19 replies to this topic

[ScubaDadMiami]

Have you ever seen those divers that can hover effortlessly, and make skills and drills look like they were the inventors? Great, but that doesn't mean that they have acquired the experience, or possess the thought processes of "mature," experienced and seasoned "technical" divers nor does it mean that these divers should be engaging in these kinds of dives.

I am guessing that this is not news to many of you. However, I was a little shocked at my recent exeperience on a dive trip that was booked as a "technical" trip.

Every diver looked the part. Those that weren't on CCRs were using double open circuit tanks with stages and the whole kit. (By the way, none of the divers I am about to describe was a CCR diver.) They sure looked pretty, and they all taked the talk before making the dive. Once we were underwater, they sure didn't look very pretty.

To set the scene: we are finishing up a dive in strong current. The plan is to ascend along the line (plus all of the other contigencies such as shooting a bag if getting blown off, etc.). I make it back to the line to begin my ascent at the end of the dive. That is where the fun begins.

The current is moving briskly. There are a number of divers above on the line (that I can't yet see). I start ascending. However, I notice that I am moving along the line but not really moving shallower. I get to about 100 feet, and then I notice that I am just moving sideways as the current pushes me along the line.

Ahead of me I see a diver sitting on the line, actually straddling it like on horse back. Hmmm. Could he be at a deco stop? "Oh, well," I think to myself, and I continue my ascent.

About 20 feet past this guy, I come up on a large group of divers, perhaps as many as eight people, all stopped in the same location. I start to make my way through the group (my first stop is at 80), when I see that they are actually holding onto the bitter end of the line and the float ball. Now I realize that the current is moving so fast that the ball has been pulled under, and I am shocked to see that everyone is just sitting there without a clue as to what to do next, draining their gas and racking up more potential deco obligation.

I signal them to shoot their bags. No reaction. Well, I have to correct that. One guy pulled out a Jon Line, and he was attaching it to the ball. Yeah, that was going to make the difference!

Enough already! I wave good bye to the crowd, I drift off, and I shoot my bag, completing my deco without event. By the time I am picked up by the boat (some 30 minutes or so later), I see two people sucking down oxygen, and I am hearing stories of people blowing up to the surface from the float ball, missing significant decompression stops along the way (like 20 minutes worth!).

Fortunately, nobody took on a serious hit from this incident by the time we made it back to the dock several hours later. However, I am still scratching my head about people electing to engage in these types of activities when they are clearly not ready to do so.

Is this a put down to anyone? Not by any means. We all start out the same. Some move a little faster than others from the start. However, none of us should get into situations for which we are not prepared to the highest degree possible beforehand, and we should take a long, hard, honest look at ourselves to make sure we are confident in what we take along (skills and experience) with us before engaging in these kinds of activities.

Things don't always go according to plan. So, this is when a diver needs to remember that the main computer sits atop the shoulders, and it needs to be turned on. Rote memorization only gets the user but so far when things go wrong.

[annasea]

Things don't always go according to plan. So, this is when a diver needs to remember that the main computer sits atop the shoulders, and it needs to be turned on. Rote memorization only gets the user but so far when things go wrong.

Excellent points, Howard. A great reminder for all, I reckon.

[Diverbrian]

SDM, You are preaching to the choir on this one in my case. My skills are just good enough to get the job done. Where my instructor made sure that I earned my certs was my ability to improvise when things went south. He claims to this day that I am one of the best that he has trained and he admits that my skills are the least pretty of anyone that he has trained.

I didn't have any dive go perfectly in my training. There was always a glitch such as you talk about. I was always taught to THINK through them and that the "the book" doesn't have all of the answers. I have seen too many divers get overconfident with "pretty skills" that have needed assistance later because they were not trained to think on their fins as it were.

It sounds like you ran into another batch of them .

[6Gill]

Couple thoughts....
1-shouldn't this be in the lessons learned section
2-talk is cheap
3-doubles and a long hose no more make you a 'tech' diver than a Harley and a leather jacket make you an outlaw biker
4-getting the card and getting it are two different things
5-did anyone of these divers learn anything.

[drbill]

I don't consider myself a tech diver although I do occasionally undertake dives that would, by most definitions, be considered tech dives. Your description of events on this dive is a bit frightening. Did the operator assess skills at all, or just rely on c-cards?

I've learned after a few blue water deco stops that I need to carry a bag I can shoot in cases where I can't relocate the anchor line for my stop. I don't mind doing blue water deco stops without one, but NOT in cases involving a current like that!

[BubbleBoy]

Interesting story, and good of you to report it.

I think one of the biggest contributors to global diving safety, that often gets overlooked, is simply sharing details of real diving mistakes and errors with others. Not just the worldscale events (people getting eaten by sharks, Andria Doria deaths, etc.) but, the seemingly little errors that can mount up to something big too. We all learn from mistakes, but that doesn't mean we all have to commit every mistake to learn. I would rather let someone else make the mistake so that I can learn from it.

I think most divers are reluctant to talk about their own mistakes because they don't want the embarrassment. But, when you do share things that went wrong, you are really making a valuable contribution to diving safety and education. You might even be saving someones life down the road.

[Dennis]

Thanks for the report. It just goes to show that the most important piece of equipment we own is between our ears.

[captsteve]

Just out of curiosity..... The bouy was it? no hang lines and no boat attached? sounds like poor planning all around. Or, I dont understand just what was being done.
I am more of a boat captain than a diver. It is the "what ifs?" that are the most important

[ScubaDadMiami]

Just out of curiosity..... The bouy was it? no hang lines and no boat attached? sounds like poor planning all around. Or, I dont understand just what was being done.
I am more of a boat captain than a diver. It is the "what ifs?" that are the most important

Due to strong currents down here, one procedure is to tie off to the wreck using a line with a float ball on the top. There is another float at the end of about 20 feet of line, attached to the surface float, so that an entire group can fit on the line at the surface. The boat stays near but under power.

When divers come to the surface, if the current is too strong, they let go of the float, and drift while the boat motors over to them to pick them up. If the current is even stronger, divers will shoot bags, and the boat will follow the bags, pick up the divers, and then come back to the float ball to pick it up after picking up the last of the divers in the water. Third, as an alternative, the last team out of the water will unhook the anchor so that everyone can just float along with the surface marker while coming up the line. These styles are quite typical here, and I would not blame what happened on the boat.

On the second dive, the boat added a second float.

[PerroneFord]

But, when you do share things that went wrong, you are really making a valuable contribution to diving safety and education. You might even be saving someones life down the road.

You know, I used to feel this way. But the more I go on, the more I wonder. So few people listen, and so many more use it as an opportunity to simply point fingers. I still remember the reluctance in my cave course by the other students to come to grips with the errors made. I spilled my guts after every dive trying to help myself as much as them, and their comments were very self-protective.

Amongst non-cavers that I talk to, accident or close call analysis is rarely done with anything but a "look what this fool did" kind of view. Sometimes I think it's nearly worthless to share incidents.

[C-Food]

But, when you do share things that went wrong, you are really making a valuable contribution to diving safety and education. You might even be saving someones life down the road.

You know, I used to feel this way. But the more I go on, the more I wonder. So few people listen, and so many more use it as an opportunity to simply point fingers. I still remember the reluctance in my cave course by the other students to come to grips with the errors made. I spilled my guts after every dive trying to help myself as much as them, and their comments were very self-protective.

Amongst non-cavers that I talk to, accident or close call analysis is rarely done with anything but a "look what this fool did" kind of view. Sometimes I think it's nearly worthless to share incidents.

I think you need to keep preaching! Maybe only a few people listen, but at least somebody gained knowledge from your experiences - and that's priceless.

[Diverbrian]

Just out of curiosity..... The bouy was it? no hang lines and no boat attached? sounds like poor planning all around. Or, I dont understand just what was being done.
I am more of a boat captain than a diver. It is the "what ifs?" that are the most important

Due to strong currents down here, one procedure is to tie off to the wreck using a line with a float ball on the top. There is another float at the end of about 20 feet of line, attached to the surface float, so that an entire group can fit on the line at the surface. The boat stays near but under power.

When divers come to the surface, if the current is too strong, they let go of the float, and drift while the boat motors over to them to pick them up. If the current is even stronger, divers will shoot bags, and the boat will follow the bags, pick up the divers, and then come back to the float ball to pick it up after picking up the last of the divers in the water. Third, as an alternative, the last team out of the water will unhook the anchor so that everyone can just float along with the surface marker while coming up the line. These styles are quite typical here, and I would not blame what happened on the boat.

On the second dive, the boat added a second float.

A couple of scenarios that I have been involved with that would have (if I had done the actual dive instead of getting into the water) or did cause me to have to shoot a bag. This is rare in the Lakes but it happens.

The first was searching for a wreck that I couldn't locate. There is no line at that point because I have gotten too far away from it in order to look for the wreck. We don't drop anchors into wooden schooners. We tie mooring buoys off to them. I have picked up the nickname "Lone Shipwreck Hunter" with one group that I dive with for that reason. Typically, the dive boat runs over the wreck and hot drops me in. Then, I go down and shoot a lift bag to mark the wreck after I find it. The next group brings down the mooring line along my lift bag line : ) . This was the only wreck that I haven't found with this method. I wound up having to pop a bag and wait for the boat in Lake Ontario on that one.

The second was a briefed possibility. Conditions were rough that day. The mooring line physically broke. We had discussed on the boat that if it happened, simply shoot a bag and wait for the boat. As it was, it happened just prior to us submerging. So the boat captain pulled us back on board and we simply selected another wreck.

Oh, and Perrone, I am as guilty of being initially defensive on my screw-ups as the next guy. Notice that I say initially. I go into analytical mode relatively quickly after the initial defensiveness and come up with some pretty clean analysis. What you may have to think about is this criticism that I used to take from my friends and teachers in school.

The other students don't wish to hear you kicking yourself over minor issues when you still did way better than they did in their view. That can be seen as arrogant by others, because it appears to them that you are EXPECTING yourself to be perfect and nobody can be perfect. Many times it can be in how you say something and not just what you say. Keep trying if that is what you want to do. But, I have never had an issue passing the lessons learned from my dives. It is simply in the PERCEIVED spirit of how I say things.

[netmage]

I have a strong suspicion who the instructor was, and who a number of the folks your referring to; as I have witnessed the same practices.

Given who YOUR CCR instructor was and witnessed the 'abilities' of the students this instructor is churning out - why is he still an instructor...?

[Diverbrian]

I don't consider myself a tech diver although I do occasionally undertake dives that would, by most definitions, be considered tech dives. Your description of events on this dive is a bit frightening. Did the operator assess skills at all, or just rely on c-cards?

I've learned after a few blue water deco stops that I need to carry a bag I can shoot in cases where I can't relocate the anchor line for my stop. I don't mind doing blue water deco stops without one, but NOT in cases involving a current like that!

I would ask where he would assess skills. This is a problem in this type of diving. I know of more than one diver who can nail buoyancy perfectly in a quarry and talk the deco theory like a PhD. These same divers have kits that look like they came out of the DIR manual (even if all they did was order and read the book... I AM NOT slamming DIR by saying this). These are all things that a captain/divemaster can see. They can see that maybe these divers have dove certain wrecks by their logbooks if need be, but their logbooks won't say how "successful" those dives were.

These divers aren't going to scare a captain or divemaster UNTIL they see them in the water and realize that their actual experience is more limited than they thought and that they have a problem on their hands. This is a particular issue with divers who practice at the quarry nearly all of the time and don't seem to want to risk diving open water but occassionally. They are always "working on their skills". At some point the rubber has to hit the road and the experience that is required is experience in the actual diving that you intend to do in an environment were your skills won't look nearly as "pretty" as they will in the quarry. My skills have gotten better with time. But, they still aren't perfect. I consider that good as it helps to remind me that their are far better divers than me out there and that I am not bulletproof.

To be honest, there is one dive captain that I use who is anal about checking cards and logbooks with a few exceptions. I am one of them. If I am leading a trip, he just has me verbally vouch for them and that is good enough for him. Typically, I am the worst diver that I bring, LOL.

[Cephalopod]

I have a strong suspicion who the instructor was, and who a number of the folks your referring to; as I have witnessed the same practices.

Given who YOUR CCR instructor was and witnessed the 'abilities' of the students this instructor is churning out - why is he still an instructor...?

Since Instructor certification is a lifetime card, with no verification of continuing education, or re-testing of specific instructor knowledge by the certifying agency, an instructor can churn out as many pupils as his wallet can stand.

In another post, I said that every type of instructor certification should have an expiration date, with mandatory re-certification, especially when any type of high risk dive instruction is being provided.

Granted, that would upset a lot of instructors. So what!...this isn't driver's education we are teaching! If we don't provide a quality education to our students, there are going to be mistakes, accidents, and fatalities.

There are instructors out there teaching way over their heads. Some have neither the temperment, knowledge, experience, or understanding, to safely DO what they teach, much less try to pass that "knowledge" on to others. I've seen them, and likely you have too.

Anyone can report concerns regarding an instructor's abilities, to a certifying agency, and a Course Director, or other agency official, can investigate the matter, otherwise no news is good news.

There are no "Scuba Police" out there to enforce the rules, procedures and regulations of the certifying agency. We are a self-policing community.

If we don't empty our own garbage, the garbage stays, and ultimately the stink rubs off on everyone of us.

"Ceph"