15 replies to this topic

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

I received my July 2009 copy of Undercurrent and there is a disturbing article about Hawaii's reef fish being taken for sale to aquarium enthusiasts in the US. I am summarizing the article here, using their statistics and paraphrasing their words.....

Not only is the reef population for Hawaiian endemic species which are typically collected down from 45 to 75 percent (depending on species) from 5 years ago, 4/5 of all collected species are herbivores, and the loss of those fish affects the algae/coral balance on the reefs, and the reefs are suffering.

Only 30 percent of the shoreline on Hawaii (the Big Island, where the heaviest fish collecting takes place) has been established as no-take zones, but 6 of the top 10 species continue to decline, even in the no-take zones. Along the other 70 percent of the coastline where collecting occurs, targeted species are dramatically less abundant (butterflyfish, angelfish, Moorish Idols, eels, hermit crabs, yellow tangs)

At least half of Hawaii's most collected species are listed by aquarium experts as "unsuitable for captivity",specifically the Moorish Idol and Hawaiian cleaner wrasse, who are both known to starve within weeks of capture because their preferred foods are not available in captivity. It is estimated that 99 percent of collected species die within 1 year. Basically, these reef animals are fueling a disposable hobby: when the fish die, they are thrown out and replaced, like cut flowers.

The problem is not exclusive to Hawaii. The majority of aquarium stock originates from Indonesia, the Phillipines, Sri Lanka, the Maldives, and Central Pacific Islands. Most of the "live rock" (meaning corals and invertebrates) are also collected from the wild. Collecting many types of coral means the use of hammer & chisel to remove pieces from the reef, which generates heaps of dead coral rubble and habitat damage. Fiji and Indonesia re currently the world's largest suppliers of "live rock" and coral, and the major importer again is the US.

The article continues: If you believe reef animals are best left on their home reefs, then take action:

* Sign the petition sponsored by the Hawaii Reef Fish Recovery Project at www.thepetitionsite.com/1/reef-fish-arent-ornaments

* Ask your local pet stores to stop selling wild-caught marine fish and animals

* Ask your local restaurants & businesses with marine aquariums to stop keeping & displaying the animals

* Contact Coral Reef Alliance and Reef Check and ask them to take action to end fish collection off Hawaii shores

* Spread the word to your fellow divers

We can all, at least, sign the internet petition! (my words)

[Wakemaker]

I received my July 2009 copy of Undercurrent and there is a disturbing article about Hawaii's reef fish being taken for sale to aquarium enthusiasts in the US...

Well, LLDN... um, I'm an aquarium enthusiast. Why does that feel like a confession? I'm not a really bad person, after all. I've only done freshwater. Saltwater is still a fantasy at this point.

I recall my boss, the pet store owner, was always concerned about the method used to "collect" the fish that were on order.

The methods used to bag a fish that has tucked itself safely into a little puka may have been achieved using a poison. The fish had arrived looking healthy. However, several things had happened that pretty much tagged them as DOA (Dead On Arrival). My boss tried to be very ethical. If the fish didn't make it you could get a refund. The underlying reason the new arrivals would die was something that we would only know after dissection. Liver failure being high on the list.

* poison used in captures
* water temperature not regulated during shipping evolution
* critters not fed since capture
* water chemistry in collectors and tanks not maintained
* nitrite poisoning at some point in the journey
* ammonia levels after days of being shipped with so many fish in each closed plastic bag packed in Styrofoam boxes.
* and I think the air content in the bag might have also been a problem because the bags were filled with pure oxygen before they were sealed for air freight. Which, when you think about it, leads to another concern of mine...
* pressure changes during shipping.

While living in Kailua-Kona, I enjoyed a dive to an underwater micro-environment. The locals explained how these little fish I was to see lived no where else in the world. The hot lava had reached the ocean and broke into very large blocks as it cooled. That was part of the reason. The scientists explained why the lava did that. I was amazed. It was way over my head. But I could still appreciate a fish that enjoys modern art deco homes in Hawaii. People who remove reef fish can cause a chain reaction catastrophe, that ultimately affects us all.

The locals, real Hawaiian residents don't damage their Islands. Who's responsible for pilfering fish from those beautiful warm waters? Did you see "Strangers in Paradise," National Geographic?

Edited by Wakemaker, 11 July 2009 - 02:33 AM.

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

Although I prefer animals in their natural habitat, I understand those who want a taste of the underwater world in their homes, offices or restaurants. I just think a better solution would be to leave the natural world alone, and start a captive breeding program. That way, the fish are born & raised in the unnatural environment they will be expected to live in, and have a better chance of survival.

Capturing fish in the wild, using suspect methods, knowing they will die very soon, seems heartless and unnecessary to me.

[Wakemaker]

Although I prefer animals in their natural habitat, I understand those who want a taste of the underwater world in their homes, offices or restaurants. I just think a better solution would be to leave the natural world alone, and start a captive breeding program. That way, the fish are born & raised in the unnatural environment they will be expected to live in, and have a better chance of survival.

Capturing fish in the wild, using suspect methods, knowing they will die very soon, seems heartless and unnecessary to me.

Hungry and desperate people will do almost anything for money, especially when they don't know see any harm in what they do. Educating these types might be necessary. Becoming a divemaster might be a better way for them to make money while becoming an advocate for marine domain awareness. Maybe it's a way to stop the exploitation. And, if we ship happy, healthy, fish in a way that they can stay happy and healthy, then the demand for so many fish will drop because the buyers will be satisfied.

"Captive Breeding Program," did you say? Excellent Idea!!!

An international program could be introduced to award those who qualify. Many fish are said, "Not able" or "Unable" to breed in captivity. Today's fish tank approach and technology allow for even better mimicking aquatic habitat.

Breeding some fish can be easy. Breeding some types of fish has never been done. If you understand their needs and can provide the right situation for breeding, I believe many will come around to reproduction.

Some fish need soft water. Others need hard. Some fish do better kept in out door ponds / tanks or refrigerators (top loading). Some fish are happiest (um, they will need to be "happy" fish) with some strong currents. I would not doubt some need live bugs in the water before they'll breed. The combination of subtle factors can play into the success of a project like these.

Still, what endangered saltwater fish will easily breed in captivity? Is anyone even trying? The problem of extinction is global. I remember when we'd get rare fish from Australia that we didn't order. They mislabeled the box and customs didn't apparently know what they were look'n at. I'd buy a few and try breeding them. The first day I got a load of some of them home, I knew I wouldn't be able to do it. Their feeding habits were so bazaar my largest tank, a 40 gallon show tank, couldn't accommodate them. Plus, my Mom didnt' like the way they gorged on the feeders.

I don't see many aquarium contests these days as I did in the 70's. My favorite show was at the local annual fair.

Edited by Wakemaker, 12 July 2009 - 07:28 AM.

[shadragon]

<soapbox>Personally, the only breeding program I want to see is the same one that worked perfectly for 4.7 billion years. Humans should keep their fingers off nature and stop trying to impose their will on other species. Let them live in the sea and if you need to see fish swim in an artificial environment then support your local aquarium where real live experts do the job right. A lot of the recent pollution in the sea where I used to live in Canada is being caused by fish hatcheries. Tons of fish poo blanketing everything. Artificial hatcheries are not the answer. </soapbox>

My 2 psi anyway...

[peterbj7]

Hungry and desperate people will do almost anything for money, especially when they don't know see any harm in what they do. Educating these types might be necessary. Becoming a divemaster might be a better way for them to make money while becoming an advocate for marine domain awareness

Agreed, but often that means we have to devise other ways they can earn and support themselves. Goes beyond the diving environment as well - inhabitants of jungle areas need to be provided with ways of life that don't involve cutting down the forests. Or as a world village we really are heading for trouble.

[Wakemaker]

<soapbox>Personally, the only breeding program I want to see is the same one that worked perfectly for 4.7 billion years. Humans should keep their fingers off nature and stop trying to impose their will on other species. Let them live in the sea and if you need to see fish swim in an artificial environment then support your local aquarium where real live experts do the job right. A lot of the recent pollution in the sea where I used to live in Canada is being caused by fish hatcheries. Tons of fish poo blanketing everything. Artificial hatcheries are not the answer. </soapbox>

My 2 psi anyway...

Sorry to hear about the pollution caused by the fish hatcheries. Canada has some beautiful places.

If you start thread on "conservation" let me know. I'm tempted to chat about my, um, "love" for eating birds, fish, cows, and even pork. I'm not a good butcher. Lobster tails are yummy! Give me Ahi!! Ono!! Wahoo!! OMG!! Ahem.

Best salmon I ever ate wuz "farm raised" believe it or not. And still, I am not an advocate for farm raised fish in general. The popular methods are as devistating as the harvesting of sugar cane which kills whole reefs in Hawaii in one ugly swoop, brah! You can see it in the National Geographic movie mentioned above.

You gotta start another topic on this since you brought it up. K?

[peterbj7]

He started that thread! I'm going to post when I can line up my thoughts in order.

[Wakemaker]

...we have to devise other ways they can earn and support themselves. Goes beyond the diving environment as well - inhabitants of jungle areas need to be provided with ways of life that don't involve cutting down the forests...

Hawaii is a difficult place to get a good job. Hum? Yup. Try it. Disneyland in Anaheim (California) can have more visitors in a day than the entire state of Hawaii has residents. Most of the people I knew had jobs outside of Hawaii (I worked on ships. Including United States Navy Ships). Or they (the locals) had two or three jobs to support their families. How many "tourist" jobs pay full-time, plus provide benefits?

I'd like to say, "Anyway, shipping aquarium fish from the state seems trifling compared to the number of reef fish I suspect are killed by other means." I won't be able to check real numbers until I get ashore next week. This needs to be checked. It is far better to take care of the big fundamental issues.

My desires always goes out to the Hawaiian. If the Natives say, "Eh, you like stop shipping out da kine fish," then I'm all for it!

When do kids in the Heartland get to see marine life? How many parents wish their family could? How many aquarium exhibits do you find near Belden, MS? We get to dive. Many will never get to dive simply because they never knew they could. What we do on SCUBA seems to be taken for granted. And now, the most remote and beautiful island reef fish may become exclusive to only those with time and money, who can travel. I'd feel better knowing handicapped, seniors, youth, and isolated communities all over the US get to experience being face to face with tank life. I feel banks and other commercial institutions should be encouraged to contract a 500 gallon saltwater tank for their lobbies. If I had my way, everyone would have access to the things we need kids to understand the mostest.

My tanks were self-sustaining fish tanks to a large degree. And my initial investment lasted years and years. Some fish breed without hesitation in tanks. In these cases, all I had to do was maintain the water chemistry, temperature, and food supply. Oh, and remove excess algae from the glass.

Ask me for the link to some modern home aquariums. Then, maybe, you'll feel different about how we approach this scarcity concern.

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Edited by Wakemaker, 14 July 2009 - 06:53 PM.

[Wakemaker]

... I just think a better solution would be to leave the natural world alone, and start a captive breeding program. That way, the fish are born & raised in the unnatural environment they will be expected to live in, and have a better chance of survival...

What do you call a business or a person who is contracted to provide live fish for a continous public viewing?

When I spotted this display a couple of years ago, I was disappointed. After seeing it again recently, I remembered this thread and how it might contribute to current arguements against keeping fish.

The two largest fish in this hugh display tank were sharks, which haveca demeanor of Californis's locals. They both apparently have gill rot. A condition like this warrents isolating them for proper care and treatment. This tank is big enough to climb into! My estimate iscaround 3000 gallons. (The wave shaped glass makes it difficult for me to give an accurate guess). Properly removing the fish might be a terribly difficult task due to tank decorations. However, if it were my responsibility, I'd do it. It would be more effective to treat them in smaller tanks than to medicate 3000 gallons every dose. Plus, treating the whole tank for a problem concerning only a small population of fish, may be damaging to the bacteria that supports the health of the tank.

While this tank does not appear to have tropical fish, problems and concerns may be shared. I believe these two sharks would die from shock if they were released. Their gill condition might be due more to poor water chemistry than fungi.

I'm going to check on what it will require to get the contract for this tank. Anyone have prior expeience getting contracts?

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Edited by Wakemaker, 27 July 2009 - 05:04 PM.

[drbill]

I used to keep freshwater aquaria, but never salt.

We had a problem here in SoCal with aquarium collectors vacuuming up baby garibaldi on our reefs during the late 1980's. Fortunately the state imposed restrictions on that collecting and eventually banned the take of garibaldi all together.

Aquarium supply houses that use fish rearing techniques rather than live capture from the wild as their primary means of providing fish are not as big a problem. Most of the fish in my aquaria reproduced the next generation (if I didn't kill them first by not monitoring the temperature properly or feeding them).

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

Ron, I understand your point that aquariums allow those who would otherwise never be able to see sea creatures in their natural habitat to at least view them in an unnatural habitat. I still say that over-harvesting those animals from the reef, and ultimately damaging the reef equilibrium to such an extent that fish no long flourish in their natural habitat is counter-productive. When there is a low number of algae-eating reef fish, the algae takes over and suddenly the natural balance is gone and the habitat is now skewed.

What will happen to the limited jobs in Hawaii if their underwater tourism is damaged so badly that divers & snorkelers stop going?

[drbill]

When there is a low number of algae-eating reef fish, the algae takes over and suddenly the natural balance is gone and the habitat is now skewed.

This is frequently caused by the local extirpation of a top level carnivore like sharks. This leads to a population explosion of lower order carnivores (let's say groupers as an example). These then eat the herbivorous fish and greatly reduce their numbers, resulting in algal growth on the coral reefs and the possible demise of the coral and the base of the reef ecosystem.

[Wakemaker]

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What will happen to the limited jobs in Hawaii if their underwater tourism is damaged so badly that divers & snorkelers stop going?

"Strangers in Paradise" by National Geographic demonstrates the effect (past and continued) of humans in Hawaii. The damage has (past tense) been done. There was a report that suggested MOST of the endangered species in the world were concentrated in Hawaii. Could be that the most extinct species are also concentrated in the Hawaiian Islands.

It's a great video. National Geographic site indicates it's available on DVD now. Libraries may have it. If you do see it, please connect with me so we can chat! As I recall, the VHS version I watched when it first came out was a little "honest" and it kinda hurt.

Regards,
Ron

The pic is of a saltwater tank at a fast fud establishment in the Florida Keys. Talk about energetic and apparently healthy/Happy fish! Wow!

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[Morish Idol]

as i can see LLDN view on this topic i can also see the view of others that having an aquarium is like having a part of the ocean with you. i have had salt water tanks for years. i absolutely love the animals and i believe it is in the best interest of them and myself to do MY homework on which ones are best able/suited to captivity. i have not had my tank up for some time now but when it was last up it was running for almost 4 yrs. in that time i lost a total of 6 fish. i attribute that to doing my research on what animals were good for an aquarium and that i varied their diet. i never feed them the same thing twice in a day. i had a total of over 6 different types of food, therefore they never got the same combination more then twice a week. watching them and seeing the interact in the tank was so fantastic. and it was one of the reasons i wanted to learn to dive to be able to see them in their natural environment. and yes there are some scrumplious collectors still out there but so much has changed on the collecting habits. also there are captive breed fish out there. compared to the natural environment and selection it is very small. but these animals are easier to adapt and more hardy for the aquarium. compared to even just 10 yrs ago it is a milestone. and yes there are some animals that should never be collected for an aquarium but i think it is up to us who buy these animals to know what animal can/will survive in an aquarium. and not to purchase them. i believe if we did not purchase them then they would not be willing to collect them. and yes to a certain extent the aquarium hobby is a "throw away " business. but that applies to all fish collected and not just salt water animals.
and you can have an aquarium that has no wild collected animals in it. and that means fish and corals, and live rock. check out this page.... www.garf.org
they have some tanks there that are over 10yrs old now and most if not all the animals are captive breed. nothing from the wild. oh and this site is completely free. they share all kinds of information to the general public for nothing. it is a very large site to try to read through completely but well worth the time.

Edited by Morish Idol, 01 September 2009 - 03:49 PM.