30 replies to this topic

[RICHinNC]

I am heading back to Barbados for my second visit and I had a "fun" dive there last time.

There were only 4 divers and the DM and we were suppose to be executing a drift dive. We went in empty so we would sink immediately and bypass the worse of the current....but one diver was very inexperienced and didnt have any training in or understand the concept. So he was swept away...but later found.

On that dive....and a subsequent drift dive.....when we hit dive depth....the DM started finning AGAINST the current. Particulate was flying by and we were all finning like crazy and getting hardly any forward movement. We had be told to advise when we hit 1000, 750 and 500 PSI. I did all that and at 500 all I got was an OK sign. The DM continued the dive. I got her attention and motioned I was calling the dive and started my ascent. She thought I was in trouble and came with me. At the deco she kept trying to find out what was wrong and I just kept holding up my air indicator. By the time I had done what I felt was a minimum deco and surfaced, we were a good two hundred meters from the boat.....with the boat heading away from us.

I told her to cover her ears I was going to blast away on my DiveAlert. She had no clue what one was and wouldnt cover her ears so I cut loose anyway. She immediately covered her ears. I got two good blasts out and my tank went DRY.
Luckily the boat heard it and turned toward us.

We were told we had one more dive and it too would be a drift dive. Me and one other diver pulled the DM aside and had a discussion about what a drift dive was and how they should be conducted, plus, dont give meaningless instructions when you dont plan to follow them. We all got off the boat and all the divers went immediately into the drift mode....and the DM decided to follow. She was planning on fighting the current AGAIN>

The key thing I learned from that experience was something I had read several times on several boards. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF AND DONT BE CATTLE. Since then, if my air gets low and the DM wants to drive on...no problem, I just wont be there. I will never call it that close again.

rich

[SquattingRadishDM]

Interesting story RICHinNC. A worrying re-occuring theme in these stories in inadequate dive briefings.

From what I am hearing, there also doesn't seem to be a solid procedure for aborting dives in a group either. This is probably more worrisome than anything else I've heard here.

This should be covered in the dive briefing. In a DM led dive there are two options, all divers end the dive together, or the diver that wants to abort ascends with their buddy and the dive carries on. Im of the opinion that as DM led dives are (usually) run under the mantra "We all stay together as one group" that when one diver ends their dive, the whole group ascends. However as shown by the stories in this thread you cant assume this will be the case. So if in doubt, ask at the end of the briefing so all the other divers can hear the answer.

I'd advise that if you tell the DM that you want to abort the dive and they do not end the dive promptly, then you should ascend anyway. Ascend with your buddy, observing any safety stops. If the DM is carrying a marker bouy definately ascend near to it, when you get to the surface the boat/surface will be looking for the bouy, also when the rest of the group surfaces they will ascend next to you. If in a strong current make an OK sign round the line to ascend, dont grip or pull on it (!).

We went in empty so we would sink immediately and bypass the worse of the current....but one diver was very inexperienced and didnt have any training in or understand the concept. So he was swept away...but later found.

Negative descents are seldom taught in courses in my experience (PADI), and so it shouldnt be surprising that a diver hasnt heard of or practised them. They can also be stressful to new divers. This should have been picked up at the briefing when the DM asks for a show of hands for any that havnt done it, then explains the concepts/technique until all understand.

IMO the dive briefing is probably the most important safety aspect of any dive. Its where the dive plan is given so all divers know what will happen in the most common scenarios, and are comfortable with the dive they are about to make. It can also be a handy yard stick to measure a DM by. So if there is anything you dont understand or that hasnt been covered, ask. The other divers and probably the DM will be greatfull you did.

[Dive_Girl]

Lessons learnt:

1. Observe the dive site from the surface and identify hazards. In this case it was swimming beyond the headland and out into the strong current.
2. Use a Compass and the contours of the dive site to determine your position. In this case since the slope of the reef followed the shoreline, when the reef was sloping down North to South we were safely inside the bay, once it started sloping down from NE to SW we were leaving the bay.
3. When kicking against a strong current find a way to get out of it, ride it, or abort the dive. In this case getting out of the current would have simply involved heading East and back tracking, failing that the dive should have been aborted.
4. Every Diver should know when and how to ascend, whether as a group or part of a buddy team. It seemed the DM was content to allow buddy teams to ascend as they got low on air, where as I (and most others) assumed that we would ascend as a group. These are simple things that can be sorted out at the breifing (thats what its there for)
5. Dont be a Dive Lemming and follow the DM blindly
6. If you want great calf muscles, kick needlessly into a current for 20 minutes a day

I ran across this great thread again and thought it warranted a refresh. Good points, such as those made above by SquattingRadishDM, have no expiration dates!

[Capn Jack]

I think it is essential to understand the philosophy of the operator and their DMs.

Some places the DMs truly hold your hand and sometimes have two in the water to keep the herd intact. You descend, stay in a group and ascend together - usually at some pre-determined air reserve point.

Others the DMs are "guides" in the sense if you want to follow them, they know where the critters are, but take no responsibility for your dive plan - when you're ready to move on somewhere else, or up - they don't keep you in the herd.

Nothing wrong with either - IMHO - so long as you understand the plan, and as Perrone wisely says - "dive the plan".

Totally different scenario if you've personally hired a DM to be your buddy and guide. Then it's a whole different story.

[Racer184]

On one dive in the Maldives a friend and I, both instructors but just out having fun, had deliberately gone well downcurrent and quite deep on a fully-submerged erg.

I had to look in the Random House Dictionary of the English Language. I knew definition #1, but not #2.

1. erg 1 * 10E-7 joule

2. erg "....any vast area covered with sand, as parts of the Sahara Desert. ..."

[SquattingRadishDM]

OMG a three year old thread... I need new stories!

I guess the original story was about blindly following DM's on "Trust-Me" dives. As someone who was terrified during their first 20 dives I found that diving with a DM/Instructor or mentor is the perfect way to learn, but looking back it was easy to slip into the habit of every dive being a "Trust-Me" dive where I just abdicated the responsibility for my safety to the dive leader. Diving like that is fine to gain confidence underwater that many newly qualified divers need, but in my case it didn't prepare me to dive off my own back without a dive professional. It wasn't until later that I really began to understand how the components fit together to plan and execute a dive - deco, gas management, navigation, equipment... the list is almost never ending.

And really the more I learn, the more I realise that I don't yet know (or in the case of DCS and Hyperbaric Physiology none of us know ). So anyway I guess what I'm saying (and the point of the original story in this thread), is that for me the transition from being a beginner to when I felt truely comfortable underwater was when I could be confident that it was me that was in control of my safety. I'd encourage anyone on a DM led dive to plan the depth/time, deco, navigation, air for themselves. (don't) Trust me

[DivingDeb]

My thoughts here.You are your own best buddy by knowing your limitations & being aware of the changes in a briefing & the actual experience and asking your dive buddy or DM to surface if you feel the dive is going wrong. Carry a slate so if needed you can write what you are concerned about. Don't be afraid to mutiny. When diving in Thailand my dive buddies (which I didn't know but had met on the back to back previous trip) & I knew that surge,low viz,tender pickup=don't surface to close to the rocky island.. Our dive master switched on this part of the liveaboard & I felt wasn't leading a good dive (besides on a previous dive the trip leader told him to followup the rear of the dive grp but he kept swimming to the front & running into divers) we, the group, stopped signaled to the DM to swim away from the island & when he didn't move we swam away signaled him again til he joined us then we safely surfaced. We then informed the tripleader that we wouldn't dive with this DM.
Sometimes I get too comfortable on a dive that I forget to take notice of others that aren't my actual dive buddy
Sometimes I get too selfish & want to finish an hour dive, but that one time be it now or in the past or in the future that I cut short my dive because someone else needs me is the time I feel I have accomplished the best of reasons to dive-to enjoy & share life be it under or above the water
Afterall tomorrow is another day (Sorry Scarlett) I can always dive tomorrow

[Capn Jack]

I hope this doesn't hijack this thread - but I thought of something else....

One of the agencies - CMAS (Confédération Mondiale des Activités Subaquatiques) I believe, has new divers diving with professionals until they hit like 30 dives. Don't quote me on that, but it sounded like a great rule. Either that or I'm still stinging from paying another year of insurance without anything but a few beers to show for it....

So - what would you tell your child
1. "Four Dives and you're ready for anything" - or
2. "Hire a pro to be your buddy for your first 20 or 30 dives" - or
3. "Ignore Capn Jack, he's just a drunk DM looking for handouts"

[georoc01]

I hope this doesn't hijack this thread - but I thought of something else....

One of the agencies - CMAS (Confédération Mondiale des Activités Subaquatiques) I believe, has new divers diving with professionals until they hit like 30 dives. Don't quote me on that, but it sounded like a great rule. Either that or I'm still stinging from paying another year of insurance without anything but a few beers to show for it....

So - what would you tell your child
1. "Four Dives and you're ready for anything" - or
2. "Hire a pro to be your buddy for your first 20 or 30 dives" - or
3. "Ignore Capn Jack, he's just a drunk DM looking for handouts"

I think it depends on what enviroments you are diving in. What I learned during open water was to hire a pro when diving an enviroment you are unfamiliar with. That said, I thought the DM program offered on the SingleDivers trips was invaluable in improving my diving and gave me an assurance that I certainly could use at the time.

There is some validity to this, just as how long from when you get your drivers license should you drive a car by yourself? It takes experience to have the basic skills become 2nd nature to the point where you become much more aware your surroundings and are ready to become a more independent diver.

[hambergler]

I"ve only ever been on one trip where we were told to deflate, jump in head first, and head for the bottom--it was on a boat out of Riviera Beach FLA almost 20 years ago. Seas were 4 feet plus or minus, and it was a true cattle boat dive; half the boat was an OW class, and the rest were mostly AOW divers/bug hunters. The OW class was to get in first and head for the shallow bottom for skill reviews, and for the most part they did it right; however, one guy could not get negative, and the boat circled two times trying to get him in (he spent the rest of the trip with his head in a bucket--and oh, the Diesel fumes...). They dropped the bug hunters, then the rest of us got in. One tank, do it again, then head back and oh, by the way, another boat has broken down and could you tie up and tow it back into port too?? I think I was the only person who didn't hurl during this four hour ordeal, but the extra Dramamine I took after the first dive had me feeling fuzzy for days...

On most of these FLA dives, the DM was there observing--you plan your dive based on the briefing, then dive the plan, with the DM hovering around. The Spree trips I've been on are similar, but each buddy team is responsible for their profile after a detailed briefing, and the DMs usually stay on the boat checking people off and on. Cozumel and Provo drift-dive trips have been more newbie-oriented, with DMs handholding the group the entire dive. Certain destinations attract certain levels of experience, and DMs tend to react according to their average client base (I guess). That being said, it seems the occasional incompetent DM slips through (as in any profession). I think part of the problem is that most people inherently cede authority to someone who seems to be in charge, and will most times follow them without question (what was that famous study in the 60s?).

Being a baby DM, I hope I don't become THAT story...

[peterbj7]

we were told to ..... jump in head first

I hope not!

An erg in a diving sense, certainly as applied in the Maldives, is an undersea mount that doesn't quite breach the surface. Not sure what the strict definition is, but in practice that's what it is.

The British Sub-Aqua Club (BSAC), for which I'm also an instructor, was a co-founder of CMAS and has a similar attitude to new divers. It really is crazy that after just four dives people are sanctioned to go out with just another similarly inexperienced person. A total recipe for disaster if the divers really think they know how to dive.

Edited by peterbj7, 05 August 2008 - 09:34 PM.

[secretsea18]

So - what would you tell your child
1. "Four Dives and you're ready for anything" - or
2. "Hire a pro to be your buddy for your first 20 or 30 dives" - or
3. "Ignore Capn Jack, he's just a drunk DM looking for handouts"

Knowing you Mark, I would have to say that #3 is the most accurate response!!!!

[Dive_Girl]

So - what would you tell your child
1. "Four Dives and you're ready for anything" - or
2. "Hire a pro to be your buddy for your first 20 or 30 dives" - or
3. "Ignore Capn Jack, he's just a drunk DM looking for handouts"

Knowing you Mark, I would have to say that #3 is the most accurate response!!!!

A beer and a shot of tequila if I am not mistaken! Gotta like the Capn Jack style! He's the James Bond of diving!

back to our regular thread topic....