72 replies to this topic

[steelemagnolia6]

Sizing is one of the main reason that I am going to go over to a back plate and wings. I'll be able to customize it to fit me the way that I want it to fit me!!!

I don't know if the "bra" size has anything to do with it, but once again if you don't fit into a standard size mold you might have to do some trial and error. That is why I suggest renting a selection of equipment till you find the prefect fit.

Edited by steelemagnolia6, 27 May 2005 - 09:26 AM.

[fbp]

... tank stabilizers built into the "wings".

Heyya ITB,
I read this and am wondering what these are???
I use the Halycon BP, single tank, love it but wondered what the "Stabilizers" were.

I have a slight tilting of the tank (has a 30cf pony attached so explainable) but am using the SS strap adjusters (forgit what they're called) on the inside of the tank straps to keep them from sliding around. Seems like it shouldn't be that way, but only thing I could come up with...

So "Stablilizers??" would that help??

Thanx

frank

[Genesis]

I hugely prefer a backplate and wing to any "regular" BC, and I've dove about 2 dozen different "BC" styles and configurations at one time or another.

Try a BP+Wing before you buy. You might not like it, but then again you might. If you do, it'll be a bit cheaper than a GOOD "traditional" BC and if you decide to progress into more serious diving (e.g. overhead, wrecks, caves, deco, doubles, etc) you're going to end up here anyway. Better to buy once than buy twice!

As for regs, you can't do much better than the Apeks DS4/TX50 and/or ATX50 for current production. Small, simple, easy to rebuild (for either you or a tech), completely sealed so cold water is not a problem and the TX50 has a METAL air tube.

Scubapro and most of the others have gone to PLASTIC. You'd think that plastic would be "better" because it can't corrode, but you'd be wrong. Plastic promotes tremendous cotton mouth problems; I find that I cannot breathe an S600 for more than a half-hour without wanting to gag on the cotton in the back of my throat.

I can breathe a TX50 for HOURS without any hint of the same problem, and I actually prefer the TX50 in terms of HOW it delivers air. I just think its smoother.

The reason for this is that the metal condenses some of the moisture in your breath when you exhale, and then re-evaporates it into the cold, dry air coming into the reg when you inhale. Plastic doesn't transfer heat and moisture the same way - thus, it delivers much drier gas. This does NOT show up in a machine test, but it sure does when a human pair of lungs are on the other end of it!

Now you may differ in this, BUT you won't be able to return a reg for this once you buy it, so be careful, because Scubapro of course doesn't talk about this little difference in construction. Truth is, plastic is cheaper for them (to build) Scubapro used to use a metal air tube in the G250, which is one of the best-breathing regs I've ever sucked on. My g/f (fun2dive) has a couple of them on her rig now and she likes them a lot.

Also, my expeience is that the Mk20 and 25s need to be rebuilt every 50 dives or so, which if you dive a lot is too often. They claim annual service is required - that's a good idea. I just stripped and cleaned two of them with a friend of mine who is a cave diver, and they were both leaking pretty good from the HP O-ring - the common place where they start to do that. It is unavoidable with a balanced piston, since the water - and anything in the water, like sand, grit, mud, etc - is in direct contact with that sealing surface.

Dry sealed diaphram regs are much less likely to suffer from this.

On the other hand diaphram regs are intolerant of water getting into them through the tank inlet connection, so you do have to be careful with them when they're NOT on a tank...

Another option is Atomic Aquatics. Every time I've had one of their regs in my mouth I've liked it. I won't buy them myself since I can't get the parts to do my own service, and I think they're somewhat overpriced. But they are very, very nice breathers. The Atomic M1 is particularly nice in that its made of Monel and thus is extremely corrosion resistant without the disadvantages of titanium (unsuitable for high FO2 use as it can literally catch on fire and stupid expensive)

Don't bother with the two-hose style. They are hydrodynamically challenged due to where the reg's diaphram is in comparison to where your lungs are, and in a proper (prone) swimming position cannot deliver air as nicely and cleanly as a single-hose. Its simply not possible.

BTW a VERY GOOD combination is a Scubapro G250 and Mk10+. An older reg, but absolutely something you should consider. Those are readily available used on eBAY and for the right price make an excellent recreational or even technical setup. Price a rebuild into whatever you offer. I ran these as my primary regs in caves and for deco gasses for a couple of years - switched to the DS4/TX50 setup due to the smaller size of the first stage on the Apeks and lack of a swivel (which is a potential failure point, although I'd never had a problem with it.)

The Mk10 is another option (just as good a breather) but the 10+ uses the new seat style that is in the 20 and 25, and as a consequence if they ever stop making parts for the Mk10 you will still be able to get the 10+ serviced, since the HP seat (the only really "custom" piece in there) can be had from a MK20/25 (current production) rebuild kit. Also, the HP O-ring in the MK20 kit will work in a 10+ as well.

[Marvel]

Plastic promotes tremendous cotton mouth problems; I find that I cannot breathe an S600 for more than a half-hour without wanting to gag on the cotton in the back of my throat.

Little trick I discovered to fight the cotton mouth effect is to roll my tongue back in my mouth occasionally. It stimulates the production of saliva & has the added benefit of opening the eustachian tubes.

[intotheblue]

... tank stabilizers built into the "wings".

Heyya ITB,
I read this and am wondering what these are???
I use the Halycon BP, single tank, love it but wondered what the "Stabilizers" were.

I have a slight tilting of the tank (has a 30cf pony attached so explainable) but am using the SS strap adjusters (forgit what they're called) on the inside of the tank straps to keep them from sliding around. Seems like it shouldn't be that way, but only thing I could come up with...

So "Stablilizers??" would that help??

Thanx

frank

Depending on the size wings, and I may not be up on every new modification made to Pioneer, Explorer and etc. wings...

My pioneer wing is flat across the back panel where it attaches to the plate... but I had a STA (single tank adapter) and intended to use it anyhow since I frequently dive singe 121 cu ft PST cyls in the Gulf of Mexico. Newer ones, within the last two or so years, as far as I know, have "stabilizer ribs" formed into the back panel in the center making two parallel "ribs" that help hold the cylinder upright. Using this ribbed panel wing with the Halcyon plate with slots for tank straps, they help hold the cyliner upright. Adding a 30 cf bottle on the back may be more than those "stabilizers" can hold, but if you don't have them on your wings... it might be worth trying. It sound like you have the slotted plate and tank straps. I believe if your "wings" had the "stabilizers", you'd know it. My explorer wing has no slots in the back panel, and is not suitable for use without the traditional single tank adapter and I was happy with my Dive Right back plates. Let me know if I didn't explain this sufficiently... I'm trying to keep it short and get back to work...

B.E.S.T. regards,

ITB...

[intotheblue]

Little trick I discovered to fight the cotton mouth effect is to roll my tongue back in my mouth occasionally. It stimulates the production of saliva & has the added benefit of opening the eustachian tubes.

And it helps keep your tongue limber for other "after dive" purposes...

Seriously, I'll have to try that... (for the saliva production... )... never heard that one after all these... months??? Thanks Marvel... Hope you all have good dives this Holiday!

ITB...

[fbp]

Great, that helps..
I'll check it out at the LDS...
Dive Rite seems to be current on stuff..
I believe I have the simple setup.. A-hem, set up by a DIR shop no less.. ;-))
(I modified it lator)...

But that gives me an idea of what to look for.

thanx much.. I too, with the PST 119 HPs.. great...
appreciate the reply... now off to shopping for more stuff.. heheh.. does it never end...

[intotheblue]

Great, that helps..
I'll check it out at the LDS...
Dive Rite seems to be current on stuff..
I believe I have the simple setup.. A-hem, set up by a DIR shop no less.. ;-))
(I modified it lator)...

But that gives me an idea of what to look for.

thanx much.. I too, with the PST 119 HPs.. great...
appreciate the reply... now off to shopping for more stuff.. heheh.. does it never end...

Good. I believe it's like a small diameter rod sewn in the fabric of the panel on each side of where the back plate is bent (pressed) to allow for the wing nuts to be recessed. My former student got the newer one a couple years ago and has loved it, but she usually dives recreationally with single al. 80's.

Question... Are you using the 30 CF for deco gas? I carry a 40 CF frequently and sling it on the left side from my chest and hip D-rings... DIR style. Then I can remove it if need be, and I use an H valve with dual regs to give me redundency on my back gas. I use this rig for spear fishing, and frequently will deploy my stage to the rig so it won't become tangled while fighting a fish. Because of the spearfishing challenges, I don't want extra gear sticking out behind me (or even in front of me) that could be an entanglement hazard. For wreck or cave... I'd feel the same way. I also like being able to easily detach the extra bottle for handing up to the boat or hang it for attachment in the water instead of having to lift the entire unit up to get into it. I do like the big steel tanks which allow me to dive without a weight belt...

Let me know how you make out...

Oh... and I have pretty much gotten the bleeding down to a slow oooozing... instead of steady spurting...

ITB...

[intotheblue]

Sizing is one of the main reason that I am going to go over to a back plate and wings. I'll be able to customize it to fit me the way that I want it to fit me!!!

I don't know if the "bra" size has anything to do with it, but once again if you don't fit into a standard size mold you might have to do some trial and error. That is why I suggest renting a selection of equipment till you find the prefect fit.

If you're still acquiring your plate/harness... I have a brand new Al. plate that I'd be happy to let go for a reasonable price... of course if you're now in Tennessee, I might have to send it with Bud... . Say hey to the "Possums" for us still back here in the LSS...

ITB...

[blacklatexozdiver]

FWIW - I like the look of a double hose.... never dived with one before though - would be interesting to try

[Walter]

So they did leave the second stage in the back next to the first stage. That means it's no easier to breathe that the older double hose regs. Moving the second stage to the diver's mouth is the only way to get the breathing ease of a single hose regulator.