30 replies to this topic

[SquattingRadishDM]

Hi, thought I'd share the tale of a dive I did recently in St Lucia in the hopes that it may help people plan their dives better.

We were set to do Anse Cochon North, a shallow reef on the north side of Anse Cochon Bay, which is a typical U shaped bay enclosed on its North, East and South sides and open to the sea on its West side. We were on the northern arm of the bay and would be diving west to east, travelling towards the headland.



As I'd done this site earlier in the week I knew it was a gently sloping reef that followed the curve of the shoreline. I thought that once we got past the headland we would encounter a current running either North or South, as we would be outside of the protection offered by the bay. On the last dive we hadnt encoutered this as we were taking things very slow as all on the dive had cameras (and thus frequently stopped and didnt cover alot of ground).

This was to be a guided dive led by a DM from our resort, which I was told was standard practice on the island. She gave the standard breifing and reviewed hand signals, and told us to let her know when we were down to 1000 psi. Having dived the whole week with the resort I figured she would adopt the same policy as the other DMs I had dived with (when 1st person is down to 1000psi, we all ascend). However thinking back she didnt explicitatly say what she intended to do. I remember saying to my buddy (a DM candidate in the UK) that if either of us reached 1000psi before the others we would inform the DM and ascend together.

So in we all went and began swimming west, as I was the only one with a camera the group moved faster and covered more ground. I was frequently checking my compass and looking at the slope of the reef to see when it started turning North, which would indicate we were rounding the headland. 25 mins in the reef started sloping NE to SW and a slight current started running SSW towards us. The DM led us along the same course West and soon because of the curve of the reef and the current we reached our agreed max depth of 60'. The DM looked confused, obviously thinking that she hadnt led us in a straight line but had been miandering deeper down the reef.



Meanwhile I began drawing the above map to try and explain that we should simply head back East into the shelter of the bay and enjoy the remaining 20 mins of bottom time. Decisively she sped off back up the sloping reef against the current with the group in tow. As I checked my compass I realised she was heading North, into what was now a strong current. She must have not realised where on the dive site we were and the fact that as we were now outside the bay the current was not going away. And so we all began kicking into the current to stay out our current depth and made very slow progress. Normally when Im not leading a dive I hang towards the back of the group to get the best view of the other divers, this time I religously made sure I was the last diver so that if some1 got tired and had to give up I could spot them and ascend with my DSMB (I already new I was the only one with a DSMB).

After a good 10 minutes of kicking to move almost nowhere it was time to call the dive. I tried my best to get to the front of the group to show the DM my map and make it clear that this current wasnt going to let up. She just looked confused as I motioned to swim Eastwards and showed her my slate. I signalled to ascend, she checked my air and seeing I had plenty shot me a glance of "erm why?". So Northwards we swam into yonder current like lemmings in dive gear! (Photoshop moment). I would have shot my DSMB and ascended there and then with my buddy, but as I had enough air I decided that I was more help to the other divers in the water. At least there would be more air for the group which surely must be low on air. I resumed my place at the back of the group taking surupticious glances at everyones air guage and quietly fuming with typical English reserve.

5 minutes later someone got down to 900psi, "finally(!), a reason to ascend" I thought. They signalled to that they were low on air, the DM signalled: "OK", "Ascend" and resumed her gruelling workout fighting against the current. The LOA diver looked bemused and stuck with the DM. Fed up with this impromptued workout dive I motioned to my buddy, the 900psi diver and his buddy, that we were all ascending, I shot my DSMB and we all ascended. Sure enough we were well out of the bay and would have faced a good 300+ yards of kicking against the current. The other divers ascended a few minutes later looking thoroughly worn out.

Lessons learnt:

1. Observe the dive site from the surface and identify hazards. In this case it was swimming beyond the headland and out into the strong current.
2. Use a Compass and the contours of the dive site to determine your position. In this case since the slope of the reef followed the shoreline, when the reef was sloping down North to South we were safely inside the bay, once it started sloping down from NE to SW we were leaving the bay.
3. When kicking against a strong current find a way to get out of it, ride it, or abort the dive. In this case getting out of the current would have simply involved heading East and back tracking, failing that the dive should have been aborted.
4. Every Diver should know when and how to ascend, whether as a group or part of a buddy team. It seemed the DM was content to allow buddy teams to ascend as they got low on air, where as I (and most others) assumed that we would ascend as a group. These are simple things that can be sorted out at the breifing (thats what its there for)
5. Dont be a Dive Lemming and follow the DM blindly
6. If you want great calf muscles, kick needlessly into a current for 20 minutes a day

[Basslet]

You weren't acting as a guide or DM or anything right? You were just a tourist? Yet you felt compelled to stay with the group to help out? That's very admirable. If you knew where you were, why didn't you just start swimming back the way you knew you should go? Should you really stay with the group like that? I know that I'm not that good at navigation so I would have stayed with the DM, unless I had a buddy like you and I would have listened to you. This kind of stuff really scares me

[SquattingRadishDM]

No I was just a tourist. I didnt want to swim off the way I knew we should go as the DM specifically said we were diving as one group. Me leaving the group would have invoked the "search for 1 minute then ascend" rule that was discussed in the breifing, essentially ending the dive, which I guess should have been done anyway.

This kind of stuff really scares me

There's no reason to be scared , in a situation like this you can simply ascend, dont feel obliged to stay down if you want to stop the dive. It was only a sense of 'duty' as an off-duty DM that kept me down on this particular dive, otherwise I would have surfaced. I'd advise everyone else in the same situation to terminate the dive.

Edited by SquattingRadishDM, 13 August 2005 - 11:33 AM.

[peterbj7]

Hi Jack! An interesting scenario, one that's all too familiar. I'm careful that it never happens with us here in Belize, but I've experienced almost exactly what you describe in both Egypt and the Maldives. Comes down to having an incompetent dive guide. Whether (s)he is intrinsically inexperienced or incompetent, or whether is simply unfamiliar with the area, is immaterial. If you're going out on a commercially organised trip you have a right to expect that trip to be properly and intelligently organised and conducted.

Let me change your scenario slightly - suppose it was a late afternoon dive with the light already beginning to fail, there was no-one with your experience and good sense but all divers were blindly trusting in their guide, and the guide (and no-one else) had a DSMB ("safety sausage" to our American friends). Then we have all the potential for a seriously dangerous situation - inexperienced and probably nervous divers surfacing way off their intended route, in a strong current, and in failing light with no hi-viz aids available to them. Doesn't bear thinking about.

On one dive in the Maldives a friend and I, both instructors but just out having fun, had deliberately gone well downcurrent and quite deep on a fully-submerged erg. We knew we would have to work to get back but both knew how to do it and had ample air (both us us had pony bottles as backup). As we were ploughing our furrows back to the shelter of the erg (not swimming directly into the current, but taking the route of least effort to sheltered water, which is exactly what you were describing) we saw two other divers from our liveaboard on the other side of the erg, in the strong current and at about 90'. They appeared not to have a care in the world, and we surmised they hadn't yet realised how strong a current they had got into. We were immediately concerned as we were sure they weren't very experienced.

We gesticulated and made noise to attract their attention, and convinced them to turn their dive. As soon as they turned they realised how strong the current was, and started hammering into the current, maintaining their depth and making absolutely no headway. We convinced them to swim down to the erg and out of the current, and swam down to meet them. We found each had less than 1000psi - too little for a controlled return to the surface, let alone getting back to the boat - though neither had been checking their gauges and they were blissfully unaware. We each buddied with one, got them on our pony bottles, and started to swim up the erg towards the boat. At the top of the erg at around 50' we came into the full current again and realised we wouldn't make the boat, so headed skywards as two pairs under two DSMBs. Some way from the boat but clearly visible. The two drained the pony bottles and we had to put them on our octopuses, so that when they got to the surface they would have at least 600psi in their own tanks in case it was rough (it was) and we had a long wait to be picked up.

In this case these two had simply over-reached themselves. I have no doubt that if we hadn't intervened they would have run out of air at least 70' down and far enough from the boat to be completely invisible.

There's another case I may have mentioned before. At Ras Mohammed in Egypt the dive group was in excess of 20, mostly singles not knowing anyone else, with a solitary dive guide who (it turned out) was diving on nitrox 32%. She gave a clear briefing that no-one was to go below her and she wouldn't go below 90', as at one point there was a strong downcurrent starting at around 110'. She obviously couldn't actually control such a large group, as two divers left the group and went deeper than her, but well behind her. Occasionally she did a head count, and when she realised they were missing she saw them well below her, signalled to everyone else to stay put, and headed down to them. She caught up with them at around 170' and hauled them back up. They had no idea how deep they were and also didn't realise their tanks were almost empty. The guide and I each took one on our octopuses and when we got back their cert cards were confiscated. No drama, but it could have been so much worse. The guide was very competent but given an impossible job.

Bottom line - you need a guide who is generally experienced and level headed, who knows the area and its pitfalls, and who is equipped to do the job in hand. Any failure in these ingredients and you have a potential disaster.

[Basslet]

Hi Jack! An interesting scenario, one that's all too familiar. I'm careful that it never happens with us here in Belize, but I've experienced almost exactly what you describe in both Egypt and the Maldives. Comes down to having an incompetent dive guide. Whether (s)he is intrinsically inexperienced or incompetent, or whether is simply unfamiliar with the area, is immaterial. If you're going out on a commercially organised trip you have a right to expect that trip to be properly and intelligently organised and conducted.

Let me change your scenario slightly - suppose it was a late afternoon dive with the light already beginning to fail, there was no-one with your experience and good sense but all divers were blindly trusting in their guide, and the guide (and no-one else) had a DSMB ("safety sausage" to our American friends). Then we have all the potential for a seriously dangerous situation - inexperienced and probably nervous divers surfacing way off their intended route, in a strong current, and in failing light with no hi-viz aids available to them. Doesn't bear thinking about.

On one dive in the Maldives a friend and I, both instructors but just out having fun, had deliberately gone well downcurrent and quite deep on a fully-submerged erg. We knew we would have to work to get back but both knew how to do it and had ample air (both us us had pony bottles as backup). As we were ploughing our furrows back to the shelter of the erg (not swimming directly into the current, but taking the route of least effort to sheltered water, which is exactly what you were describing) we saw two other divers from our liveaboard on the other side of the erg, in the strong current and at about 90'. They appeared not to have a care in the world, and we surmised they hadn't yet realised how strong a current they had got into. We were immediately concerned as we were sure they weren't very experienced.

We gesticulated and made noise to attract their attention, and convinced them to turn their dive. As soon as they turned they realised how strong the current was, and started hammering into the current, maintaining their depth and making absolutely no headway. We convinced them to swim down to the erg and out of the current, and swam down to meet them. We found each had less than 1000psi - too little for a controlled return to the surface, let alone getting back to the boat - though neither had been checking their gauges and they were blissfully unaware. We each buddied with one, got them on our pony bottles, and started to swim up the erg towards the boat. At the top of the erg at around 50' we came into the full current again and realised we wouldn't make the boat, so headed skywards as two pairs under two DSMBs. Some way from the boat but clearly visible. The two drained the pony bottles and we had to put them on our octopuses, so that when they got to the surface they would have at least 600psi in their own tanks in case it was rough (it was) and we had a long wait to be picked up.

In this case these two had simply over-reached themselves. I have no doubt that if we hadn't intervened they would have run out of air at least 70' down and far enough from the boat to be completely invisible.

There's another case I may have mentioned before. At Ras Mohammed in Egypt the dive group was in excess of 20, mostly singles not knowing anyone else, with a solitary dive guide who (it turned out) was diving on nitrox 32%. She gave a clear briefing that no-one was to go below her and she wouldn't go below 90', as at one point there was a strong downcurrent starting at around 110'. She obviously couldn't actually control such a large group, as two divers left the group and went deeper than her, but well behind her. Occasionally she did a head count, and when she realised they were missing she saw them well below her, signalled to everyone else to stay put, and headed down to them. She caught up with them at around 170' and hauled them back up. They had no idea how deep they were and also didn't realise their tanks were almost empty. The guide and I each took one on our octopuses and when we got back their cert cards were confiscated. No drama, but it could have been so much worse. The guide was very competent but given an impossible job.

Bottom line - you need a guide who is generally experienced and level headed, who knows the area and its pitfalls, and who is equipped to do the job in hand. Any failure in these ingredients and you have a potential disaster.

Now this story REALLY scares me.

[peterbj7]

Not meant to scare you Ellen - far from it, as in both cases all was well in the end - but just to reinforce the point that "caveat emptor" applies to who you go out diving with just as much as what hotel you choose to stay in. If you see a mixed and largely inexperienced group of divers on a boat, and either too few dive guides or guides who don't impress you with their enthusiasm, ability and interest in their guests, then you should consider walking away.

[Basslet]

Not meant to scare you Ellen - far from it, as in both cases all was well in the end - but just to reinforce the point that "caveat emptor" applies to who you go out diving with just as much as what hotel you choose to stay in. If you see a mixed and largely inexperienced group of divers on a boat, and either too few dive guides or guides who don't impress you with their enthusiasm, ability and interest in their guests, then you should consider walking away.

Yeah, but I don't think I would even have the ability to judge the situation at this point in my diving career. I know in Roatan, I trust the DM completely.

[SquattingRadishDM]

Ellen, perhaps this thread is a bit unrepresentative of DMs, of all those Ive dived and worked with there are only a handful I have had problems with. The vast majority are highly professional and compentent. The examples discussed here are just 3 stories accumulated over hundreds of dives, and certainly should not make you worry.

Keep sticking with the DM as it is still the safest place to be on a guided dive, although I would recommend finding an experienced dive buddy who can help 'mentor' you on various things so you rely on the DM less and less. Even if its just for a handful of dives on a dive holiday its still gonna help alot. Im sure theres plenty of ppl on here willing to help (I'd offer, but theres the small matter of the Atlantic in the way )

[peterbj7]

Ellen
Jack is quite right. You can usually spot a poor professional a mile off, whether it be a diving DM or anyone else. Just don't have totally blind faith! Word of mouth is often your best guide - try to find someone who's already experienced the product.

[Funewgy]

It was stated that the DM when the divers plunged to 170' was competent but a 20:1 ratio is impossible to manage. Would you suggest asking a dive operator, "What is the ratio of divers to DMs" when doing charter dives? Seems like a reasonable question to ask to me when booking a charter. Is this common practice?

I trust myself, but one dumb @$$...

[Funewgy]

Those of us new to the dive world (I am just under 50 dives) love this type of info from the experts. Great thread!!!

P.S. The dive slate drawing was invaluable to visualizing the experience.

[PerroneFord]

I am in no way, shape or form, a good, or experienced diver. The first story is more worrying to me than either of the other two related here. From reading the stories of others, and from studying the literature I've been presented, I could not FATHOM dropping down 170ft, not knowing it (prior to narcosis), and not looking at my air.

It seems to come back to the very basics of planning your dive, and diving your plan. If these were liveabords, why wasn't there a full dive profile offered in advance? Or is this not standard practice? I couldn't see me getting in the water at this point without having some basic understanding of the dive site, and the intended profile. However, I don't expect to put my life in the hands of a divemaster either. Too many horror stories for that.

From what I am hearing, there also doesn't seem to be a solid procedure for aborting dives in a group either. This is probably more worrisome than anything else I've heard here.

In the case of the first story, had the DM planned the dive including doing a map such as you had done, s/he would have realized the problem far sooner and could have acted appropriately. As it was, they avoided a potentially disastrous outcome by happenstance.

I don't have enough experience at this point to spot a good professional. Until that time, I plan to do very conservative diving, and choose a likeminded buddy who is not afraid to abort a dive as required.

[sunshinediver]

It was stated that the DM when the divers plunged to 170' was competent but a 20:1 ratio is impossible to manage. Would you suggest asking a dive operator, "What is the ratio of divers to DMs" when doing charter dives? Seems like a reasonable question to ask to me when booking a charter. Is this common practice?

I trust myself, but one dumb @$$...

This is such an interesting thread, all 3 stories...and I agree that the drawing is very helpful. When I book a dive somewhere new, I ask other diver friends who they recommend, I check what people are saying about the group on the Internet, then I talk to the dive resort or dive shop before I get there. I ask a number of questions including about ratios.

I think there is an excellent lesson in these stories. The more you learn about diving, the more you realize that you need to have the skills to get yourself- or others- out of a bad situation. Inevitably, on a boat with 20 divers, there will be at least a couple of people who are inexperienced or who simply don't listen to the DM's instructions. Listen to your DM, ask questions beforehand (including about ascending as a group)...remember that the DM usually repeats these instructions several times a day and his/her brain may fill in the gaps of what s/he should have told everyone, keep a level head, and never forget that you are ultimately responsible for your own life.

I agree with what SquattingRadishDM said...in situations like these, you can simply call the dive and ascend. If in doubt, err on the side of safety!

[peterbj7]

Agreed that 20 to one guide is way too many. I had a trip with 10 snorkellers yesterday that my staff wanted to run with one guide, and I insisted on two. In Britain nowadays you are obliged to do a full written risk assessment before any training event, and ensure you are adequately equipped/staffed to handle any eventuality that might reasonably happen. If you don't, even if nothing goes wrong you have committed a serious criminal offence which often carries a 5-figure fine. Even in warm relatively clear Belizean waters I don't think more than 6 divers to a guide is acceptable. In Britain, where 1:8 is common, I don't usually think more than 1:2 is wise. Nor, it is becoming increasingly apparent, does the law.

As a punter, always think "what's wrong with this picture" and "what will happen if any of the most likely problems actually occurs?". Think this way whether you're a dive professional or the one who's paying their wages - the customer.

I take the point that you need experience to recognise some unsavoury situations. But stand back and use commonsense - think "would this be under control if.....?". If your answer is "no" then walk away and find another operator. Expert or no, it's your neck on the line. You don't need to be a qualified gas engineer to know not to stick your head in a gas oven.

[Basslet]

In Roatan, there were maybe 15 divers to one DM. In those diving conditions though, I felt perfectly fine.