83 replies to this topic

[Racer184]

What was missing?

Missing from my basic open water:

• WHERE to go diving that is appropriate to a 'beginning diver'
• How to tell if you are renting junk.
• How to tell if the dive shop people are actually experienced divers.
• How to tell if the boat captain is inept/unqualified/drunk before you put your gear on the boat.
• How to tell if the boat is appropriate for a 'new' diver
• What is the difference between a 'six pack' boat and larger boats. (Captain requirements, equipment, inspections etc. It seems to me a 'beginning diver' will be better off on a larger boat if that boat has a good crew and not too many 'beginning divers'.)
• How much to tip / whom to tip
• How to find a dive buddy that is appropriate to your ability / desires / goals
• What 'emergency equipment' you should have for what situation (dye marker, inflatable marker, first aid kit)

Missing from every course after that; sign language !
At a minimum I think no one should be allowed to do any course beyond basic open water until after they can PROPERLY finger spell in English. I can't believe some of the disco dancing I see underwater and then on the surface the 'buddy' says "how come you didn't understand I wanted you to grab that moray eel for a picture?"

[Stephanie]

What was missing?

Missing from my basic open water:

• WHERE to go diving that is appropriate to a 'beginning diver'
• How to tell if you are renting junk.
• How to tell if the dive shop people are actually experienced divers.
• How to tell if the boat captain is inept/unqualified/drunk before you put your gear on the boat.
• How to tell if the boat is appropriate for a 'new' diver
• What is the difference between a 'six pack' boat and larger boats. (Captain requirements, equipment, inspections etc. It seems to me a 'beginning diver' will be better off on a larger boat if that boat has a good crew and not too many 'beginning divers'.)
• How much to tip / whom to tip
• How to find a dive buddy that is appropriate to your ability / desires / goals
• What 'emergency equipment' you should have for what situation (dye marker, inflatable marker, first aid kit)

Missing from every course after that; sign language !
At a minimum I think no one should be allowed to do any course beyond basic open water until after they can PROPERLY finger spell in English. I can't believe some of the disco dancing I see underwater and then on the surface the 'buddy' says "how come you didn't understand I wanted you to grab that moray eel for a picture?"

I couldn't agree more with your "what was missings!" I lucked out and one of my good dive buddies is an instructor, helps to work at a dive shop all summer! As for the sign language, I'm actually back in school getting my interpreation degree in sign.. But.. none of my other dive buddies know it, so they look at me like I'm crazy!

[diverdeb]

You guys need to take SeaSigns! It's an adaptation of ASL (American Sign Language) for scuba. I have signed for years (nothing like you're doing Stephanie, but I have had quite a few classes) and it has always been SO frustrating to me that I could communicate underwater - except that no one knew what I was saying! Then a few years ago I taught a deaf man to sign - we had a blast!!! All the other divers were so jealous that we could communicate so well.

So now I teach SeaSigns. It's a very basic course with about 100 signs, but they've been adapted to diving (gloves, etc.). I have a couple of friends that actually took a beginner sign language class just to communicate better underwater, unfortunately either there were no signs for things they needed or that wasn't something covered in a basic class.

I'm glad you guys "reactivated" the this thread! Lots of great info.

[Stephanie]

You guys need to take SeaSigns! It's an adaptation of ASL (American Sign Language) for scuba. I have signed for years (nothing like you're doing Stephanie, but I have had quite a few classes) and it has always been SO frustrating to me that I could communicate underwater - except that no one knew what I was saying! Then a few years ago I taught a deaf man to sign - we had a blast!!! All the other divers were so jealous that we could communicate so well.

So now I teach SeaSigns. It's a very basic course with about 100 signs, but they've been adapted to diving (gloves, etc.). I have a couple of friends that actually took a beginner sign language class just to communicate better underwater, unfortunately either there were no signs for things they needed or that wasn't something covered in a basic class.

I'm glad you guys "reactivated" the this thread! Lots of great info.

There is a book on Scuba Diving Signs that I have. Very interesting and extremely helpful, IF there is someone that understands what you are saying. I might actually take the SeaSign class if I have the chance though, always love to learn more and nothing like being able to combine my love for ASL with my love for Diving!!

[diverdeb]

You guys need to take SeaSigns! It's an adaptation of ASL (American Sign Language) for scuba. I have signed for years (nothing like you're doing Stephanie, but I have had quite a few classes) and it has always been SO frustrating to me that I could communicate underwater - except that no one knew what I was saying! Then a few years ago I taught a deaf man to sign - we had a blast!!! All the other divers were so jealous that we could communicate so well.

So now I teach SeaSigns. It's a very basic course with about 100 signs, but they've been adapted to diving (gloves, etc.). I have a couple of friends that actually took a beginner sign language class just to communicate better underwater, unfortunately either there were no signs for things they needed or that wasn't something covered in a basic class.

I'm glad you guys "reactivated" the this thread! Lots of great info.

There is a book on Scuba Diving Signs that I have. Very interesting and extremely helpful, IF there is someone that understands what you are saying. I might actually take the SeaSign class if I have the chance though, always love to learn more and nothing like being able to combine my love for ASL with my love for Diving!!

What's the book? I'd love to get a copy. I try to add some useful signs to my SeaSigns class whenever I can.

[Stephanie]

Deb,
Here is a link to it on Amazon. http://www.amazon.co...a...1659&sr=8-1 Hopefully it's helpful!

[pir8]

Deb,
Here is a link to it on Amazon. http://www.amazon.co...a...1659&sr=8-1 Hopefully it's helpful!

I got the same book from DAN several years ago. I think they still have it on their website.

[diverdeb]

I'm a dive education moderator on a local PNW message board and I posted something similar on that board a while back and felt, in connection with recent training threads, the timing for this topic has come again.

We have a number of dive instructors who are members of this board; I am one of them. As such, I have found this board to be one of the most valuable resources for me to hear the complaints/concerns of divers regarding their training, especially when it comes to open water training. I have attempted to incorporate many of those "I wish my instructor would have told me this, shown me this, done this, covered this…etc." into my various classes. But too often, I find (or possibly miss) these useful comments buried in threads on other topics. So in this effort to continue to mold and better my classes and wanting to give the same opportunity to the other instructors on the board, I believe a thread specifically discussing this topic would be beneficial to all.

Some have said in the past it is not the certifying agency, but the instructor who makes a great class. There is some merit to this (agency differences aside) - the instructor is who guides the class. So, with this in mind, I am not looking to discuss the differing standards, skills, or qualities of the various agencies here.

Instead, here's your chance for you the student to teach the instructor! Please share the things that, looking back, you wished your instructor had either covered in class (please specify which level you are referencing) or information she/he would have made available to you or whatever else you think would be beneficial for us instructors to hear.

How much does an instructor who thinks they know everything really know? We should never stop learning, listening, and re-evaluating!!

Thanks for the input Stephanie & Pir8. I'll have to order a copy.

Back to the original thread - do any of our new members have some input on this topic? It's a great discussion.

[georoc01]

The one thing I noticed is that time is a big factor. One of the things brought up a couple of years ago was task overloading. The more time the students have to process everything that is being taught the better. I did my classroom/pool work over three weeks. Just having that time between classes made a big difference in our class and its success. I have since had friends do it in a single weekend. Same out of classroom/pool time, but without that time inbetween, there isn't the time to process what you have learned. It also gave a chance for those that were struggling to get some one on one time with the instructor or even just time in a pool with snorkel equipment and get comfortable with a mask. Its much more challenging in a short timeframe for the students to process all that needs to be covered and be comfortable enough afterwards.

Next is comfort with the equipment. Going from confined to open water, I have seen people change gear, have different conditions that can affect how well the students do. I was fortunate enough to do my open water in warm fresh water in a fairly small class. When I have seen larger classes in cold water where now you add the task loading of a farmer john, lower visibility and more weight.

A good friend of mine compared Getting your OW cert is the equivilient of getting a learners permit for a drivers license. Where to go from there is the next challenge. Having groups like SingleDivers.com were you can dive with experienced divers that are willing to help really makes a big difference in becoming a safe diver.

[Parrotman]

I was the only student in my class and I am not sure that was a good thing. Although I got plenty of attention from my instructor, it did not prepare me at all for diving in a group enviornment such as a boat with 20 divers on it. Aside from that what I think lacking the most was how to manage your air consumption and proper weighting.

After I was certified and started diving on trips I realized that I knew nothing about either of these topics. I taught myself how to control my breathing etc. Afer diving for 15 years I can honestly say that I have never been on a dive trip where I have not seen at least one diver that had no idea how to control their air consumption or what proper weighting is.

[WreckWench]

Having groups like SingleDivers.com were you can dive with experienced divers that are willing to help really makes a big difference in becoming a safe diver.

And yes it is one of the community cultures we enjoy fostering!

[WreckWench]

What was missing?

Missing from my basic open water:

• WHERE to go diving that is appropriate to a 'beginning diver'
• How to tell if you are renting junk.
• How to tell if the dive shop people are actually experienced divers.
• How to tell if the boat captain is inept/unqualified/drunk before you put your gear on the boat.
• How to tell if the boat is appropriate for a 'new' diver
• What is the difference between a 'six pack' boat and larger boats. (Captain requirements, equipment, inspections etc. It seems to me a 'beginning diver' will be better off on a larger boat if that boat has a good crew and not too many 'beginning divers'.)
• How much to tip / whom to tip
• How to find a dive buddy that is appropriate to your ability / desires / goals
• What 'emergency equipment' you should have for what situation (dye marker, inflatable marker, first aid kit)

Missing from every course after that; sign language !
At a minimum I think no one should be allowed to do any course beyond basic open water until after they can PROPERLY finger spell in English. I can't believe some of the disco dancing I see underwater and then on the surface the 'buddy' says "how come you didn't understand I wanted you to grab that moray eel for a picture?"

Yep...that is an awesome list! It took a lot of school of hard knocks to learn all of that!

[KeithT4U]

I think another is where to dive. I see lots of bodies of water, some with fishermen on the banks, some with small boat docks and some that say swimming is ok. A very small few say diving is ok. Having now dove in a pond in the middle of a city park it makes me wonder where else one can dive.

Keith

[VADiver]

What was missing?
....

Missing from every course after that; sign language !
At a minimum I think no one should be allowed to do any course beyond basic open water until after they can PROPERLY finger spell in English. I can't believe some of the disco dancing I see underwater and then on the surface the 'buddy' says "how come you didn't understand I wanted you to grab that moray eel for a picture?"

Underwater communication is key.

That's why it's important to pick a dive buddy, plan your dive and go over the hand signals before you hit the water. This should be done on land before the dive--that way you can review everything and make sure you're both on the same page.

For example...I'm taking a class with another guy, but I'll head down several days earlier to meet him, get some dives in and make sure we are both comfortable with each other.

[pmarie]

For example...I'm taking a class with another guy, but I'll head down several days earlier to meet him, get some dives in and make sure we are both comfortable with each other.

I have always made an effort since my AOW cert to dive with someone prior to taking any class from them. Just to make sure we can communicate. On the reverse of that; have done several dives with someone and every single time I always ask if we have any communication issues we need to work on prior to jumping in. Truthfully, we work on those in both written and verbal communications as well. We always review our signals with each other before to our dive/s.

Racer184 really nailed a lot of issues. I spent a lot of time looking at websites then once the "internet cut" was made I made phone calls to see how the operators interacted with me. If they wanted to get off the phone fast, were they willing to take time, did they discourage me from diving with them when I was a fresh newbie, did they offer constructive advice, provide information about lodging if necessary, and overall experience they had, longevity of employees....these are questions I asked since almost all of the time I was diving without any sort of regular buddy, it was truly an instabuddy situation 95% of my diving. If they could not give me 5-10 minutes on the phone, I really did not want to be on their boat.