66 replies to this topic

[gcbryan]

After reading one of the other threads on this board I ran accross a comment by PJ I think that I totally agree with. Diving is diving and to me there is no real distinction or need for a distinction between rec and tec. For that matter there is no need to label or divide divers along any lines.

I know that there are rec courses and those considered tec but there is no real distinction to me. Certainly taking a class does not move someone from one category to another. There are those doing "demanding" dives that have never had a tec class and others with many classes who have never done a "demanding" dive.

As was mentioned earlier most of the concepts regarding planning and deco are just as important for the newest diver to understand as for anyone else.

It's all just diving. I think the exchange of information among all of us based on our differing experiences is why this board is here.

I don't know if this thread will go on very long as I don't really have a point for it other than to state the obvious (to me) that diving is diving.

I think everyone is interested (if they aren't already familiar) with gas planning, figuring SAC rates, understanding deco, why one might use a computer in gauge mode, body positioning in the water, for info regarding ascents, etc.

It's true that if you already understand these things you might not read or learn much from a post on these topics but you can contribute your experience if other's are interested.

The cool thing is most everyone on this board knows something about diving that most everyone else would like to learn or discuss since we all dive in differring conditions. Diving is a pretty varied subject.

Although I already mentioned it once I for one would like to hear a trip report on Perrone's Oriskany dive last weekend. Most of the trip reports seem to be about SD tropical trips and what a good time everyone had (which is good of course) but I'd like to hear more from everyone's weekend trips.

That's all

Edited by gcbryan, 10 August 2006 - 06:55 AM.

[Walter]

The term "technical diving" is worse than useless. Various agencies and groups have different definitions of the term, so it's impossible to know exactly what someone means when the use it. Even when everyone agrees on the definition (for example when instructors from a single agancy are having a discussion), what's the purpose of using the term? Usually, cave diving is considered "technical" as is trimix diving and penetration of wrecks. Using those as an example it's quite common to have three "technical" divers who are all highly skilled and well trained, none of whom are qualified to do what the other does regularly. I would not refer to them as "technical" divers. I would refer to them as a cave diver, a trimix diver and a wreck penetration diver. Those terms actually mean something. The term "technical" diver seems to be nothing more than an ego trip. Unless one is diving as a job, the diver is doing it for recreation and is a recreational diver.

[Diverbrian]

Walter,

I was more in agreement with your point until being told that I couldn't take an AL40 of EAN50 on a charter because a "tech charter" hadn't been paid for. Therefore (I was told), I would have no need for any mix richer than the EANx in my tanks (since I wouldn't be diving outside of no stop limits) on the wrecks which lie in 100 to 120 ft. of water and it wouldn't be allowed on the boat. I used that bottle of EAN50 in Florida on "recreational" charters with you on the boat and I have never been given a hassle about using it up here, even on rectreational charters (The understanding on a "recreational" up here typically involves no stop limit or very light deco).

I have actually always been to in the "can't we all get along?" school. I remain there. In the minds of some operators, there is a difference, however. Because of that, I have backed out of a couple of charters up here as I am far more cautious about plunking down my money to risk being told that I can't do what I want to do. A "technical" charter is more expensive (as fewer people are on the boat), but the other divers on board do NOT dictate what your bottom times and maximum depth are.

BTW, I still get a lot of pressure up here to travel down to Florida to take cave training from my buddies. Most of that group are cave divers as well as trimix and wreck penetration. The common tactic to learn wreck penetration in the Great Lakes is to take cave training as wreck penetration courses are harder to complete. They rely on weather that can turn at the drop of a hat. I do two out of the three types of diving. I just don't get enough vacation to spend a week of it every year down in N. Florida and still do my beloved Great Lakes shipwreck diving. I personally couldn't call myself a cave diver even if I got the card. A crash course on cave diving does not give me the experience of any of the luminaries of the cave community. That experience is what makes them cave divers, not simply the skills.

[Basslet]

Gee, and I thought we all got along pretty well here compared to some other boards.

[Diverbrian]

Gee, and I thought we all got along pretty well here compared to some other boards.

Actually, we do get along here quite well as compared to other boards. I am a member of one board where I rarely post because of the "get some dive time before you even think about posting here" attitude prevalent there. Many of the members on that board don't seem to even want to talk to you unless you are cave trained. Then another board that I am on is just the opposite, my diving is beyond "recreational limits" and most of the divers in my portion of it aren't interested in posts that refer to more extreme diving as they will never do it.

You just see a few flare-ups here as we are all human beings with our own views. That will happen anywhere. You should have seen the "busting of chops" between the surface Navy and submarine Navy if you think that things get bad here, LOL!

[Geek]

I agree that compared to other boards I have been on, this one is pretty friendly, despite a wide diversity of diving experience and interests.

While there are lots of definitions of Rec vs. Tec I tend to think of Tec as being anything with an overhead, including deco diving. There are others who include mixes in the definition, but if you are using something that would be defined as a Tec mix, you're probably doing decompression diving, so you still fall within my definition. I am sure others may view my definiton as overly simplistic.

Introducing overhead factors represents a significant jump in the level of diving being done, so the Rec vs. Tec lingo can be useful for discussing diving. On the other hand, the simple fact that some are doing Tec diving and others aren't should not be a reason why we can't dive together, or converse on a discussion board together.

I think this board proves that the issues on other boards are more about the individuals moderating or contributing to those boards, rather than anything inherent in the style of diving being done.

[sudsymark]

I'm glad we are such a friendly board and can learn from everyone's experiences. I haven’t had much chance to learn cave or wreck diving but after reading some of the threads I know I can make an intelligent decision when and if I do.

[ScubaDadMiami]

There is no reason why everyone can't get along and enjoy each other's company. Tech people do not make every single dive below 400 feet. I am quite happy on a shallow, pristine reef just as I am on a deeper wreck. It's all about diversity in diving and online. That's what keeps it fun for me.

The only time that conflict can develop is due to circumstances that result in both groups not getting enough of what they want. So, we ask everyone from all sides to contribute what they know.

We have had some interesting subjects that are out of the ordinary come up on this site. The one that dealt with our resident jewelry expert telling us about dive watches was pretty unique. So, it doesn't all have to be about "picking the color of my weight belt" versus "Van der Waals equation partial pressure fill calculations." We can all get something from everyone. Not everyone is an expert in everything. Even novices in one department are experts in others for something that relates to diving.

I am hear to contribute and learn. We encourage everyone to do the same. Not interested in a particular thread? Move on to the next. Please don't complain that it is not fun or interesting to you because it might mean a lot to someone else. Fair enough?

[Walter]

Brian,

The captain(?) in question is using a term, "tech," because it's become common to do so even though it's a meaningless term. What he was trying (poorly, IMO) to tell you was decompression diving was not allowed on that charter. By many definitions of "tech" you could easily make a "technical" dive and the captain would never know it. You would not have an unusually long bottom time. All you need to do, is go inside the wreck. As long as you stay within no deco limits (or close to them, how would he know?) you can make "technical" dives without extra equipment (deco bottles) that takes the extra space for which they charge extra on deco trips (yes, I know they call the tech trips).

As for making wreck penetrations with cave training, not a very good idea. When I was young and foolish, I took a cave instructor inside a wreck, he almost didn't make it out alive. Never again. Wrecks and caves have similarities, but they are different. I'd never think I have the training or experience to enter a cave. It goes both ways.

[ScubaDadMiami]

What he was trying (poorly, IMO) to tell you was decompression diving was not allowed on that charter.

No, what he was trying to say was that even remaining within the no decompression limits, we still could not carry extra gas to enhance our margins. But, I digress. You really don't want to open up this can of worms again.

[Walter]

What he was trying (poorly, IMO) to tell you was decompression diving was not allowed on that charter.

No, what he was trying to say was that even remaining within the no decompression limits, we still could not carry extra gas to enhance our margins. But, I digress. You really don't want to open up this can of worms again.

Was it the pony bottle to which he objected or the EAN 50?

[annasea]

<snip>

I am hear to contribute and learn. We encourage everyone to do the same. Not interested in a particular thread? Move on to the next. Please don't complain that it is not fun or interesting to you because it might mean a lot to someone else. Fair enough?

Well said, Howard.

[Capn Jack]

Gee, and I thought we all got along pretty well here compared to some other boards.

Actually, we do get along here quite well as compared to other boards. I am a member of one board where I rarely post because of the "get some dive time before you even think about posting here" attitude prevalent there. Many of the members on that board don't seem to even want to talk to you unless you are cave trained. Then another board that I am on is just the opposite, my diving is beyond "recreational limits" and most of the divers in my portion of it aren't interested in posts that refer to more extreme diving as they will never do it.

You just see a few flare-ups here as we are all human beings with our own views. That will happen anywhere. You should have seen the "busting of chops" between the surface Navy and submarine Navy if you think that things get back here, LOL!

Good point on both the board observations, and the Navy. As a brownshoe (Naval Air), I watched the childish rivalry between the blackshoes (surface) and sewer-pipe sailors (submariners) as an interesting amusement. They had their uses in the plan, but at the end of the day, the majority of the steel exporting business came our way, so I was happy.

I avoid most of the other diving boards because they seem to be infected with a human virus the psychologists are calling "disinhibition" - the anonymity of electronic boards seems to encourage the less pleasant sides of our personalities to surface.

One advantage I believe we have here, is we have common interests beyond the mechanics of diving, into the realm of social life - be it organizing trips, or discussing relationship issues. We also have face-to-face time at Happy Hours, clinics, local diving and trips. Once you have established a human vs electronic persona, I think it smooths the edges somewhat.

What I see is most topics are nicely handled, and everyone is courteous and good-natured. I heard on my last trip that some of the new divers are reluctant to post "newbie" kind of questions, so I'm thinking about creating an area dedicated to entry-level questions. I have discussed this with some of the members in the past, so this thread is providing an incentive to pursue that further. Any thoughts?

[jextract]

I am a member of one board where I rarely post because of the "get some dive time before you even think about posting here" attitude prevalent there. Many of the members on that board don't seem to even want to talk to you unless you are cave trained.

Gee, that wouldn't happen to be The D____S____, would it?

[Diverbrian]

I am a member of one board where I rarely post because of the "get some dive time before you even think about posting here" attitude prevalent there. Many of the members on that board don't seem to even want to talk to you unless you are cave trained.

Gee, that wouldn't happen to be The D____S____, would it?

Doesn't matter which board. I am not trying to slam anyone. I am saying that different diving related boards have different styles. That particular board does have its own ambience as do some of the others.