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dont pet the alligators


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#1 Surelyshirly

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 08:27 PM

I have asked this question on another board and they had a great deal of fun with it, so please feel free.

But in with all that fun can you also tell me about diving and gators in FLA I really am interested.

Are there alligators at the springs where people dive or the Crystal River? I have to assume there are, so how do you dealwith that, I am not the fastest swimmer in the group, guaranteed.

And where other than the saltwater dives can you safely dive there? And where do others dive that i should stay away from?

I have already been told to rub a gators belly clockwise and from the outside, and Depending on the size of the gators present I should perhaps carry a "Gator Bell" to warn them of my presence and some pepper spray for defense. To figure out the size of the gators present though, I have to inspect their poop. Gators under 12 ft have poop that is small to a moderate in size with a normal smell. Gators larger than 12 ft have a much larger poop with tiny little bells and it smells like pepper spray.

so be original AND be informative

Edited by Surelyshirly, 13 November 2006 - 08:31 PM.


#2 ScubaDadMiami

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 10:11 PM

My cave instructor told me: "When the gators move in, you move out." I keep it simple and limit my risk by following this good advice.
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#3 Surelyshirly

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 10:55 PM

So basically anything that isnt saltwater is fair game for them?

And I thought my husband was teasing me

#4 Guest_Sea Urchin_*

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 12:19 AM

I saw a couple of alligators while driving around Florida. They are all over the place and you can even spot them off of the highway in those man-made lakes and ditches too. I didn't see any while diving though.

#5 ScubaHawk

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 03:35 AM

If you start to pet a big gator's belly from the outside, you'll end up petting it from the inside. Trust a coonass on this. They are faster then they look . . .
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#6 Dennis

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 07:16 AM

Shirly,

In Florida, if you are swimming in fresh water, there will be alligators somewhere. Generally, when people move in, alligators move out. The exceptions are where people have fed the gators. A stupid and illegal activity, but it happens nontheless. Usually the springs are too cold for alligators and they go to warmer water, but you cannot count on it. So, as Scubadad said, if the alligators move in, you move out. Don't worry about the alligators too much, they are fairly safe, it's the ones on two legs you have to worry about. :cool2:
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#7 jextract

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 11:15 AM

So does it make sense for you freshwater divers to carry powerheads?
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#8 Walter

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 01:12 PM

Not really. Gators are generally lazy. They usually come in slowly and are easy to push away with a broom handle. That should give you plenty of time to exit the water. It's also very rare to actually see gators on a dive. I've never had a problem with gators. My friend, Ana, had two close calls when she worked for the DOT inspecting bridges, both of those incidents involved diving in the Everglades - comething most of us just wouldn't do. I know a golf ball diver who has called to have gators removed, but he's never been threatened. His policy is not to get into the water if the gator is 6 ft or longer.
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#9 Surelyshirly

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 05:28 PM

They usually come in slowly and are easy to push away with a broom handle. That should give you plenty of time to exit the water.


So you dive in fresh water wth a broom handle?

And I think 6ft is too long an alligator to be in the water with dont you?

#10 nurseshark

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 09:46 PM

I grew up in Florida. Even though I never "officially" dove with gators I can assure you anytime I swam, or water skiied in fresh water it was always with gators around. In Florida they are in any body of freshwater you see, from the smallest puddle to biggest lake. They dont particularly like you or want to be your friend. The only time you might really aggravate one is if you happen upon their nest, then you can have trouble. Their favorite foods are fish,birds, deer and the neighborhood dog that happens to wander into their area. They love dogs, they are tasty treats for them....

I would never touch one or rub its belly..remember captain hook???? :diver:

Karen

#11 Walter

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:10 PM

They usually come in slowly and are easy to push away with a broom handle. That should give you plenty of time to exit the water.


So you dive in fresh water wth a broom handle?

And I think 6ft is too long an alligator to be in the water with dont you?


Anything over 3 feet and I get out of the water. Only when I think they might be in the area. I use a shark billy instead of a broom handle, it fits in the gear bag better.
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#12 Walter

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:12 PM

I would never touch one or rub its belly..remember captain hook???? :diver:

Karen


Yeah, but that wasn't a gator.
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#13 Surelyshirly

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:18 PM

Diving in Florida will be interesting.

I think my husband just upped my life insurance.

#14 Cephalopod

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 11:05 PM

They usually come in slowly and are easy to push away with a broom handle. That should give you plenty of time to exit the water.


So you dive in fresh water wth a broom handle?

And I think 6ft is too long an alligator to be in the water with dont you?



Hi Kiddo!

Many years ago, when I was doing some post graduate work at Duke, I undertook a research project, and wrote a lengthy paper on the American alligator, and American Estuarine crocodilians.

Briefly put, these creatures have a brain the size of a walnut, and will eat anything that walks, swims, crawls, or can fly. They aren't smart...just hard-wired to survive with exceptional instinctual skills.

In their current physical shape, they appeared over 100 million years ago, and being related to dinosaurs, are more closely related to today's birds than any other animal. They just didn't jump the evolutionary gap from reptile to bird, as their splendid adaptation to fresh and saltwater habitats was very successful for them as a species.

An alligator is estimated to live up to 100 years of age, and grow to well over ten feet in length. The saltwater crocodile, however, can reach 20 feet or more, but that's another story altogether, and reserved for divers who frequent their saltwater environment. Anyway, a 220 lb American alligator, approximately 11 foot long, can exert a bite force of just under 2200 lbs, equal to the force required to lift a small truck. Their bite force is proportional to size. So you can relax, as most alligators are not 11 feet long. Seven to nine feet is not unusual, so you would only have to worry about a bite force of approximately 1500 pounds.

These creatures are hard-wired to do two things; eat and reproduce. The female is an exceptionally protective parent. Their habitat ranges as far north as, if memory serves, Virginia, in the vicinity of the Great Dismal Swamp, down the East coast states, extending Westward to the Texas/Mexico border. Then they become Mexican alligators and Estuarine crocs. The American Estuarine crocodilians, as are all crocs, are much more aggressive and dangerous than alligators. Notable, in the Northern climates, was the identification of an "icing response", wherein an alligator would lie in a pool of shallow water, with just its nostrils extending above the surface, and actually freeze in place for short periods of time, and reactivate when the Spring thaw came about. I cannot recall my exact source on that particular piece of data, other than it was noted in a Phd candidate's thesis which I found at a local state University. Remember this was before the internet. Information of this caliber, and detail, was not published for the general public, and had to be manually located through various academic sources, or generated through personal research.

Alligators seem to identify prey in terms of size. Very generally speaking, a baby alligator will eat insects, minnows and other small water creatures. A two or three foot alligator might attack a small dog or similar mammal, but probably would not deliberately attack an adult human, unless provoked. A big gator of six to nine feet or so, however, is a far different story. They are best viewed from a goodly distance. If they are in the water, you get out of the water. Same common sense you would use with bull sharks at a dive site. You avoid large, unpredictable and potentially dangerous creatures. In the water, be it fresh or salt, we are NOT always at the top of the food chain!!!

That being said, all the former advice given applies, except your own. Don't touch, approach, or provoke an alligator with anything. They all have bacteria laden teeth, and even a small one can inflict a very dangerous bite, via a fulminating bacterial infection. (You don't want one!)

An alligator can indeed be temporarily induced to a stuperous, or tonic state, if placed on it's back, on land, and their stomach area gently rubbed. The same is true of sharks in the water, except they don't need to be rubbed, just inverted for a short period. No one knows why, and I don't think anyone cares...it's what scientists generally refer to as "An unwise action..." for you to attempt either feat.

'Gators aren't especially interested in humans as prey items. That's just the way they are programmed (think of that walnut sized brain) to react in the presence of anything they think they are big enough to eat.

I used to canoe the rivers in Florida, and it was not unusual for a large gator to come up and nudge the boat. It never took much more than a tap on the head to scare them away.

They are cold blooded, and therefore sluggish when the temperature drops below the 70's. However, if the temperature is higher, say in the 80's to 90's, they can outrun a human being for very short distances. But, as a rule, they don't go out running down people in the streets. For mammalian prey, they tend to be water's edge, ambush predators. Probably most negative human encounters with these creatures are people unwittingly getting too close to the edge of their waterway habitat. Or, perhaps, a smallish, splashing, surface swimmer in the habitat of a very large speciman.

The moral of this story...American alligator habitats are fairly well known in Florida, and in all Southern coastal states. Dive at known, and popular, dive sites. Don't go wandering off on your own. Unless you get stupid, you should be able to dive most of the freshwater dive environments of Florida safely, as do hundreds of thousands of visiting divers every year. Just stay alert to your dive environment, which is sound advice all the time.

You are in much more danger from the half-blind, hare-brained, blue-hairs, and snowbirds, on cell phones, or shoving a cheeseburger down their pie-holes, while careening off other cars, than you are from a simple-minded alligator trying to mind his/her own business, and eat an occasional rat or poodle.

Put the threat in perspective, and try to relax and have some fun!

The above statement is intended for entertainment purposes only. It does not guarantee the safety or lives of any divers in the presence of any sized alligators, or crocodiles, as these creatures do not consult with me prior to undertaking their daily feeding activities.

Cephalopod :diver:
PS: And you guys thought all I could do was post jokes....(snicker!)

Edited by Cephalopod, 15 November 2006 - 12:21 PM.

"The most dangerous creature you will encounter in any ocean, and the only one truly worth worrying about, is yourself!" H. E. Potter, General Public Nuisance, circa 2005

#15 Surelyshirly

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 11:16 PM

That was excellent. Thank you




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