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How deep is too deep...for their little growing bones?


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#1 dad+2(.5)

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 09:11 PM

:unsure: :o :( Recently one of my tadpoles asked me if she could go diving with me when she got her cert later this summer, of course I said sure but it would be limited....only problem is I dont know where to set the limit...one diver told me no more than 30ft a couple told me 15ft and afew have said not more than 50ft......has anyone made a study of water pressure on little bones?

Edited by dad+2(.5), 09 July 2006 - 09:11 PM.

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#2 Scubatooth

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 09:17 PM

Robert

the problem is that there is no real data on the subject because the medical establishment wont cross that boundry (ethics). I too am looking for data on this as my uncles kids are interested in diving after they heard that i dive and see so many things underwater.

Personally i would rather not mess with a kids development and not let them dive till there 16 (after a majority of growth is finished) as i wouldnt want to damage there growth plates. but then the biggest thing it comes down to is maturity and responsiblity as theres a lot going on in your mind during a dive, is a kiddo capable or ready for it.

Im gonna be contacting DAN here in a couple of days to see what data they have on the subject. but if you find any data feel free to share

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#3 finGrabber

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 09:20 PM

The max depth for a PADI Junior Open Water diver is 40 feet

I'm with Dan though, there's not alot of really good information regarding how pressure affects bone growth not to mention narcosis

So, I'd say do alot of research first!

#4 captsteve

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 09:21 PM

I dont think i would be worried from that point of view. I doubt a little pressure would have any negative impact. I would be more concerned with the basics.

#5 dad+2(.5)

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 09:53 PM

:unsure: :o :( So far we have done quite a few pool dives and she feels very confortable and confident...of course that my all change in open water..my problem is I stuck my foot in my mouth and told her she could get the cert before I learned that there was questions about pressure and growth...so I need to come up with something outside the pool ..but still safe for her growth
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#6 finGrabber

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 10:08 PM

I dont think i would be worried from that point of view. I doubt a little pressure would have any negative impact. I would be more concerned with the basics.


I DM'd a class a few weeks ago with a bunch of kids in it...the kids did better than the adults but the adults were way more serious; the kids were floating upside down, swimming like arrows, hovering off the platform with ease

there was a 10 year old boy who looked like a fish in the water! I asked him later how long he had been swimming and he said since he could remember...he is a natural...I suspect the basics depend on the kid and the kids family

#7 Dennis

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 06:42 AM

I limited my kids dives to 40 ft until they were 18. Of course, they are over 18 and can't afford to dive now. One day.
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#8 drbill

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 10:16 AM

Of course, they are over 18 and can't afford to dive now. One day.


Oh, my goodness, Dennis. Did they grow up to be starving artists... or marine biologists!

I can't speak as a human physiologist here... I am not well versed in vertebrate biology, only kelp and inverts. I wonder if infrequent exposure to the pressures experienced while diving would really have much effect on skeletal growth. If the child were doing repetitive dives every day, this might be a serious issue. For a child doing an occasional shallow dive now and then (say 2-4 a week) I can't imagine this would be a significant issue.

Disclaimer: I am not a medical doctor and don't even play one on TV.

#9 Latitude Adjustment

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 11:43 AM

The max depth for a PADI Junior Open Water diver is 40 feet

I'm with Dan though, there's not alot of really good information regarding how pressure affects bone growth not to mention narcosis

So, I'd say do alot of research first!


Did PADI change it because I'm sure my son's Jr. OW said 60 feet but that was 15 years ago.

My ex's cousin owned a Gold gym and he won't let kids use the equipment because their bones are still flexable but in diving the pressure is equal all the way around. The big problem is the US Navy tables were developed from data on 18 and older males, the English Navy took them younger but at what age do they let them dive?
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#10 finGrabber

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 03:32 PM

The max depth for a PADI Junior Open Water diver is 40 feet

I'm with Dan though, there's not alot of really good information regarding how pressure affects bone growth not to mention narcosis

So, I'd say do alot of research first!


Did PADI change it because I'm sure my son's Jr. OW said 60 feet but that was 15 years ago.

My ex's cousin owned a Gold gym and he won't let kids use the equipment because their bones are still flexable but in diving the pressure is equal all the way around. The big problem is the US Navy tables were developed from data on 18 and older males, the English Navy took them younger but at what age do they let them dive?


I'm not sure when it was changed but I know that's the depth limit these days

#11 ScubaGypsy

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 03:44 PM

The max depth for a PADI Junior Open Water diver is 40 feet


Did PADI change it because I'm sure my son's Jr. OW said 60 feet but that was 15 years ago.

My understanding is that the limits are 40' for ages 10-11 and 60' for ages 12-14. Above the age of 15 is the same as for adults.

Edited by ScubaGypsy, 10 July 2006 - 03:44 PM.

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#12 blacktar

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 03:56 PM

Another aspect that you might want to look at is how will a small child be in an emergency situation. Even if they are very mature. If you are depending on them as your buddy will he or she be able to rescue you? I believe some agencies recomend that there be two adults for every young child as a buddy team. That way if something happens to an adult in the middle of a dive there will be another adult there to help out.
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#13 dad+2(.5)

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 04:28 PM

Another aspect that you might want to look at is how will a small child be in an emergency situation. Even if they are very mature. If you are depending on them as your buddy will he or she be able to rescue you? I believe some agencies recomend that there be two adults for every young child as a buddy team. That way if something happens to an adult in the middle of a dive there will be another adult there to help out.
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#14 twister8

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 11:40 PM

Well some food for thought.
My fist dive was in the Bahamas at the age of 12. We stopped at a reef that was about 70í It had a drop off to about 90í. Being that this was my first time to ever see a regulator or put one in my mouth. You would think this would be a good place to snorkel. But with only about 5 ft swells out our instructor Thought this would be a great place for my Sisters and Momís to make their first dive ever. After they both stepped off the boat and into the water they stated having trouble with the waves, and they both came straight back aboard.
So I strap on about 35lb. of lead and a 80 what I think was a steel tank and in I go. The DM did my bouncy for me so about 6í in we stopped to make sure I was OK and to show me some nurse sharks and then down we went . Things seemed to go well until about 60í then things were starting to slow down. We came to a stop about 87í and there we stopped. I really donít recall much after 65í or so. I was told I saw a grouper as big as me, and a couple of lemon sharks. To this I canít tell you maybe narcosis maybe nerves I donít know but about Ĺ way through the dive my weight belt dropped down to my knees. At 12 with that much weight on me is all I could do was hold on to it. After what seemed to be some time I thought I need to let the instructor know what is going on here. This took some time and without really being able to move it was very hard but somehow I was able to bump his arm

He was able to signal the DM that was with us and they took quite some time getting my weight belt back in place.
After our safety stop I am told we took I Remember the ok hand signal the instructor gave me and we broke the surface.
Wow what a dive at 12 I had been deeper than a lot of the divers that were on our dive boat, and without a C-card was I cool or what lol.

So in your search for should young oneís dive or not remember your first dive and then think kids want everyone to think they are big and they believe they can handle anything you tell them they can.
I am not sure about my little one yet but she is 5 so I have some time. One thing I am sure of she will not be doing any deep diving until she is old enough to make that call for her self.

Be safe and have fun
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#15 Scubatooth

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 12:16 AM

wow this thread is a year old and i still have the same opinion in that kids under 16 should not be diving as theres to many unknowns on how it will affect there growth and development.

with that one year having gone by and having been through a DAN internship let me add this. In that there will never be any research into this subject as the moral and ethical issues could not be rectified as no IRB (Institue Research Board) would authorize any such study as where injuring/disabling a child would potentially occur. This is why there are the guidelines of shallower then XX(depends on the agency) feet and its mainly because of the lack of nitrogen loading at those shallow depths.

My agency im certified through may say that a 10 yr could get a JrOW, but if i was the one teaching the class i wouldn't do it as i don't want to have that on my conscious if something happened down the road, and i would tell the parent why i object to certify a child based on the research i have seen. There are just to many "Ifs" for it to be safe in my mind. Then if later i saw the child diving i would have to question the true motives of the parent after explained it to them.

This summer i saw a broad spectrum of young divers but for the most part its my opinion that they wouldnt be able to handle a emergancy underwater (first hand experience at that). In general for the most part the children can not comprehend what they are doing(yes they may be able to do the academics and skills but beyond that they dont have a clue) or what could happen to them completely and as such I think that it is a activity that should wait until they are mature enough and finished growing.

They will have the rest of there life to enjoy the UW world; let them grow up on the surface and mature before teaching them about the UW world.

as for the navy question they will take 17 yr olds into the diving program as the academic and PT parts take more then a year, so by the time they actually get to dive they will be 18. the average age of most new US Navy divers are 19-20, and most senior divers are retired by 35-38. if they where sat rats(sat = saturation) usually much earlier but dont know for sure how much sooner, my source was in the sub salve group of the US Navy Dive Command.

FWIW, IMHO, YMMV

Tooth

Edited by Scubatooth, 10 September 2007 - 12:22 AM.

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