19 replies to this topic

[Trimix2dive]

Me and a bud had a small debate on cigarettes, lung cancer, and second hand smoke last night. Pretty one sided debate but..................

whats your opinion on who should pay for those that smoke - your health and theirs?

[Mishelle]

Sounds more like a statement than a question.

[Seahorsewrangler]

Simply put...I believe in responsibilty for one's own actions..however society doesn't hold everyone to that line of thinking....

[Desert_Diver]

Get the RAW data before you make any decisions, and not the pre-digested pap that's spewed by all of the 'health' organizations in the USA. Some of the folks in Europe are more honest about their statistics. I smoke, and I noticed *nobody* I'd ever known or met had more problems than an occasional cough, so I researched it. The US Surgeon General and friends are lying with numbers. What a shock!

Did you know that the research several years ago about 'second-hand smoke' was retracted a few months after it was published? Seems they severely skewed the data. Oops, another big shock. Common sense should have told you that what I breathe *frequently* is between 10 to 50 times stronger than what you get *occasionally*. We'll have a short math test at the end of the period.

As far as your increased medical costs, look at all of the massively overweight Americans, the ones way off the BMI chart. They cost all of us around 30 times as much as ALL illnesses related to smoking, yet you don't see the Surgeon General posting warnings on Twinkie packages! If they tell you 'medical costs related to smoking are XXX', ask what the medical costs for bad lifestyles are in total. You'll be amazed, if they're honest. However, it's not polite to pick on someone for being overweight, so let's nag somewhere else....

Cardiologists have known for a while that trans-fatty acids are *really* bad for you, but virtually nothing's being done about it. It's almost impossible to buy anything in a grocery store that's not stuffed with 'hydrogenated vegatable oil' or any of it's other misleading names. That's something that truly effects ALL of us. You can pretty well count on it cutting at least 5 years off of your lifespan, and eating only fresh-cooked food in a restaraunt won't save you (look at their ingredients...)

Don't get me wrong, I know smoking's not good for us (statistically), but please hunt down some REAL info about the risks and costs before you rip us a new one, OK? I have friends in dire shape 'cos they choose to over-eat, and a *bunch* of folks at work in similar condition. How many people do you know with problems due to smoking? (that's the math test I mentioned earlier). I don't know a single soul, and only heard of a couple of people third-hand. I ask that question a lot.

It's not hard to find out the truth, if you're interested, and it's a heckuva lot better than a wild guess. Statistics vary wildly among the different countries, but some of 'em match observed reality better than what you get in THIS country.

[Latitude Adjustment]

Well the Indians couldn't wipe us out with bows and arrows so they are trying chemical warfare by introducing us to tobaco.

[Marvel]

I once had someone- complete stranger- lecturing me on a boat about how smoking effects my SAC rate. I just bit my tongue. You see, this woman was at least 75-100 pounds overweight but heaven forbid anyone should take her to task about that.........

[drbill]

Smokers who show respect for others by keeping a reasonable distance have every right to kill themselves. However, if someone sits down next to me and lights up, I'll wack them with my second-hand club.

Personally, I think the companies that manufacture cigarettes should pay. They are selling a product with known and malicious "defects..." addiction and death. I was a smoker for several years in my youth and I know how addictive cigarettes can be. I understand why those who are addicted continue smoking. I don't understand why the US Govt allows companies to continue to make and sell an addictive toxin.

Companies that make baby cribs with bars too wide or toys that a child might choke on are asked to cease sales until they remedy the problem. Why are tobacco companies not held to the same standard?

Edited by drbill, 21 August 2005 - 08:36 AM.

[RICHinNC]

Im afraid I have to disagree with you Drbill....and here is why.

For years now on each pack of cigs there is a very clear warning. Smoke.... pay the consequences.

Making the cig companies pay only furthers a trend that I personally think is much worse and that is the lack of accepting personal responsibility for our actions.

I had a bad childhood, I ate the wrong veggies growing up, I ate too many Twinkies.....so what? Take responsibility for your actions. So if a smoker comes up now and says I have cancer because I have been smoking for ten years....then partner...it sucks to be you,,,,,,but,,,,,,the warning was on there ten years ago.

Not saying it is easy to quit smoking, but it is def not impossible. But dont blame others. Until the gov totally bans cigs....they are legal and in my mind a personal responsibility.

But I do agree that each is entitled to their on points of view.

Oh....and how can the cig companies get away with it??? Simple...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

We have the best gov $$$$ can buy.

rich

[DandyDon]

I do try to be a courteous smoker. I'll set up close the stern of the boat if possible so I won't need to ask anyone to move while I sit there to enjoy my after dive smoke. Or while moored, move to the leeward, middle of the boat to be out of the way for divers exiting the water. I try...

I remember a Cozumel trip, on a cramped cattle boat out of Casa Del Mar (nice hotel, hated their boats) - the group sponsor in a passive aggressive move got two ladies to take the space I'd been using at the stern, then told me to put out my smoke so it wouldn't bother them. Damn!

I protested - as their actions had intentionally put them in smokes way, plus the diesel fumes, so why should I worry? I had done my part in trying to be courteous, so it was no up to them to move their (fat) butts out of the smoking area. Didn't happen, and rather than incur additional grief that could spread - I gave it.

Then, a DM that one of the gals was bopping lit up.

On a recent trip, I moved to the stern as the boat took us to the hotel, lit up - heard the grief, and set it straight then: "This is the smoking area. If you chose to sit here, I will assume that you don't mind. If you do, don't sit at the stern. If you have any problems, it's always more comfortable midboat - seasickness, whatever." Yeah, most of them were fatter than I have ever been, some morbidly so.

Some people...

Oh, if there are any increased social costs to smoking, they are offset by the horrid taxes on tobacco, and the shorter lifespans of the smokers that yield more old age benefits to those who live long.

[CaliD]

Here's the problem with a "smoking section". It's a beautiful evening outside I'm at a great restaurant and I know if I want to sit on the patio I run the risk of sitting near a someone smoking. And if I choose to sit on the patio to enjoy the beautiful evening it's my fault I'm in the smoking section. Is it the non-smokers fault they end up in the "smoking section" at any outside area such as a fair, amusement park, zoo, or any of our outdoor markets. Not to mention the cigarette the which often end up on the ground, and in our beautiful water sources, or out the window of a car which then starts brush fires.

Unfortunately smoke travels, it does not just stay within the confines of the smoker. Drinking and driving is illegal because you can cause harm to others, as well as yourself. The affects of drinking are not confined to the consumer if the consumer chooses to drive. I'm not saying smoking should be made illegal, I am saying it should be limited to where only the smoker is affected. If that means you can only smoke at home then so be it.

[DandyDon]

Here's the problem with a "smoking section". It's a beautiful evening outside I'm at a great restaurant and I know if I want to sit on the patio I run the risk of sitting near a someone smoking. And if I choose to sit on the patio to enjoy the beautiful evening it's my fault I'm in the smoking section. Is it the non-smokers fault they end up in the "smoking section" at any outside area such as  a fair, amusement park, zoo, or any of our outdoor markets. Not to mention the cigarette the which often end up on the ground, and in our beautiful water sources,  or out the window of a car which then starts brush fires.

Unfortunately smoke travels, it does not just stay within the confines of the smoker. Drinking and driving is illegal because you can cause harm to others, as well as yourself. The affects of drinking are not confined to the consumer if the consumer chooses to drive. I'm not saying smoking should be made illegal, I am saying it should be limited to where only the smoker is affected. If that means you can only smoke at home then so be it.

THERE YA GO...!!

Ya got outdoors to smoke, and someone still gripes.

Any area that is so congested that a breeze won't move the smoke away quickly is going to give you a lot more air problems than smoke is going to offer. California is so funny - worst air in the west, so they pick on smokers more, even tho we had nothing to do with their bad air.

Some people litter, but if smoking is involved - we are all guilty!

BTW, I never throw my butts. I'll field-strip the used smoke, put the filter in a pocket or something, and when I see a trashcan, dispose appropriately.

Oh yeah, we get compared to drunk drivers.

Jeeze...

Edited by DandyDon, 21 August 2005 - 11:43 AM.

[CaptSaaz]

If you want to smoke, go ahead, it's your life. But also, your medical insurance premiums should be double what everyone else pays and please, eat the filters when your done instead of tossing them on the ground as though the earth is your garbage pail.

This has been an unpaid, obnoxious opinion by yours truly.

[Cold_H2O]

Ya got outdoors to smoke, and someone still gripes. 

I will admit as a non smoker.. I love to sit outside on those really nice days we get here in Seattle.

Just the other week I was headed to my Nitrox cert class. I had an hour till my class started. I thought I would get some dinner and study just a bit. The day was beautiful so I thought I would sit outside. Before I could finish my sandwich I was surrounded by 7 smokers. All of them enjoying their smokes. Everyone was having a great time but me. When I first sat down noone was outside. I had to get up and go inside to finish my dinner.

I agree you should be able to do what you want with you life. Bonus of being an American (thank you to our wonderful soldiers that keep it that way) and being an adult.

My only issue is when your actions ruin it for me. I don't care if you smoke but why should I not be able to also sit outside and enjoy the day?

Iam not bashing the smokers, but FYI it goes both ways....

Edited by gis_gal, 21 August 2005 - 04:48 PM.

[Trimix2dive]

I once had someone- complete stranger- lecturing me on a boat about how smoking effects my SAC rate. I just bit my tongue. You see, this woman was at least 75-100 pounds overweight but heaven forbid anyone should take her to task about that.........

She was probably a closet smoker. After all , her other situation is "genetic" right.

[hnladue]

Hey!! That's not nice!! Being FAT is genetic. Until you've been there, don't comment on it.