39 replies to this topic

[uwfan]

Okay, I've read and reread the info on regulators in the ABC's of Regs... and I'm really close to buying the whole shebang... first and second stage, octo, and SPG (to go with a wrist mount Nitrox computer). I've visited several LDS's in my area... but I can't decide what a balanced reg will really do for me? I have been told they "breathe easier"... but at what depth or what conditions?

I'm a warm water wuss (jumping off the boat is MY kind of diving) and being land locked I don't see myself doing more than a couple tropical trips a year, but I'd like to take the plunge into buying my own...

What does a balanced first stage do/ not do for the performance of your reg/octo.
TIA

[shadragon]

In a first stage, the air pressure coming in from the tank on a balanced reg has no effect on the intermediate pressure (IP) delivered to the second stage. So whether your tank has 3000 PSI or 300 PSI it will breathe on the second stage in exactly the same way. Obviously if the tank pressure drops under the IP then you will start to have issues. Some people with old regs did not use SPG's. They used to wait until they had issues breathing before heading up. The balanced reg will supply air at the same rate until there is no more.

Typically reg manufacturers can use a larger orifice than what is possible in an unbalanced design. So higher air flow is possible, meaning the deeper you go you will have no issues drawing as much as you need. Obviously this gives you better performance. Oh and if you get a balanced first stage, get a balanced second stage too.

If you have two dives in a day lined up, use an unbalanced on the first dive and a balanced one on the second. You will see the difference.

I won't recommend any specific manufacturer as all balanced regs are pretty decent. Mine is a ScubaPro MK25/S600. It is su-weet...

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

What more needs to be said! Great explanation that a newbie can understand. Rather than repeating what Shadragon said quite well, I will give you my $.02: I got all my own gear after I got certified. My local LDS recommended a balanced reg, and as a newbie myself I tended to trust their judgement. And after 80 or so dives with this gear, I have never had any breathing difference or difficulty from first breath to last on a dive. Used mostly in 80+ degree WWW-type waters, but also used in 52 degree fresh water recently. No difference!

Take the plunge. Nothing like using your own gear for every dive. Really boosts your confidence level.

[Bubble2Bubble]

Take the plunge. Nothing like using your own gear for every dive. Really boosts your confidence level.

meaning the deeper you go you will have no issues drawing as much as you need. Obviously this gives you better performance. Oh and if you get a balanced first stage, get a balanced second stage too.

What She Said What He Said

Mike

[scubafanatic]

Okay, I've read and reread the info on regulators in the ABC's of Regs... and I'm really close to buying the whole shebang... first and second stage, octo, and SPG (to go with a wrist mount Nitrox computer). I've visited several LDS's in my area... but I can't decide what a balanced reg will really do for me? I have been told they "breathe easier"... but at what depth or what conditions?

I'm a warm water wuss (jumping off the boat is MY kind of diving) and being land locked I don't see myself doing more than a couple tropical trips a year, but I'd like to take the plunge into buying my own...

What does a balanced first stage do/ not do for the performance of your reg/octo.
TIA

...maybe we should approach this another way....... can you detail the budget you'd like to stay within ? ...also, what brands do you have available at your local dive shops ? There are some perfectly acceptable and decently performing 'economy' regs out there (unbalanced 1st-stages like Scubapro MK2 / Aqualung Calypso / Mares R2 ) which are the sort of regs you'll find in high useage rental 'fleets' 'cause they are very simple/reliable and can take a beating and keep on ticking ! Remember, you've likely gots lots of other gear/accessories you'd like to buy too....and the money you save by not blowing $ 1500 on some titanium reg is money you can use to get a better computer .....or fins...or BC...or lights.....or camera...or safety gear.....or wetsuit...etc.

If you're going to be an infrequent diver...and going to stick to casual/recreational diving (not deep...or wreck....or 'tech'...or cave) then you don't have to have a super-duper high performance reg. The regs I listed above are sufficient for dives within the traditional recreational limits of 130'.

P.S. ...the reg I see you using in your avatar is an 'economy' reg (it's an Oceanic Alpha 2nd-stage and very likely equipped with a 'cheap' unbalanced/piston 1st-stage)...so, what did you think of that one ?

Karl

[peterbj7]

It's worth noting that you can also get "over-balanced" regs, which give more air the deeper you go. These are very popular with deep tech divers for obvious reasons. Brands/models which come to mind include Poseidon (all models) and the Aqualung Titan and its variants. Actually, I think the Titan would make an excellent choice for you. It's made in the States so parts are not an issue, it breathes very easily at all depths (I've used mine totally comfortably well below 300'), it's remarkably durable and consistent, and (I believe) it's pretty affordable. I've used mine day in, day out for over two years and I'm afraid it hasn't been serviced, yet it continues to work faultlessly. The other nice things about it are that it's quite light in weight, and the hose routing is thoughtfully and sensibly designed.

But let me also say that the Scubapro Mk2, an extremely basic and cheap unbalanced reg, also gives decent and consistent performance. It's not remotely in the same league as the Titan though.

[uwfan]

Okay, I've read and reread the info on regulators in the ABC's of Regs... and I'm really close to buying the whole shebang... first and second stage, octo, and SPG (to go with a wrist mount Nitrox computer). I've visited several LDS's in my area... but I can't decide what a balanced reg will really do for me? I have been told they "breathe easier"... but at what depth or what conditions?

I'm a warm water wuss (jumping off the boat is MY kind of diving) and being land locked I don't see myself doing more than a couple tropical trips a year, but I'd like to take the plunge into buying my own...

What does a balanced first stage do/ not do for the performance of your reg/octo.
TIA

...maybe we should approach this another way....... can you detail the budget you'd like to stay within ? ...also, what brands do you have available at your local dive shops ? There are some perfectly acceptable and decently performing 'economy' regs out there (unbalanced 1st-stages like Scubapro MK2 / Aqualung Calypso / Mares R2 ) which are the sort of regs you'll find in high useage rental 'fleets' 'cause they are very simple/reliable and can take a beating and keep on ticking ! Remember, you've likely gots lots of other gear/accessories you'd like to buy too....and the money you save by not blowing $ 1500 on some titanium reg is money you can use to get a better computer .....or fins...or BC...or lights.....or camera...or safety gear.....or wetsuit...etc.

If you're going to be an infrequent diver...and going to stick to casual/recreational diving (not deep...or wreck....or 'tech'...or cave) then you don't have to have a super-duper high performance reg. The regs I listed above are sufficient for dives within the traditional recreational limits of 130'.

P.S. ...the reg I see you using in your avatar is an 'economy' reg (it's an Oceanic Alpha 2nd-stage and very likely equipped with a 'cheap' unbalanced/piston 1st-stage)...so, what did you think of that one ?

Karl

Hi Karl,

The reg in my pic is of course a rental reg...Oceanic Alpha 8...and seemed to work well for both my dive trips to Curacao and to Dry Tortugas. Our deepest dive in the Tortugas was about 90', didn't hit 100' but I am AOW, so I've wondered if it would handle any differently (it was an unbalanced 1st stage) at depths to 130' - if I ever go that deep (deepest dive is 100' back 12 years ago when I got my AOW.) I'm really trying to figure out if the few hundred dollars more (for the reg...not including the octo or SPG) is worth the cost. If it's worth it...I'll adjust my budget, but if not....why pay more.

I've read the comment somewhere on the board that adjustable regs really aren't a necessary feature...and think I agree after trying the Alpha 8.

It comes down to regs that have price points of $400 (roughly) for balanced 1st stages[Oceanic Alpha 8 or GT3, Sherwood Oasis II], up from (dang, can't recall, $200 or $300)or regs that are closer to $600 [Sherwood SR100, Atomic B2].

I looked on ScubaPro's website, and see that there are dealers in my area...I just haven't actually seen the regs in the shops (will look again tomorrow while I still have vacation time). I don't know what the prices are for the MK's and really would like to see them in the shop.

I've got the basic gear (fins, prescript mask, snorkel - yea, I know nobody uses it, booties, wetsuit)...now I want the BP/W (tried Latitude Adjustment's in the Dry Tortugas--drank the Koolaid) and the whole reg/oct/SPG + wrist computer set up.

Will take all advice....

[scubafanatic]

Hi UWfan,

...actually I'd second Peter's recommendation......if someone asked me for the 'perfect' reg, I'd likely suggest the Aqualung Titan LX (NOT the basic Titan) or the Aqualung Titan LX Supreme. The 'LX' has a pneumatically balanced 2nd-stage...the 'Supreme' has all that, plus an environmentally sealed 1st-stage. (I've got an 'LX Supreme').

1) retails $ 400
2) 4 LP and 1 HP port
3) very mature/well established reg, it's been 'out' for a LONG time and is very simple/reliable/proven.
4) Aqualung is a well established brand worldwide...can be easily/widely/cheaply serviced just about anywhere.

...that new Sherwood SR-1 looks promising, but it's a new design, and Sherwood has already issued a recall on the 1st-stages...which isn't a good sign....you might not want to be a Sherwood 'beta' tester.
Sherwoods other regs have been out a while and so are more proven, and lower priced.

Atomics are good (I've got an M1).....if you want Atomic, the Z2 is their entry model, and the price will be at the price of, or maybe a little higher than the Titan LX....however, the dealer service network for Atomic is much thinner than for Aqualung.

Poseidon, well. I've got several older 'Jetstreams'......and while they're fine performers, I'm not going to recommend them to you.......their dealer network is 'thin', and it's not easy finding a good service tech for them...and repair parts are on the expensive side, and they feel a little different to breathe than 'common' regs (this is probably a reg you need to test dive prior to purchase to see how it feels to you).....all in all, this brand is probably not a good choice for you.

I don't own/dive Scubapros.....nothing against them, just no personal experience with them...however, based on lots of reading over on scubaboard.com, I'd recommend the MK17/G250V 'combination' if you want a mid-priced Scubapro, ......if you want an 'economy' Scubapro, I'd suggest the MK2/G250V (the MK2 usually doesn't come with the G250V 2nd-stage, ask the dealer to special order that combo for you.)

...to date, my favorite regs...the flagships of my 'fleet' are a pair of Apeks XTX 200's...... these suckers are totally AWESOME !!! ...I feel invincible diving these ! I loaned one to a young lady last Labor Day on SPREE/Flower Gardens when her Scubapro failed....and after the dive I asked her how she liked it, she said that, when her dive buddy ran low on air and they had to return to the boat so he could exit the water, she let him exit (as she still had 1/2 tank of air) and remained under the boat, breathing her tank down just to enjoy how good the Apek XTX 200 felt....no kidding !!!

I'd say, right now, my favorite regs....money no object.....are my Apeks XTX 200's and my Atomic M1....in the mid-priced range, I'd opt for the Aqualung Titan LX or LX Supreme/ Atomiz Z2 / Scubapro MK17/G250V. In the 'economy' range I'd suggest the Aqualung Calypso/Scubapro MK2 Plus/ or that Oceanic reg you used.)

(also, I've got several Mares regs, which I've been very happy with as well...if Mares is under consideration for you, we can discuss that later. )

You've already got some experience with Oceanic regs, and while I don't have any of their regs.....I do really like my Oceanic Datamax Pro Plus II computers...they're retailing at $ 800 ish, but gotta warn ya, if you ever try one, you'll REALLY want one......that's why if you overspend on the reg, you might not have the budget for some other really cool dive 'toys'.

...hope this helps,

Karl

[shadragon]

I owned a ScubaPro MK2 (entry level) for my first year and did tropical to just over freezing water with it. A good reg. I upgraded to a MK16 (mid-range. Essentially the same as a MK17 today) as it had better anti-freeze capabilities and handled sediment laden water better. Then I got a MK25 (top range) and am quite happy with it.

If you are a WWW and are sticking to tropical warmth water with less than 50 dives a year planned then the MK2 / MK17 will probably do you fine. I would recommend the mid-range model though as it has more features. If you plan on doing a lot of diving, a string of deep dives or dives where you feel you are going to exert yourself then balanced is the way to go. (OK, divers should never plan on exerting themselves, but it is nice to know you can without worry.) However, the low to mid range regs may suit you fine. I used my MK16 to 123 feet and never over breathed it.

I was able to borrow a MK25 on a dive trip and it impressed me enough to buy it. My MK16 is now on my pony bottle and the MK2 is my tool box spare I take on all dive trips, just in case. Almost forgot. Whatever you buy, invest in a replacement Sea-Cure mouthpiece for a custom molded fit.

If considering other brands, just substitute their models above. Same logic applies.

[bowjunkie]

I'm a vote for the Titan LX a great reg at a good price . Check warranties on all the regs your looking at as well ,parts for some can be a bit pricey while some have lifetime parts if you service them annually ..

[uwfan]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the info...I'll be off to look again today at regs. Anyone else out there have more info to share? I'll take all I can get!

[davekemph]

not sure what it is worth, but I have the scubapro mk25/s600 primary and secondary reg setup. I have not had a problem with it, and the few tech and nitrox divers at the shop like it a lot. Though it does come in titanium also, I decided to stay away from that at the moment.
I must admit it was a little pricey for the system, was about 650.00 for both stages.

[peterbj7]

not sure what it is worth, but I have the scubapro mk25/s600 primary and secondary reg setup. I have not had a problem with it, and the few tech and nitrox divers at the shop like it a lot. Though it does come in titanium also, I decided to stay away from that at the moment

I used to keep Mk25/S600 for rental, and I found them rather temperamental. They are also the only reg I've used in very cold water that always freeflowed. The only Scubapro reg I'd buy is the cheapest, the Mk2.

be careful with titanium. When the Mk25 ti was introduced it was stated as unsuitable for use with nitrox, although I believe it may have been modified since. Titium reacts with oxygen quite readily, so a ti reg needs to be coated on the surfaces that come into contact with the gas.

I'm so impressed with the basic Titan I must investigate the variants that people are speaking so highly of.

[davekemph]

not sure what it is worth, but I have the scubapro mk25/s600 primary and secondary reg setup. I have not had a problem with it, and the few tech and nitrox divers at the shop like it a lot. Though it does come in titanium also, I decided to stay away from that at the moment

be careful with titanium. When the Mk25 ti was introduced it was stated as unsuitable for use with nitrox, although I believe it may have been modified since. Titium reacts with oxygen quite readily, so a ti reg needs to be coated on the surfaces that come into contact with the gas.

I do not think they made any changes to it, and yep, you get above a certain percentage of oxygen and titanium makes a nice fire. wish we had a camera at the time, but a bunch of people where curious, so they took one and turned it on with the higher oxygen. it did take a little bit, but man that was a hot and bright fire underwater. (and yes the nitrox tank was out of the pool so we could turn it off once the reg went)
thus the reason I am trying to stay away from it. lol.