47 replies to this topic

[domino22]

I do my two solo dives tomorrow for S.D.I certification. Why because when I travel alone I do not want to get stuck with a unknown buddy on a dive boat period. I have been buddied with some real fools over the years. When I get on the boat I watch folks and figure out who to stay away from. I would rather take my chances alone with a pony and extra mask than a unkown buddy. But I prefer to dive with some one I know. And do most of the time, but I want to be able to make my own choice of rather I go alone or not. There fore the Solo Certification!

[Capt.JP]

Hey everybody, thanks for your input. I like getting opinions from various perspectives.
For the record, I do solo dive under the parameters of equipment, planning, training and prevailing conditions of weather and sea conditions. I believe in preparing for all circumstances and am not afraid to cancel a dive. I believe in being able to rescue yourself and when I buddy dive (which is most of the time) I carefully evaluate my assigned partner by discussing our experience and dive philosophies. I do not depend on my buddy to rescue me but I have been helpful to the less experienced.
I prefer to dive with people of equal experience but can have fun with a newly certified diver.
In the past more experienced divers have shared their knowledge and their dives with me and I
feel that maybe I should share a little of mine.
Thanks again and I look forward to further postings on various subjects. Jim.

[maninthesea]

solo dive quite often and have NO qualms about it. I probably have more solo dives than buddy dives, definitely if we discount training dives which are in my opinion more dangerous than solo dives. (If I as an instructor had a problem in an open water class I would not count on a student to "save" me) I have the gear, experience, skills, and comfort level to do it safely. In fact if I am doing a dive that I think is close to pushing the envelope I WANT to solo dive. I feel as I have much less task loading if I only am looking out for myself. They may sound selfish but they way I look at it by buddy diving I may put a good friend or buddy in a situation that may jeopardize them or I may be in a situation where I may be forced to choose between abandoning my buddy or being the second victim. I think I would end up as the second victim! Solo diving is not as difficult as it is made out to be. Just make sure you have the proper gear skills, and are comfortable with the fact that you have to be completely selfsufficient.

Jim

[Walter]

I teach rescue skills in my OW class. In the event of an emergency, my students can get me to the boat.

[Diverbrian]

I teach rescue skills in my OW class.  In the event of an emergency, my students can get me to the boat.

Walter,

That is a whole different topic. While the reference here is understandable, we may get more off that discussion if it has it's own thread where we can really comment on it.

I consider many of my "professional dives" to be solo dives of a sort. Also at other times, I may be diving a rig (for instance, heavy double 100's in a BP/wing have no ditchable weight for me) that my buddy is unfamilar with. It does take training to safely use that kind of rig.

The "professional dives" are the worst for this, though. Many times I am dealing with an unknown quantity as a diver. The person could be excellent or poor. I had nothing to do with their training, but I am guiding them around. Now let's be honest about whether I trust that person to pull me up. I am there for them. As far as them being there for me, I am not always so sure.

Edited by Diverbrian, 30 October 2004 - 07:14 AM.

[fishnchips]

I enjoyed solo diving. I think if it is done properly, it is much safer than many so call "buddy" dives.

I have encountered more life threatening situation guiding groups of "dive tourists", teaching in the OW/AOW class, than in any Solo diving situation. I had risk my life dealing with panic dive tourists, OW and AOW students, but never had one situation where I risk my own life in solo diving.

It is really stressful guiding a dive for some dive tourists that look like disaster waiting to happen. A solo dive where I don't have to baby sit or put myself in risky situation, that is relax enjoyable dive.

In a situation where one is assign a dive buddy on a boat, can you really count on this stranger to risk his own life saving you? Can I trusted my life and safety on my OW/AOW students? Most new divers' situation awareness, circle of attention - themselves. In the class we teach buddy awareness, students were misled into thinking dive buddy is the sourece for alternate air, buddy will get us out of situation....... I always tell the student, the 1st person that is responsible for your safety is you yourself. It is time to take ownership of your own safety and be responsible for yourself. In my opinion, if one can't be responsible of his/her own safety, how can he/she be a good dive buddy?

When come to my own life safety, I prefer to rely on myself. I believe the number one person I can depend on to save me is myself. A good buddy that give me a helping hand is icing on the cake. The key words is GOOD DIVE BUDDY.

I don't guide dive, nor teach anymore. Most dives now are relax enjoyable dives. If I dive with somebody, it is usually someone that I don't have to baby sit.

[Walter]

That is a whole different topic.

Brian, I disagree. If an instructor feels "If I as an instructor had a problem in an open water class I would not count on a student to "save" me" then he has the power to correct the situation.

[peterbj7]

I think Walter's view of his students' preparedness to deal with a real situation when presumably they are newly qualified in rescue skills and otherwise inexperienced is very optimistic. But perhaps he is an exceptional instructor.

As some people may be skimming this topic and not reading that closely, I think we should reiterate that UNLESS a suitably qualified instructor has said that you may solo dive (which implies many things), AND you are carrying all the requisite equipment and are experienced in its use, AND you feel totally comfortable with the dive, then you should NOT do it.

Edited by peterbj7, 31 October 2004 - 03:29 AM.

[Walter]

Peter,

My students are, of course, students. Are they going to react as well as you or I? Very unlikely. OTOH, I trust their abilities more than most of the random buddies I pick up on charters. Unfortunately, most divers have never been taught rescue skills, too few OW courses require it. OW students in some courses, including mine, have learned how to rescue divers in distress, both panicked and calm, conscious and unconscious, on the surface and submerged. Are they as skilled as someone who's completed their SLAM clourse? Of course not. They can, however, get me back to the boat, which was my original statement. Any instructor who doesn't feel his students are able to do the same, has the ability to change it.

[Diverbrian]

Walter,

The standard up here is a little different. Rescue Courses cover helping someone not in position to help themselves at all. That means panicking or unconscious. We teach basic concerns with getting someone up from an O2 Tox incident in our open water as we teach nitrox with open water, but let us face facts in this event. Someone in convulsions without a full face mask will likely drown before they can safely get to the surface. I know of one successful rescue in that event and that was the GUE training director that pulled it off.

Open water rescue skills in our classes consist of towing a diver in without kicking them, establishing positive buoyancy if possible (ie. ditching their weights if their rig has ditchable weight), air shares (although I do not agree with the vertical attitude required by use of the short hose on ascent. It is much easier to control a free ascent or descent in the horizontal position) and in essence keeping them calm so that they can help themselves (unless a tired diver tow is required). I do NOT want a diver still getting used to being underwater trying to pull a panic victim up who may take their reg from their mouth or worse. That violates the first rule of rescue, make sure that you are not creating two victims for the price of one. I was reading about a double death on the Empress of Ireland involving experienced divers where the second death was apparently caused by the violation of this rule.

I trust my normal dive buddy explicity to help me and she has somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 dives. Yes, she is rescue certified. But more importantly, she is a member of the Coast Guard Aux. and well versed in first aid and rescue from that background. She also has an exceptional head on her shoulders and is known to employ it.

Most of my other normal (read: local) dive buddies are instructors/dive masters/tech divers and don't seem to have the same presence underwater. But, I trust them on tech dives as they are still superb divers and often better than me. Let's face it, planned deco adds a different attitude to a dive. I have to trust them or I don't dive. Most of all though, I trust myself on these types of dives. I am responsible for my own safety.

I prefer to buddy dive, but have few qualms about solo in the correct gear configuration with the correct plan. I still get nervous about playing tour guide on recreational dives with divers of unknown actual skill level. I still feel that those are basically solo dives.

Just my random thoughts,

Brian

PS I agree that I trust the students that I work with far more than the "random buddy" that I may pick up on a charter.

[TraceMalin]

I used to be an avid solo diver until I trained with the same guys over and over again to form a truly unified buddy team. Buddy diving or team diving is a true art form. It takes the same dedication and practice to develop a good dive team as it does to develop a good sports team. I've become very impressed with the idea of same gear configurations, identical skill base, like-minded dive planning, lots of emergency practice and... okay, here's where I need a cute girl to start seducing me away from the GUE/DIR cult... hurry up... I'm... starting to get the warm fuzzies thinking about how unified life is there... resistance is futile, you will be assimilated...

O...K... anyway... solo diving is often better than diving with a buddy because most buddy teams are simply two solo divers diving solo together. They actually handicap one another and can't expediently solve problems and probably couldn't handle a critical situation or emergency. Communication breakdowns, buddy seperation, delays, exceeding individual comfort zones and reduction of enjoyment are all results of unpracticed team diving.

Is solo diving safe? Often more than buddy diving the way buddy diving is practiced.

But, nothing beats a threesome... meaning a well-trained team of three.

Trace

[Diverbrian]

I used to be an avid solo diver until I trained with the same guys over and over again to form a truly unified buddy team. Buddy diving or team diving is a true art form. It takes the same dedication and practice to develop a good dive team as it does to develop a good sports team. I've become very impressed with the idea of same gear configurations, identical skill base, like-minded dive planning, lots of emergency practice and... okay, here's where I need a cute girl to start seducing me away from the GUE/DIR cult... hurry up... I'm... starting to get the warm fuzzies thinking about how unified life is there... resistance is futile, you will be assimilated...

O...K... anyway... solo diving is often better than diving with a buddy because most buddy teams are simply two solo divers diving solo together. They actually handicap one another and can't expediently solve problems and probably couldn't handle a critical situation or emergency. Communication breakdowns, buddy seperation, delays, exceeding individual comfort zones and reduction of enjoyment are all results of unpracticed team diving.

Is solo diving safe? Often more than buddy diving the way buddy diving is practiced.

But, nothing beats a threesome... meaning a well-trained team of three. 

Trace

Actually on many dives the trio is the way to go. Up here on wrecks, we often have a diver taking video. I had my first experience taking video yesterday when a buddy loaned me his camera. It was one of those "humbling, but with time I could learn to be proficient at this" deals. A group of three leaves one diver to take video and concentrate on that while the other two cover his/her back because this does consume a lot of attention. Once the video is taken, that leaves a well trained team of three divers.

Often my dive buddy points out photo ops to me and actually has a better eye than I do for it.

I have dove with teams of divers that may seem like extreme risk takers, but they are actually well trained and have figured out how to handle the most likely emergencies. Some they have taken steps to reduce/prevent. This would include streamlining gear to reduce the chance of entanglement. Some they have equipped themselves to handle. This would include redundant regs to isolate a reg that free flows or multiple cutting tools to cut their buddies out of entanglements that do happen. They have trained in the use of lift bags to allow them to do deco if they get blown off a line. I have had fun diving with these groups and felt very safe on some dives that have started to expand my comfort zone. I have also learned a great deal.

I could go on, but you wouldn't catch me on a wreck like some of the ones that I dive without a buddy that I have reason to trust and that trusts me in the same way. But, buddy diving DOES not mean two solo divers. This is what I see far too often. The key is communication and an ability to know what the other diver will do in a certain situation.

If I have a buddy that I cannot communicate with or anticipate underwater, that is not a buddy and I am likely to consider it a solo dive. And as I have said, if I know that it is solo going in, I am fine with that.

If you have a "working" team, often a trio is the way to do it as two only tends to lead to two solo divers once the work starts. If the dive team plans to just swim around the wreck and maybe grab some snapshots, two well-trained divers is fine.

[randy54]

Peter,

My students are, of course, students. Are they going to react as well as you or I? Very unlikely. OTOH, I trust their abilities more than most of the random buddies I pick up on charters. Unfortunately, most divers have never been taught rescue skills, too few OW courses require it. OW students in some courses, including mine, have learned how to rescue divers in distress, both panicked and calm, conscious and unconscious, on the surface and submerged. Are they as skilled as someone who's completed their SLAM clourse? Of course not. They can, however, get me back to the boat, which was my original statement. Any instructor who doesn't feel his students are able to do the same, has the ability to change it.

I wrote the stuff in quotes, then as I started to write the rest, I realized, with little training, some divers are dependable, and even with lots of training, some will never be. "This is why I like the 'good old days', mid 1970's and earlier, when so much time and effort was taken by the training agancies on diver fitness and handling of emergencies. Anyone who learned how to dive would make a good buddy. Today, for the most part, if you can show you know how to suck on a reg, clear a mask and float for awhile, you can get a C-Card." My second dive required me to make a rescue. 4 other divers with me, encluding the buddy of the distressed diver, (his daughter), thought the guy was playing. These were all people I knew very well, considered 3 of them as much more intelligant than I, and to this day I am baffeled by their lack of response. This was 1970. As a new diver, why I understood right away what had happened and they didn't, I don't know. I do know we were all taught things in OW class that isn't taught today, and it was those things that enabled me to react correctly, and made me physically able to do what was needed. Since I started diving again in 1990, I tend to feel safer diving solo and with new divers. Too many long time divers I've buddied with on boats turned out to be very unsafe. I know new divers don't know much, and they know it too. So my expectations of them are low, and they tend to be very attentive divers.

[Dennis]

Very good responses for this subject. I know I am not currently ready for solo diving. I do not dive enough to be proficient. In order to consider solo diving, you must be proficient. Then you have to make sure you are mentally ready and you have to plan for the unexpected. Solo diving is a personal choice. Not one I would suggest or recommend to anyone.

There was a time when I was ready to do some solo diving. However, when I mentioned it to Donna, she was not too keen on the idea. I have promised Donna that I will not dive solo, at least on purpose. I have had dive buddies that were less than useless and I considered myself solo after we hit the water and realized there was no way I was getting help from them. They either didn't have the necessary skills or they didn't care about their buddy in the first place. Walter was my instructor and he taught both Donna and I rescue skills in our open water training. I surely wasn't trained as well as a SLAM certified diver, but I can and will get someone to the boat if I have to.

[Walter]

Dennis,

MB and I are currently planning a joint NAUI/YMCA Resuce/SLAM seminar. Completing it will qualify you for NAUI Rescue and/or YMCA SLAM. Marvel will likely attend, you should consider coming down for the event. This will be about the 3rd one we've run, they're always fun and informative. This will be the first one we've done that was not geared towards instructors.