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bubble rings


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28 replies to this topic

#1 Capn Jack

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 06:31 AM

Too awesome. I've also seen a video with a Beluga making them at the people behind the glass.

These dolphins create a vortex in the water (either through surfacing or by churning it with their fins) and then exhale into it. They've been observed:

Creating rings that move horizontally, vertically, or which do not move;

Combining two or three rings.

Converting rings from horizontal to vertical movement;

Rotating the rings about any axis (you see one do that to one of these near the end here.)

They also seem to make a point of pointing either their head-mounted sound-amplifying oil wad or their blowhole at them.

Link to video of porpoises playing
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#2 BubbleBoy

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 08:04 AM

Incredible. Note how they seem to spin a small ring off of a larger one at the precise moment that the larger ring is about to dissipate.

The inventors of the hula hoop have been credited with genius status by toy manufacturers for decades. I think they've got some company in the marine world.

Edited by BubbleBoy, 22 January 2008 - 08:09 AM.

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#3 ScubaDrew

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 03:08 PM

Incredible. Note how they seem to spin a small ring off of a larger one at the precise moment that the larger ring is about to dissipate.

The inventors of the hula hoop have been credited with genius status by toy manufacturers for decades. I think they've got some company in the marine world.


That just seems to incredible to believe. Too CGI. I would have to see it with my own eyes I guess.

I mean those bubble rings should be trying to surface, there would need to be a current holding them down with the same force as their own bouyancy, and that current or vortex would have to be large enough to cover the entire ring, all moving at the exact same speed, or the ring would tear itself apart. And if you notice as soon as the dolphin touches the ring the bubbles go straight for the surface.

I don't know, it seems fishy to me.
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#4 Scubatooth

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 03:26 PM

I think the reason the rings are not trying to surface is that they are caught in the turbulance of the whale creating it as it causing it to move in such a way. IE the ring that rotated on three axis when the whale did a spin and turn about half way through.

just my .02 cents or one pence depending on how you look at things

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#5 Capn Jack

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 03:52 PM

That just seems to incredible to believe. Too CGI. I would have to see it with my own eyes I guess.

I mean those bubble rings should be trying to surface, there would need to be a current holding them down with the same force as their own bouyancy, and that current or vortex would have to be large enough to cover the entire ring, all moving at the exact same speed, or the ring would tear itself apart. And if you notice as soon as the dolphin touches the ring the bubbles go straight for the surface.

I don't know, it seems fishy to me.

Always a skeptic in every crowd.

Step One - go with the magic and enjoy the illusion

Step Two - I found this - it's from wikipedia, but it is annotated and it makes sense to me

http://en.wikipedia....an_intelligence

Complex play
Dolphins are known to engage in complex play behaviour, which includes such things as producing stable underwater toroidal air-core vortex rings or "bubble rings".(11) There are two main methods of bubble ring production: rapid puffing of a burst of air into the water and allowing it to rise to the surface, forming a ring; or swimming repeatedly in a circle and then stopping to inject air into the helical vortex currents thus formed. The dolphin will often then examine its creation visually and with sonar. They also appear to enjoy biting the vortex-rings they've created, so that they burst into many separate normal bubbles and then rise quickly to the surface. (12) Certain whales are also known to produce bubble rings, or even bubble-nets for the purpose of foraging.

Edited by Capn Jack, 22 January 2008 - 04:28 PM.

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#6 BubbleBoy

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 05:11 PM

Obviously dolphins are more adept at understanding the physics of their underwater world than most humans are. That's not a surprize really, considering they spend a lot more time in it than we do.

It does make me think they must be laughing their butts off at us when they see us floundering around down there in all our dive gear, trying to maneuver in it like they do. Kind of like watching a sumo wrestler tap dance or something.

Part of what makes this seem so impossible is what you don't see - how the dolphins form the vortex in the water in the first place. The bubbles they blow into the vortex are making the high speed churning motion of the water visible by getting entrained in it. It is possible they form some vortices with tail and flipper motion, or when they jump in and out of the water. It also looks to me like they are forming them with quick puffs of water out of their mouth, particularly when they spin a small ring off of a bigger one. This would happen in the same way that a human blows a smoke ring with a quick puff of air out of their mouth. It took me two years to master that dubious skill. I bet dolphins don't get lung cancer from bubble rings either.

Edited by BubbleBoy, 22 January 2008 - 09:43 PM.

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#7 secretsea18

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 07:34 PM

I don't care how they do it. I just love that they do this little trick. I can see no logical reason to make and "play" with these little bubble rings, except for entertainment. I like the idea that dolphins like to play!


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#8 Divegirl412

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 07:42 PM

Pretty amazing and very cool!!!

Thanks
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#9 dolphin lover

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 08:56 PM

That's awesome, just makes me love them that much more :D Thanks Mark!

#10 Latitude Adjustment

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 07:09 AM

I can blow horizontal bubble rings but when I saw pictures in a magazine years ago of dolphins making and playing with vertical rings I couldn't figure out how they did it. Now seeing the video of the vertical rings moving horizontally through the water well, it just blows my mind!
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#11 ScubaDrew

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 07:15 AM

I can blow horizontal bubble rings but when I saw pictures in a magazine years ago of dolphins making and playing with vertical rings I couldn't figure out how they did it. Now seeing the video of the vertical rings moving horizontally through the water well, it just blows my mind!


I get the ring formation ok, what I am having a hard time wrapping my head around is how they move them through the water in any direction without breaking them. Even more wierd is when they are sinking bubble rings, the substrate doesn't apear to be disturbed. That amount of water flow should move that sand or crushed coral around pretty good.
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#12 secretsea18

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 08:34 AM

I can blow horizontal bubble rings but when I saw pictures in a magazine years ago of dolphins making and playing with vertical rings I couldn't figure out how they did it. Now seeing the video of the vertical rings moving horizontally through the water well, it just blows my mind!


I get the ring formation ok, what I am having a hard time wrapping my head around is how they move them through the water in any direction without breaking them. Even more wierd is when they are sinking bubble rings, the substrate doesn't apear to be disturbed. That amount of water flow should move that sand or crushed coral around pretty good.



Magic. They do it with magic.

Don't forget they have sonar, AND can probably push water with their mouth.
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#13 fbp

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 09:02 AM

Can't get to the page, must have been overloaded... too many hits?

Click on the link and the error "404 - Page not displayed...." appears...

http://www.metacafe.com/w/1041454/
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#14 BubbleBoy

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 09:57 AM

I get the ring formation ok, what I am having a hard time wrapping my head around is how they move them through the water in any direction without breaking them. Even more wierd is when they are sinking bubble rings, the substrate doesn't apear to be disturbed. That amount of water flow should move that sand or crushed coral around pretty good.


I think the torroid vortex they create has highly concentrated motion. It has to be in order to entrain the bubbles and hold them in position. As you pointed out, there is a pretty powerful buoyant force that needs to be overcome in order for this to happen at all. Think of it like a tornado vs. a hurricane. The motion only affects things very near to it. It also allows the dolphins to move the vortex by just touching the edge of it without totally disrupting the motion. Try it in your bathtub when it's draining. Once the vortex develops, put your hand near it. The vortex will move and crawl along the edge of your hand.

If that doesn't work, then I guess we just have to learn to talk to dolphins so they can explain it to us.

Edited by BubbleBoy, 23 January 2008 - 05:59 PM.

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#15 ScubaDrew

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 11:15 AM

I can blow horizontal bubble rings but when I saw pictures in a magazine years ago of dolphins making and playing with vertical rings I couldn't figure out how they did it. Now seeing the video of the vertical rings moving horizontally through the water well, it just blows my mind!


I get the ring formation ok, what I am having a hard time wrapping my head around is how they move them through the water in any direction without breaking them. Even more wierd is when they are sinking bubble rings, the substrate doesn't apear to be disturbed. That amount of water flow should move that sand or crushed coral around pretty good.



Magic. They do it with magic.

Don't forget they have sonar, AND can probably push water with their mouth.


Aha! That explains it!
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Meet Pearl and Opal, the new shark rays in Adventure Aquarium.




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