navigation, but that's because I'm used to diving where I can't see. If I couldn't rely on my compass, I would have been lost. On the first day of check outs, usually introduce the student to navigation and on the second day, allow them to do a little themselves (heavily monitored of course :)).

Also go over students' gear with them on the OW check outs and their buddies. That way they are familiar with it before descending and they feel more comfortable in the water.

Please keep your suggestions coming! There is always room for improvement!

:hiya:


#25 bjknight64

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 04:15 PM

Should have gotten a tshirt!

#26 mjarens

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 04:27 PM

Newbie here. OW March 06, AOW and Computer Nitrox Diver June 06. Very interesting topic. It has made me think back to my recent three courses, with three different instructors.

OW = Decided to do the classwork on CD at home on my computer. This was a real help for my learning style as I like to read everthing two to three times. I learn by repetition. I could watch the videos again if I missed anything. I took written notes on each chapter and saved them in a binder. I then hired an instructor, in a tropical (read warm water) setting, for private confined water and open water dives, which were done in a bay and off the shore in the ocean. I was lucky that the instructor (whom I picked off the internet and talked to via phone a couple of times before we met for the classes) and I clicked. He couldn't have been better. Luck of the draw, I guess. He taught by repetition - gear donning and removal, techinques to learn how to accomplish the skills that are required. He had the patience of a skilled teacher and a deep love of diving . And he also made the learning interesting with information regarding the fish and critters we might see during our open water dives. He was a task master, and that made me feel like I was really getting the education I was craving. He didn't breeze over any of the material from the course work and actually added to the knowledge I had gained from the class work.

AOW & CND = I took both of these courses while on a weeklong ( 5 1/2 day) live aboard trip 90 days after my OW certification. This was a very good opportunity to continue on the OW learning I had just completed. My AOW instructor handed me the big thick book and told me which chapters I had to read, and to pick three additional areas to work on. I know I needed additional guidance with bouyancy control and I wanted to do the navigation course too, so I did those and also boat diving, deep diver and night diver. My instructor mostly left me to reading the chapters and taking the quizzes then reviewing them with me. She was not what I would call "as attentive to adding verbal detail" as my OW instructor had been. But I just assumed she figured I knew everything from reading. She always asked if I had any questions. I really appreciated learning the navigation portion, and just bought myself a compass today!

In addition to AOW, I kind of got talked into doing the Computer Nitrox Diver class. This was because the other divers on the trip were all Nitrox certified or taking the CND class on this trip. I would have been the only non-Nitrox diver on board all week. So I agreed to take that course too. The reading material was for the most part pretty dry. I did not enjoy it, and had to reread some chapters two or three times just to obsorb it. I'm not of a science or math mind, so it was just more difficult for me to grasp. The instructor for this class did answer my questions as I was working through the reading. It kind of all came together for me while we were reviewing the material with the other five students.

I think that combining the OW and AOW curriculum into one class would be difficult, and I am glad it isn't offered as one class. Even though I am very comfortable in the ocean, the physical demands of OW were tough enough for me starting out. It would have been overwhelming with AOW added to it at the same time. Doing the AOW and CND during the same 5 1/2 days, along with 19 dives stretched me pretty thin. I read over 350 pages of material, some pretty technical. I will not combine this much work in that short of time again.

Just my 2 cents,
mjarens

Edited by mjarens, 12 July 2006 - 04:31 PM.


#27 born2dive67

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 07:08 PM

Luckily for me where and when turned out very good for me, as I had the instuctor all to myself. I read and did my quizes the night before and she was really surprised when I was able to use the RDC's with only little hang up when going from chart 2 back to chart 1. I am actually wanting to do some more of that and if an instuctor or 2 or 3 here would like to pose questions like these and have ansered back through messages it would be awesome, but I understand also this would be a commitment thing (I put answered in messages so as not to have answers posted, keep me honest please ;P). I have read in here people mention learning kicking techniques, my instuctor did not go over these at all with me after she saw me in the pool, she even asked me if I attended a scuba class before which I haven't. I am side tracking here though, I have seen mention of frog kick's and I realize that this is what I saw my DI and the DM using but was never taught at all. Is it something that should have been taught? Since I was alone with the instuctor she had me doing lots of pivots for my bouancy control.

#28 PerroneFord

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:11 PM

Generally frog kicks aren't taught unless you are doing overhead training. Or so it seems.

#29 annasea

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:31 PM

Newbie here. OW March 06, AOW and Computer Nitrox Diver June 06. Very interesting topic. It has made me think back to my recent three courses, with three different instructors.

<snip>


Seeing as this is your first post (and what a post! :lmao:)...

:lmao: to SD, mjarens! If you're interested in meeting some new local dive buddies, check out THIS THREAD.










#30 Guest_TexasStarfish_*

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 09:30 PM

Back to frog kicks...

I teach three kicks during the snorkel portion of the pool work. Regular, frog, and dolphin kick. That way students can use what they are most comfortable with underwater.

That's for OW, for anything past that it is more about diving and getting an overview of specialties than teaching basic skills.

:cheerleader:





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