78 replies to this topic

[scubahoney]

I am studying marine biology and possibly biospeleology (say that 5 times fast)/cave biology. I am hoping to study biology and behavior in anchialine caves and blue holes in the future. Could someone please tell me what route to take to get my booty in the right direction (as far as getting the diving experience I need)? I know I need the certs and all, but how do I get what I really need to know (on top of the classes)?

[drbill]

I'm impressed! Can't offer any advice here since my biological research involves satellite imaging of kelp beds and integration of the resulting maps into a GIS to study persistence. That's about as far from caves as you can get (and I like it that way).

Good luck with your studies... interesting focus.

Dr. Bill

[Walter]

First, decide if you really want to dive caves. Read Down to a Sunless Sea by David Poyer. If that doesn't freak you out, go for it.

What experience/certifications do you have now? Before you start toward a destination, you must first determine your starting position.

[scubahoney]

Walter, I am a new diver, AOW cert after Athens. And I know its going to take lots and lots of experience (and nerve) to even begin cave diving. I am more interested in what to do not where to go. Like following a mentor (but who), books to read, certain specialties or certs to get. I'll have to look into that article..or is it a book? I'm not freaked out about it, and I have read several pieces already. Also, there is a prof. at TX A&M Galveston that specializes in just what I am doing, but I want to get my feet in the water (pun intended) before I head out there in a few months.

[Diverbrian]

Walter, I am a new diver, AOW cert after Athens. And I know its going to take lots and lots of experience (and nerve) to even begin cave diving. I am more interested in what to do not where to go. Like following a mentor (but who), books to read, certain specialties or certs to get. I'll have to look into that article..or is it a book? I'm not freaked out about it, and I have read several pieces already. Also, there is a prof. at TX A&M Galveston that specializes in just what I am doing, but I want to get my feet in the water (pun intended) before I head out there in a few months.

SH,

If you know that caving is in your future and want to look at specific things NOT to do and practice, check out Sheck Exley's accident analysis book (Blueprint for Survival). You will also need to find instructors that teach under the concept that "underwater problems should be solved underwater". Many recreational instructors tend to teach that the "surface is your friend" when things go poorly, and that can cause trouble in an overhead environment (hard or soft overhead).

Just my humble opinion here,

Good luck,

Brian

[scubahoney]

Good advice, thanks Brian.

[DivingGal]

Can't help you out with "what steps", but since you started the thread,

My question, somewhat related is:

Who would you recommend to teach Cavern / Intro to Cave?

[Diverbrian]

Can't help you out with "what steps", but since you started the thread,

My question, somewhat related is:

Who would you recommend to teach Cavern / Intro to Cave?

Personally, most of the "hard" overhead diving up where I live is wreck penetration. Most of our divers that do caverns/cave to my knowledge go to Central Florida to take the courses. I am sure that ScubaHoney will be able to find someone through her professor.

Smurf, if you want referrals in this field, I am sure that the instructors here have some ideas. I know that Walter knows some people for this. We have Capt. Ron, who I would think has some "in's" with that community and a few others. When we grow enough, I will be rounding out my knowledge a little with the "hard-core wreck divers" too. Many of them happen to be cave divers as well.

In other words, stay tuned... it won't be long before SD.com has it's own group of single cave/ wreck penetration divers.

[DivingGal]

Personally, most of the "hard" overhead diving up where I live is wreck penetration. Most of our divers that do caverns/cave to my knowledge go to Central Florida to take the courses.

I was figuring I would travel to FL for the training. As with any other kind, I prefer to get referrals to instructors from students with positive reviews... sort of reference checks.

There isn't that many caves/caverns up here. I know of only a couple of sites. Both, from what I have heard are advanced.

I'll wait ... I'm in no hurry

[Coo's Toe]

Brian recommended "Blueprint for Survival" by Sheck Exley. I'll second that recommendation, and add one for "Caverns Measureless to Man", which is longer and more of a novel format. Aafter you read that, you'll either be scared away forever or you'll know you have the cave diving bug for sure. "Caverns" is a good read that shows a bit of the history of cave diving, and how the accident analysis in BFS came to be in the first place.

As far as training goes... where do I start? I'll let you know that I am not cave trained yet, but I'm headed that way, and I've been asking questions like yours for a while now. I plan on doing my cave training through GUE, and rather than starting in Florida, I'll probably head to Akumel, Mexico, where the caves are shallower and the flow isn't as great. Florida would be my choice for more advanced cave classes. Cave diving is a niche in the diving world where I feel the choice of instructors is critical, shop around carefully, talk to other cavers and get recommendations long before you plan on scheduling the class. I would be really skeptical of taking one of the "cavern specialty" courses through the recreational agencies, you should start with an agency that offers the full range of training, like GUE or NASCDS, ect.

Your gear is going to need to be cave ready. If you've already invested in a set of dive gear, start budgeting money for changes to your setup along with your training fund. Cave/technical type gear is becoming more popular outside of the caves recently as people discover how well it works in a variety of environments, but you can't expect your open water gear to transfer as easily into the caves. You'll need to have a 5-7 hose on your primary regulator, a short hose on your backup, which you'll wear on a bungee necklace under your chin. You'll need to move into a backplate/wings. If you are serious about caving, then you'll probably be looking at double tanks in the future. Split fins aren't going to work in the caves, you'll need paddles like the Jetfins, Turtles, or Quattros. Streamlining is the key in cave gear. ( Cave gear has certainly had a streamlining effect on my wallet. )

Skills you can start focusing on before you train? Kicking skills, bouyancy skills, and emergency skills like sharing air, dealing with mask problems, etc. The flutter kick so many OW divers prefer can get you killed in a silty cave environment. You need to learn the frog, modified frog, and modified flutter, kicks that direct the thrust up and away from the bottom ( and these kicks are all I do in open water, they are great for preserving the visibility at any dive site ). Your buoyancy skills need to be the best of the best in a cave. Crashing into the floor or getting stuck on the ceiling are not good options. So practice controlling your buoyancy religiously until it's second nature. Do drills on your ascents and descents until you can stop and hover a foot above the bottom without disturbing the bottom, or stop at precise levels in the water on your ascent without losing control and popping to the surface. This can be tricky in the last 20 feet of water, which is a good depth to practice. Try hovering horizontally in one spot without moving. You'll quickly discover that your hands always try to move, or you're still kicking a bit, and you'd just never noticed it before. If you can remain motionless, then you're finally starting to get it dialed in. Those basic skills we had to do in OW class need to be second nature, so practice removing and replacing your mask often. If you can find a willing buddy, practice swimming for a distance while sharing air.

Hopefully these suggestions will get you started thinking in the right direction. Diving in caves is serious risk, so don't go into it with a casual attitude.

[DivingGal]

Brian recommended "Blueprint for Survival" by Sheck Exley. I'll second that recommendation, and add one for "Caverns Measureless to Man"

Have read the second, not the first.

... rather than starting in Florida, I'll probably head to Akumel, Mexico, where the caves are shallower and the flow isn't as great.

Interesting, hadn't thought of Mexico.

I would be really skeptical of taking one of the "cavern specialty" courses through the recreational agencies, you should start with an agency that offers the full range of training, like GUE or NASCDS, ect.

Had not considered the typical "recreation" agencies (eg PADI, NAUI etc) to do this training

...you can't expect your open water gear to transfer as easily into the caves. You'll need to have a 5-7 hose on your primary regulator, a short hose on your backup, which you'll wear on a bungee necklace under your chin. You'll need to move into a backplate/wings. If you are serious about caving, then you'll probably be looking at double tanks in the future. Split fins aren't going to work in the caves, you'll need paddles like the Jetfins, Turtles, or Quattros. Streamlining is the key in cave gear.

Got 'em , have my recreational stuff for when I'm assisting with students.

( Cave gear has certainly had a streamlining effect on my wallet. )

Boy DO I know that!

Skills you can start focusing on before you train? Kicking skills, bouyancy skills, and emergency skills like sharing air, dealing with mask problems, ..... (kicks) frog, modified frog, and modified flutter,

Do s-drills (and other practising) all the time with buddies who know what's it's all about.

This can be tricky in the last 20 feet of water, which is a good depth to practice.

this is where I have the most issues... sigh (hence the desire for the additional training.

Diving in caves is serious risk, so don't go into it with a casual attitude.

Totally agree, that's why all the questions.

[DivingGal]

Oh and my apologies to scubahoney for sort of hijacking her thread....

[Coo's Toe]

Sweeeeeeeeeet!!!

Sounds like you're on the right track, buddy. I don't think Scubahoney will mind the hijack, since we're discussing what she wanted to know anyway.

All I can tell you is keep practicing those skills. The precision buoyancy in the shallows has taken me time to perfect. Nothing like time in the water to get you dialed, so dive dive dive, and just for good measure, dive some more. It'll happen, trust me, but it's not instant gratification, there's some work involved.

"Blueprint for Survival" is more of a pamphlet than a book. A lot of the info is actually covered in "Caverns MTM", and Sheck's blueprint forms the basis of all the modern cave training texts. I'll mail you my copy if you PM me with an address and promise to send it back.

Definately consider training in Mexico, if you have to travel to cave country anyway.

I took the DIR-F class through GUE ( Global Underwater Explorers ) and would highly recommend taking it if you want to go on to caving. It'll really get you dialed in on the skills you'll need going into more advanced environments. If you take any GUE cave classes, it'll be required as a prerequisite, and if you train with any other agency ( NASCDS, IANTD, et al ), it'll only make your classes easier since you'll be able to focus on new cave skills and not struggling to overcome problems with basic stuff like buoyancy, trim, mask skills, etc. It was definately worth the money I paid to take the class, and I feel a lot more prepared for the cave classes I want to take when my wallet isn't as streamlined as it is right now.

[scubahoney]

It's all good.

[DivingGal]

It's all good.

Yee-haw, thanks girl... please join me in the asking of all those "unique" questions (aka dumb only because we don't know the answer yet)