40 replies to this topic

[Basslet]

This discussion arose in the Galapagos 2008 trip thread and was split off to allow for better discussion.
- Staff

As far as prcing goes this boat is actually on the high side.

And the SD price seems to be $200 more than Explorer Ventures published price for the same time.

Thats not true Kamala had the price as $3695 which is the correct price for 2008. It's $3395 this year. However if you check either Peter Hughes or Aggressor they charge less for pretty much the same trip. This is a brand new boat and I'm sure cost a pretty penny. Very nice though.


Plus I'd be willing to bet that both Peter Hughes and Aggressor are already booked during the whaleshark season of 2008.

You're right. I must have misread it. But I am going on the Aggressor in June 2008. It is a group trip, and as such, the price is cheaper. The discount is passed on to those who booked. I truly think, and this has been discussed privately time and time again and is one of the biggest complaints I have heard about SD trips...when booking as a group, prices are generally discounted. Also, there is usually a free trip given. This discount is not passed on to the members. You pay the same price as if you are booking individually. Not only that, you are responsible for arranging your own air. Other than having a set group to go with (which can also be done through your LDS) I don't see the advantage of booking trips through SD. Sorry to ruffle any feathers, but that is why I don't go on many SD trips. I can usually find better prices with other groups, or on my own. The exception is the Australia trip, which also includes a special itinerary.

[chinacat46]

Fairybasslet, you won't get much arguement from me. If you go with a scuba club they usually pass down the discounts and everybody shares. SD is not a club its a business. I to go on very few SD trips for this and other reasons. When I go with my LDS they don't discount the trip though and they use the "free" berth for their trip leader which in the case of SD is usually Kamala. So it pretty much balances out. If you go on trips by yourself and look for deals or can be very flexible and get last minute deals you can usually save money.

[Basslet]

Fairybasslet, you won't get much arguement from me. If you go with a scuba club they usually pass down the discounts and everybody shares. SD is not a club its a business. I to go on very few SD trips for this and other reasons. When I go with my LDS they don't discount the trip though and they use the "free" berth for their trip leader which in the case of SD is usually Kamala. So it pretty much balances out. If you go on trips by yourself and look for deals or can be very flexible and get last minute deals you can usually save money.

You can't have it both ways. Either you're a business or a club. You can't act like a club but charge like a business. JMHO YMMV

[chinacat46]

Fairybasslet, you won't get much arguement from me. If you go with a scuba club they usually pass down the discounts and everybody shares. SD is not a club its a business. I to go on very few SD trips for this and other reasons. When I go with my LDS they don't discount the trip though and they use the "free" berth for their trip leader which in the case of SD is usually Kamala. So it pretty much balances out. If you go on trips by yourself and look for deals or can be very flexible and get last minute deals you can usually save money.

You can't have it both ways. Either you're a business or a club. You can't act like a club but charge like a business. JMHO YMMV

I'm not even a permier member so don't look at me. I call it a business not a club.

[shadragon]

Hi Fairybasslet,

I am in no way affiliated with SD or their staff so this is just my opinion. You probably can find better rates if you were to go looking for them. The difference is the group dynamic. If you want to organize a trip for yourself then you set your dates, search for the best prices and away you go. However, SD tries to get 12-16 people together simultaneously. Not only does that restrict time and dates to a large degree, but it complicates matters dramatically in trying to coordinate those schedules (Not to mention the dozen other trips they have on the go besides...). Being in the group lets you have a decent time with like minded folks rather than being by yourself. You show up and have 12 friends as dive buddies.

The SD board is quite small and the margins on trips razor thin. You probably won't see lower than advertised prices for some time, if ever. That takes HUGE buying volume and the dive community is just not that big. This board is only three years old and with only 3400+ people, it is not a lot.

What you do get when you book trips here are some very hard working individuals who treat you as a person instead of an account number. The SD staff deal with issues immediately, with a sense of professionalism and sense of humor that is not only rare, it is almost extinct. How many businesses can you call today that don't keep you waiting for 20 minutes with a robot "Press 1 for Customer Support..." greeting.

Sometimes you pay a bit more for the convenience and I find SD's prices very competitive (They would not get my money otherwise). Plus, you get $25 off each trip if you are a premier member (which sets their prices below advertised out of the gate). Plus, you get chances at draws and prizes. Plus, you have 3400'ish folks here who will be your dive buddy and you don't have to spend half the day getting to know them first. They have developed a community here (at additional expense) that you have full access too.

I think Kamala and Kim (and the rest of the team, of course) do a great job. They love what they do and that shows through. There are limited perks, but they earn them dealing with issues and other things behind the scenes so you don't have to. Often resolving things behind the scenes without your being bothered by it. If you have a Q you can ask and they run around for you looking for the answer. If you have a problem, they will find a solution. They have lists of numbers and an email contact list and know who to call to get answers.

I am always on the look-out for a bargain, but I have booked two trips through SD without pause.

SingleDivers Management and Staff...

[DandyDon]

An interesting question from the What difference does it make? dept...?

Yes, clubs will often share discounts/commissions. I sponsored a few trips like that myself - and I really earned the commissions I did not accept for all the work and grief I got. I did enjoy some free diving.

Shops usually get the free diving and the commissions, but they usually earn them. The trips leader is certainly not on vacation. MY LDS's owners do a private dive trip each year, too - paying their own, so they can enjoy a stress free trip without the income - even tho they make still get some freebies and write-offs. They also try to keep it all fun and sponsor a dive club, as it all works well together.

SD.com is more like the Shops approach - a business also offering an online club. Even if you wind up paying a little more here than you might on an LDS trip, that's to offset extra services.

I've been on the Shop trips, sponsored club trips, and been on a few SD trips - and altho I am cautious about details and prices here, I am generally satisfied.

I would agree that if the cost here was much more than on my own, I wouldn't do it and it is prudent to look things over closely, but I don't see a problem. Got two trips planned her this year and just waiting on details for the end of year trip.

Edited by DandyDon, 10 April 2007 - 12:34 PM.

[Latitude Adjustment]

The advantage of going with SingleDivers is you pretty much know everyone and who your buddy will probably be before you get there and usually the price is close enough that it doesn't make a difference if it's a club or business.

[Racer184]

Either you're a business or a club.

I do not know about New Jersey, but in Florida if you have a club, you had better incorporate immediately and get your liability insurance. I never join a club until I check the State of Florida Corporations website.

[weescot]

I have just joined and yet to take a trip with SD - but I will. When telling people about this site, I say it is like a commercial travel club for single and buddyless divers. If it wasn't run like a business with a business focus, SD presumably wouldn't get the deals. Personally, I am happy for more "plugged in" divers with time and connections to do the research and fixing. I am even more happy at the prospect of diving with people just like me, instead of being the "Billy no mates" on the dive boat, as I make polite conversation with other divers, usually in established groups.

As with everything in life, time has a value and I would not expect anyone to give up their time without some form of trade off - pay or perks. I suspect the alternative is that SD members pay for this service, as you would a dive operator or agent.

[ASDmike]

How to: FAQs
How to: Use the site
Important Stuff you need to know..., about all SingleDivers.com trips!

Its all there

Having been on alot of group trips put together by many different types of operating entities, I would say that Single Divers.Com LLC is a really a non-profit organization.

Now if we haven't ticked off all our in-house attorneys, maybe we can lobby for 501c(3) status. We should really be working for a cure and the betterment of victims simultaneously inflicted with debilitant buddy bonds and terminal rapture of the deep.

[Hipshot]

You can't have it both ways. Either you're a business or a club. You can't act like a club but charge like a business. JMHO YMMV

Ellen, I see your point. At the same time, SD.com also had a dive in Rhode Island that was a freebie, and all of the Happy Hours are free. I believe that it's a club, since a lot of the activities do not involve profit-making activities (like this board, for example). If I had to classify SD.com as one or the other, I'd tend to call it a club, but one that is run somewhat like a business.

Also, a lot of dive shops have clubs, and they book club trips, much like SD.com does. Is the dive shop's club not a club?

Rick

[nurseshark]

I have to just add something here.

Single Divers is both a club and a business but is is much more to me. Compared to the prices of my LDS they are the same and many times better. Also I have never had a LDS be so willing to accomodate everyone on the same trip with so many eclectic itineraries. If you look at most of the trips almost eveyone has individual needs and requests that Kamala and Kim and others on the board work hard to accomodate. Your LDS sets a price for a group trip for travel within their local area, SD has become global in trying to bring together other divers from all over the country for great trips.I have also noticed that there are trips offered in a variety of price ranges so many people have the opportunity to join in the group.

Before joining in this group I found myself at the mercy of my LDS, often never having a "dive buddy" and many times have been the only single diver in the group.This lead to uncomfortable situations, and trips not very enjoyable

And finally, I have also found great friends and support though this group which in itself is priceless.

Of course Kamala has to make some sort of profit and of course you LDS does also. Like anything else , it cant be done for free, it is alot of work.

[ScubaHawk]

Sure it can be both a club and a business. The web forum is a club complete with members, get together and happy hours. The dive portion is a business.

[DandyDon]

Sure it can be both a club and a business. The web forum is a club complete with members, get together and happy hours. The dive portion is a business.

Very well said...!

[dustbowl diver]

This isn't the first time this question has come up:

I would interject that SD is and does operate as both a club and a business. I have been on two trips thus far (could/should have been more) and am going to Grenada in June. If you think of the diversity of the people of this site as well as their respective locations, it takes alot of planning and coordination once a trip is planned to get everybody congregated together-case in point the Flower Gardens trip I did 2 years ago had folks from Florida, Minnesota, Indiana, North Carolina, New Mexico, etc on it. Without the volunteer help of members in Houston getting people picked up at the airports and shuttled to Freeport, you can only imagine the chaos-clearly a local dive shop doesn't have to deal with this at all. These days, we are all savvy enough to "shop" for deals and sometimes you'll find a great deal here and sometimes you won't for what and where you are looking to go. As had been said, once you do commit and pay for a trip, you can see immediately who will be joining you. If your LDS doesn't have a club for introductions, it could be pot luck and it obviuosly will be if going it alone!

Just my 2 PSI!!

DBD

Edited by dustbowl diver, 11 April 2007 - 06:06 AM.