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Teleportation Anyone??


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#1 Mermaid Lady

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 08:33 AM

This essay originally appeared on my Facebook page and was excerpted in the
Echoes of Apollo blog. Submitted for your approval in its entirety below:

Posted Image
Teleportation? Thanks but no thanks!


Teleportation

A Thought Experiment

Teresa E. Tutt PhD


A popular science fiction motif is teleportation. Despite having different forms (booth, beam, portal, disk, etc.), they all work the same. You disappear one place and re-appear in another.

Though it is highly unlikely that such a device a device will be invented in our lifetime, recent advances in quantum physics suggest that such a thing may eventually become possible. All engineering issues and discussions of "the soul" aside, there are certain philosophical and metaphysical issues involved.

The most serious of such issues is the one of continuity of existence. To illustrate, let us digress slightly by assuming that it becomes possible to make an exact copy of a person, right down to the quantum states of the individual atoms. The duplicate would be indistinguishable from the original. The duplicate would have all of the memories of the original. In fact, the duplicate would believe him/herself to be the same person as the original. Yet the original still exists. This gives rise to several disturbing scenarios:

Scenario 1:
A device makes an exact copy of you. The duplicate, for all practical purposes , is you. Yet you exist separately from your duplicate. Now the duplicate leaves, and the two of your never have contact with each other again. The duplicate has a completely different life, as if you had a completely separate second life following your duplication. Yet the original "you" has no knowledge, experience, or sense of it.

Scenario 2:
The device makes a copy of you as before. This time, the copy is created on the other side of the world. As before, you never have contact with each other, and your duplicate with your memories lives out a completely different life on the other side of the world. And you never know about it.

Did you teleport across the world? Or did you stay home?

Scenario 3:
Same as Scenario 1 with a disturbing twist. The device makes a copy of you. The duplicate "you" appears, then immediately fetches a disintegrator and proceeds to vapourise you. The duplicate has all of your memories and is essentially "you". From the point of view of the duplicate, "you" have teleported into another location and then destroyed a copy of "you" that "you" found left behind. But did you?
-OR-
did you inadvertently commit suicide by having a copy of yourself made, that then proceeded to kill you?

Scenario 4:
Same as scenario 2 with the following change. Your duplicate is created in a far away location, but unfortunately it is necessary to destroy you in the process of creating your exact duplicate. Your duplicate will appear at the remote location with all your memories. From your duplicate's point of view, "you" have teleported, plain and simple. Or did you?
-OR-
did you simply destroy yourself in order to create a duplicate at a remote location, one whose life of which the original "you" will never have any knowledge or experience?

Fortunately you or I are unlikely to have to face this issue in our lifetime. But in the unlikely event we do perfect a teleportation machine in our lifetime, please understand my reluctance to ride in one.

Edited by Mermaid Lady, 31 January 2010 - 08:39 AM.

Cheers,
Teresa,
The original
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#2 Guest_PlatypusMan_*

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:22 AM

In each of your scenarios, teleportation has not occurred--duplication has.

Teleportation is when an object or individual is transported from one location to another. Your examples would be of bilocation--the same object or individual being two places at the same time.

Your posited device is not a teleporter, but instead a cloning (as in copying) for objects and individuals.

Your scenarios have been explored cinematically in The 6th Day, complete with a copy killing off the prior version.

PPM

#3 Mermaid Lady

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 10:15 AM

In each of your scenarios, teleportation has not occurred--duplication has.

Teleportation is when an object or individual is transported from one location to another. Your examples would be of bilocation--the same object or individual being two places at the same time.

Your posited device is not a teleporter, but instead a cloning (as in copying) for objects and individuals.

Your scenarios have been explored cinematically in The 6th Day, complete with a copy killing off the prior version.

PPM


PPM,

Yes, it is a digression, as noted in the third paragraph.

But my main point is that there is a fine line between actual teleporation and the duplication scenario 4. It may be inherently impossible to distinguish the two. What if there is in fact no difference? Would you still teleport?

Conversely, one of Asimov's arguments was that any teleportation device was potentially a duplicating device.

And for Star Trek fans, recall the episodes "The Enemy Within" (TOS) and "Second Chances" (TNG). The latter addresses scenario 2 quite well. Each man claimed (correctly) to be the real
Spoiler
.

Edited by Mermaid Lady, 31 January 2010 - 10:16 AM.

Cheers,
Teresa,
The original
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Bass player for the band formerly known as Opulent.

"'
I'm only wearing black until they come out with something darker..."

#4 peterbj7

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 06:44 PM

The duplicate would be indistinguishable from the original. The duplicate would have all of the memories of the original


I see several logical impossibilities in this. What about Heisenberg, and what are the implications of chaos theory?

#5 Dantheengineer

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 07:19 PM

I remember reading a Scifi novel along similar lines. I dont recall it was Asimov tho (I am a BIIIIIIIGGGGG fan!!). The plot revolved around a similar machine, except that the "Shadow" of matter left behind was an "echo" (if you will) of that send. Slightly out of "phase" in a Langolier's style, if you can follow?
The transmitted matter continued about his/her/it's business as usual and was completely unaware of the echo left behind.

Our "hero" finds himself left on the transmittal pad wondering if the machine even worked and WTF's going on when twelve heavily armed and hungry marines (Previously transmitted) burst into the "transmitter podule" and try to strong arm him over to a chain link pen with the rest of the food.
It turned out that out of phase meant no possible physical interaction with the "original" world so the only source of nourishment was "copies" of what ever was sent through.

Eeeeew!!!! Right?

Anyway i gotta go, i'm busy building a time machine. Not that i'm in a rush......... for obvious reasons. :P
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#6 Landlocked Dive Nut

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 07:31 PM

Anyway i gotta go, i'm busy building a time machine. Not that i'm in a rush......... for obvious reasons. :P


:lmao: :P Can I play with it when it's ready??
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Posted 31 January 2010 - 07:36 PM

Anyway i gotta go, i'm busy building a time machine. Not that i'm in a rush......... for obvious reasons. :P


:lmao: :P Can I play with it when it's ready??


Yeah, me too!!! I want to go back to right before I made my last post and stop it from happening. I would be happy if my duplicate stopped it. Actually, I would buy him a beer if he did that.

#8 ArtRunScuba

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 08:24 PM

In each of your scenarios, teleportation has not occurred--duplication has.

Teleportation is when an object or individual is transported from one location to another. Your examples would be of bilocation--the same object or individual being two places at the same time.

Your posited device is not a teleporter, but instead a cloning (as in copying) for objects and individuals.

Your scenarios have been explored cinematically in The 6th Day, complete with a copy killing off the prior version.

PPM


PPM,

Yes, it is a digression, as noted in the third paragraph.

But my main point is that there is a fine line between actual teleporation and the duplication scenario 4. It may be inherently impossible to distinguish the two. What if there is in fact no difference? Would you still teleport?

Conversely, one of Asimov's arguments was that any teleportation device was potentially a duplicating device.

And for Star Trek fans, recall the episodes "The Enemy Within" (TOS) and "Second Chances" (TNG). The latter addresses scenario 2 quite well. Each man claimed (correctly) to be the real
Spoiler
.


Remember the fear that Reginald Barclay had for the process of teleportation, that he would be scattered all over the universe; also remember when Scottie showed up so many years later after teleporting issues, or when some of the crew including the Captain were reduced to their younger versions. Many other variations too numerous to count. Hey, I could dig being able to beam anywhere on the planet, certainly a great first step before beaming from place to place in outer space. Sure would eliminate the travel hassles that are increasing all the time.

And then there is the question of cloning, which is actually far closer to a day to day reality than teleporting and often an issue in the Trek saga and in much of science fiction. :P

#9 Landlocked Dive Nut

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 08:45 PM

Anyway i gotta go, i'm busy building a time machine. Not that i'm in a rush......... for obvious reasons. :P


:lmao: :P Can I play with it when it's ready??


Yeah, me too!!! I want to go back to right before I made my last post and stop it from happening. I would be happy if my duplicate stopped it. Actually, I would buy him a beer if he did that.


:P woulda, coulda, shoulda!!!

Does history really go wacky if you meet up with yourself in the past/future? Is it the same for your duplicate?

Crap, I've given myself a headache thinking about this! :P
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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:03 PM

Anyway i gotta go, i'm busy building a time machine. Not that i'm in a rush......... for obvious reasons. :P


:lmao: :P Can I play with it when it's ready??


Yeah, me too!!! I want to go back to right before I made my last post and stop it from happening. I would be happy if my duplicate stopped it. Actually, I would buy him a beer if he did that.


:P woulda, coulda, shoulda!!!

Does history really go wacky if you meet up with yourself in the past/future? Is it the same for your duplicate?

Crap, I've given myself a headache thinking about this! :P


It would be awesome if there were duplicates of some people. Other people, well you should just stop after disintegrating the original.

Didn't turn out so well when Homer Simpson did it though so that should pretty much sum up this discussion.

#11 Dantheengineer

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:09 PM

Anyway i gotta go, i'm busy building a time machine. Not that i'm in a rush......... for obvious reasons. :P


:P :lmao: Can I play with it when it's ready??


Yeah, me too!!! I want to go back to right before I made my last post and stop it from happening. I would be happy if my duplicate stopped it. Actually, I would buy him a beer if he did that.


:P woulda, coulda, shoulda!!!

Does history really go wacky if you meet up with yourself in the past/future? Is it the same for your duplicate?

Crap, I've given myself a headache thinking about this! :P


Marginally before the time machine project, i advanced a number of theoretical designs for a "duplicating" device.

Project "Heiniken" as it was know (and it's subsiquent versions-"round" one through thirteen, then aaaaarrrgh!: blaaarrgh! and the "vomitous" oh!mygod!oh!mygod#"splash"!!oh! no not on my shoes!#),

quite literally removed without trace the subject material, only to replace it with a "new" or "fresh" copy the very next morning in it's place!!!
Often the the new copy or "subject material" would exhibit inherent memories seemingly concurrent with the original's from the previous eveing's "testing" and insist on it's complete unaccountability.


At least this is the theory i'm trying to get by my parol officer........

Many DONT rate my chances.....personally i aim to get him on the same "test" program. It can only help my case.

:P
Regards
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#12 Dantheengineer

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:19 PM

Sorry Tammy, i got carried away...the point was Project Heineken ALSO invariably ended up with a large head ache. And....no little time distortion in hind sight!
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#13 Landlocked Dive Nut

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:20 PM

Marginally before the time machine project, i advanced a number of theoretical designs for a "duplicating" device.

Project "Heiniken" as it was know (and it's subsiquent versions-"round" one through thirteen, then aaaaarrrgh!: blaaarrgh! and the "vomitous" oh!mygod!oh!mygod#"splash"!!oh! no not on my shoes!#),

quite literally removed without trace the subject material, only to replace it with a "new" or "fresh" copy the very next morning in it's place!!!
Often the the new copy or "subject material" would exhibit inherent memories seemingly concurrent with the original's from the previous eveing's "testing" and insist on it's complete unaccountability.


At least this is the theory i'm trying to get by my parol officer........

Many DONT rate my chances.....personally i aim to get him on the same "test" program. It can only help my case.

:P


OMG! :lmao: Good luck with all of it! Posted Image Posted Image
Posted Image

#14 hambergler

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:29 PM

HELLLLLLP MEEEEEE!!!!! HELLLLLLLLLPPPPP MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!
I'm growing older but not up,
My metabolic rate is pleasantly stuck.
Let those winds of time blow over my head,
I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead.

#15 Landlocked Dive Nut

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:44 PM

HELLLLLLP MEEEEEE!!!!! HELLLLLLLLLPPPPP MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!


Oh, now THAT's old school! (the remake sucked IMHO)
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