10 replies to this topic

[Scubatooth]

Well it seems like traveling with technology is going to get even harder now that the FAA (hence the TSA) have issued new rules on Lithium ion batteries in checked and carry on luggauge.


Links
http://safetravel.do..._batteries.html - this is most helpful you might want to keep a copy of this with your stuff going through security;)

From the TSA Website - http://www.tsa.gov/t.../batteries.shtm

Travel Alert Starting January 1, 2008
Spare Lithium Batteries No Longer Allowed in Checked Baggage.

Effective January 1, 2008, spare lithium batteries - extra batteries not installed on devices - will no longer be allowed in checked baggage. Spare lithium batteries may be packed in carry-on baggage and lithium batteries installed in a device may be packed in either checked or carry-on, as long as the battery is installed in the device.

You can learn more at http://Safetravel.dot.gov

and

"Lithium Batteries: Safety and Security"

Lithium-ion batteries, often found in laptop computers, differ from primary lithium batteries, which are often used in cameras. Some newer AA-size batteries are also primary lithium.

While there is no explosion hazard associated with either kind of battery, the Federal Aviation Administration has studied fire hazards associated with both primary and lithium-ion cells, and their extensive research is publicly available. As a result of this research, the FAA no longer allows large, palletized shipments of these batteries to be transported as cargo on passenger aircraft.

The research also shows that an explosion will not result from shorting or damaging either lithium-ion or primary lithium batteries. Both are, however, extremely flammable. Primary lithium batteries cannot be extinguished with firefighting agents normally carried on aircraft, whereas lithium-ion batteries are easily extinguished by most common extinguishing agents, including those carried on board commercial aircraft.

TSA has and will continue to work closely with the FAA on potential aviation safety and security issues, and TSA security officers are thoroughly and continually trained to find explosive threats. TSA does not have plans to change security regulations for electronic devices powered by lithium batteries."


and, courtesy of Joe Brancatelli, the DOT statement:

THE DOT STATEMENT:
Passengers will no longer be able to pack loose lithium batteries in checked luggage beginning January 1, 2008 once new federal safety rules take effect. The new regulation, designed to reduce the risk of lithium battery fires, will continue to allow lithium batteries in checked baggage if they are installed in electronic devices, or in carry-on baggage if stored in plastic bags.

Common consumer electronics such as travel cameras, cell phones, and most laptop computers are still allowed in carry-on and checked luggage. However, the rule limits individuals to bringing only two extended-life spare rechargeable lithium batteries, such as laptop and professional audio/video/camera equipment lithium batteries in carry-on baggage.

“Doing something as simple as keeping a spare battery in its original retail packaging or a plastic zip-lock bag w ill prevent unintentional short-circuiting and fires,” said Krista Edwards, Deputy Administrator of the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.

Lithium batteries are considered hazardous materials because they can overheat and ignite in certain conditions. Safety testing conducted by the FAA found that current aircraft cargo fire suppression system would not be capable of suppressing a fire if a shipment of non-rechargeable lithium batteries were ignited in flight.

“This rule protects the passenger,” said Lynne Osmus, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) assistant administrator for security and hazardous materials. “It’s one more step for safety. It’s the right thing to do and the right time to do it.”

In addition to the new rule, PHMSA is working with the FAA, the National Transportation Safety Board, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, the battery and airline industries, airline employee organizations, testing laboratories, and the emergency response communities to increase public awareness about battery-related risks and developments. These useful safety tips are highlighted at the public website: http://safetravel.dot.gov.

Im going to withhold my tongue on this subject as the wench would deep six me and have the evidence buried if i told my opinion here (IE a TOS violations x 100 atleast) see FT.

Tooth

[Racer184]

They should have done this 15 years ago.

[Scubatooth]

Please explain as now alot of devices use lithium - ion (rechargable kind) Ie cameras, laptops, CPAP breathing machines etc and this is going to cause problems for lots of people.

lithium primary is a seperate issue as there one and done like alkaline batteries.

[pir8]

Are rechargeable AAs and such included in this ?

[Scubatooth]

Bob

as far as i can tell AA batteries are fine as long as they have materials other then Lithium Ion , so NIMH, NICD, and others should be fine, but how TSA inturpits is yet to be seen but they will probably lump them all together as dangerous as bottled water. if you know what i mean.

Dan

[Racer184]

I have never read anything about carbon-zinc or 'alkaline' cells becoming self-combustible. (Not a chemist, so I certainly do not know.) I have never seen a warning to not burn them. Just about every other kind of battery will have a warning on it to dispose of it 'correctly'.

You might ask "if lithium batteries are dangerous why allow them at all?" Well, when such a battery ignites in your car, you will likely have time to slow down, get off the road and get out of the car. However, once a battery ignites in the cargo hold of an airplane there is no way to extinquish it. You will likely not have time to land the plane and get everyone off once the fire is detected.

So why not ban these batteries from carry-on ? Maybe they figure they would have time to go through the overhead compartments and find out what baggage has to be tossed out the cabin door.

Lithium is a metal. You cannot put metal fires out with traditional fire extinguishers and you should never use halon on a lithium fire. Remember the old tv shows in which deep sea divers would light a flare and it burned under water ? (What were those, magnesium? I have never seen one.)

FAA report http://www.fire.tc.f...ry_04112006.pdf

A report from an investigation in a battery incident by the National Transportation Safety Board
http://www.ntsb.gov/...005/HZB0501.pdf

Centers for Disease Control National Institude for Occupational Safety and Health has an easy-to-read report about a firefighter being injured....
Batteries in Automatic External Defribulators explode..
http://www.cdc.gov/n...s/face9939.html

U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission recall for Acer laptop batteries because of fires
http://www.cpsc.gov/...ml07/07167.html

FAA denies Boeings request to use "in-flight entertainment" system with rechargeable lithium cells
http://www.airweb.fa...A8?OpenDocument
go down to the section on "background"....
On February 15, 2006, Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle, Washington, applied for an amended type certificate to install a new Panasonic eX2 in-flight entertainment (IFE) system in a Boeing 777- 300ER airplane. The Boeing Model 777-300ER airplane is a large twin engine airplane with a maximum passenger capacity of 550. ......

An accident at Los Alamos National Laboratory in which
"... rechargable batteries that became spontaneously combustible ..."
http://www.lanl.gov/...18/text06.shtml


some videos


lithium burns when in contact with water http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxhW7TtXIAM

U.S. Department of Homeland Security highlights this incident.....
http://www.dhs.gov/x..._2007-11-30.pdf
November 29, IDG News Service – (International) Cell phone battery explodes in the night. A New Zealand man was woken in the middle of the night when his cell phone battery exploded and burst into flames, the second exploding battery incident reported this week. The phone had been charging while he was asleep. The phone was made by Nokia, which asked the man to turn over the battery and charger so it can investigate. In August, Nokia issued an advisory about faulty batteries in some of its phones. It said 46 million Nokia-branded BL-5C batteries were vulnerable to a short circuit that could cause them to overheat while recharging, and offered to replace them for customers who are concerned. Also, on Wednesday, police in South Korea said a worker may have died because his cell phone battery exploded in his pocket, the Associated Press reported. The man was found dead at his workplace in a quarry with a melted cell phone battery in his shirt pocket, according to the report. Source: http://www.pcworld.c...es/article.html


a few incidents reported to U.S. Department of Transportation....
The April 1999 LAX incident was not an isolated event; numerous
incidents involving lithium batteries have been reported in the
intervening years, most in the period since we initiated these
rulemaking proceedings. Fortunately, none of the aviation-related
incidents has resulted in death or serious injury; most of the
incidents occurred either before or after flight. Some of these
additional incidents are described below:
On November 3, 2000, in Portland, Oregon, a small primary
lithium battery short-circuited, causing a small fire and rupture of
the battery. The primary lithium battery burned through its inner
packaging and charred an adjacent package. The short-circuited battery
had long flexible protruding positive and negative terminals.
On April 12, 2002, small primary lithium batteries
packaged in a fiberboard box ignited during handling in Indianapolis,
Indiana.
On August 9, 2002, a small secondary lithium battery in an
electronic handheld device short-circuited, causing surrounding packing
materials (bubble wrap) to catch fire.
On August 7, 2004, large prototype secondary lithium
batteries shipped under a competent authority approval from California
to Europe apparently started a fire in a unit load device (ULD) during
loading for a transatlantic flight (Memphis-Paris). The ULD and many
other packages in it were damaged or destroyed by fire.
On February 11, 2005, an undeclared package containing 18
small primary lithium batteries caught fire during unloading in White
Bear Lake, Minnesota. Cargo handlers reported hearing a ``pop'' sound
and then seeing the box ``lifted'' off the conveyor belt by the force.
The package had been flown from Los Angeles to Minneapolis and was to
be trucked to Clear Lake, Wisconsin.
On or about June 29, 2005, the contents of a ULD caught
fire onboard a flight from Shanghai, China to the United States.
Airline ground personnel discovered evidence of the fire after the
plane landed safely in Ontario, California. A package containing a
secondary lithium battery pack was identified as the source of the
fire.
On March 3, 2006, a U.S.-bound package containing
secondary lithium batteries ignited in an outbound air transport
station in Shenzhen, China.
On July 17, 2006, a package with no marking or labeling
containing 122 secondary lithium batteries of various sizes caught fire
while being held in bond for customs clearance in Korea, after
transportation by air from Vienna, Austria.
On February 10, 2007, shortly after takeoff of a
commercial flight, a fire ignited in a passenger bag stowed in an
overhead bin. Although the fire is still under investigation,
preliminary reports indicate both small lithium ion and small primary
batteries were involved in the incident.
On March 1, 2007, a package sent by an eBay vendor via the
United States Postal Service, containing 24 primary lithium batteries,
caught fire at the Sydney Australia Mail Gateway Facility. The package
had been transported to Sydney from Los Angeles on a passenger
aircraft.

Edited by Racer184, 29 December 2007 - 02:47 PM.

[Scubatooth]

Boeing was denied that cert because the rules where written back in 1965 before alot of these technologies came about. that IFE system from panisonic is in use currently by several carriers including Singapore Airlines (on the A380 as well) after they changed how the battery back ups where done.

ok thats still less then a dozen cases(and some of those where with prototypes) out of thousands of flights a day, about the same odds as a airline crashing, but they are still allowed to fly.

also the fires and recalls where all due to manufacturing defects and problems which is along the lines of other batteries in the past as well for other electrical items, not including other recalls for other categories of items. again a fluke that is blown out of proportion.

the youtube videos are copycats that where intentional, im sure i could get the same end result if i intentionally tried to get something to explode or catch fire.

[Racer184]

Was catcing up on some other research today and ran across this from http://www.energizer...iumion_psds.pdf a typical notice.

In case of fire where lithium ion batteries are present, flood the area with water. If any batteries are burning, water may not extinguish them, but will cool the adjacent batteries and control the spread of fire. CO2, dry chemical, and foam extinguishers are preferred for small fires, but also may not extinguish burning lithium ion batteries. Burning batteries will burn themselves out. Virtually all fires involving lithium ion batteries can be controlled with water. When water is used, however, hydrogen gas may be evolved which can form an explosive mixture with air. LITH-X (powdered graphite) or copper powder fire extinguishers, sand, dry ground dolomite or soda ash may also be used. These materials act as smothering agents.
Fire fighters should wear self-contained breathing apparatus. Burning lithium ion batteries can produce toxic fumes including HF, oxides of carbon, aluminum, lithium, copper, and cobalt. Volatile phosphorus pentafluoride may form at a temperature above 230° F.

[Dive_Girl]

I travel with a number of various eletronic devices, lap tops cameras, etc. and have done so half way across the world. I have not found myself in need of a spare spare or spare spare spare, so the new restrictions effective as of January 1, 2008 do not appear that inhibitive to me.

The link provided above and again here: http://safetravel.do..._batteries.html, has some great information and additional links. It also give guidance regarding if you are not sure whether your battery is a larger lithium ion battery here: http://safetravel.do...arger_batt.html.

Being informed and ready for any potential questions or issues traditionally yields the best results when dealing with changes and restrictions.

Since I have been seeking information regarding cycling my NiMH battery, it was informative to run across the reminder that NiMH batteries contain no lithium and do not have any TSA travel restrictions. Regardless of this, according to TSA it's safest to travel with your light battery stored in the canister. This is how I travel with mine. I just unplug the battery connection while in transit as is recommended by the manufacturer anyway.

[Scubatooth]

According to other travel boards it appears that TSA is not enforcing this FAA rule and hasnt been a issue. There were some issues initially but it seems that TSA has dropped any enforcement, but carrying a copy of the FAA reg is a good idea.

The cycling of batteries is good to keep them in shape or to wake them up after a long sleep. heres a link to the article i posted about a year ago on my battery procedures. Its been a year since i posted it but its very good information.
http://www.singlediv...showtopic=12484