41 replies to this topic

[Diverbrian]

Kamala, the benefits of enriched air have been known for a LONG time. The military and commercial divers have been enjoying the benefits for more than 50 years. If you mean why did THEY start doing it, well simple. It was beacause the workers or military divers could dive longer and do more work in relative safety. If you mean how did it come to pass that recreational divers were using it, thank NOAA for experimenting and bringing it to the forefront. They (amongst others) took away the voodoo effects of breathing enriched air.

We talked a lot about this in my Adv. Nitrox class but to be honest, I was far more interested in learning the gas laws. I'd suggest picking up a copy of the NOAA diving manual, and Kevin Gurr's book if you want to delve further into this stuff.

Thanks Perrone that is good information. Curious if they started using nitrox to work longer were they limited by the MOD limitations?

One thing... The British and US military lost a fair portion of their divers (UDT types) to ox tox because of the work involved in laying mines and such. This was a "hazard of the job" during WWII.

[PerroneFord]

The Italians pioneered this UDT stuff from what I remember from the BUD/S books. Were they on open circut or rebreathers I wonder.

[Diverbrian]

The Italians pioneered this UDT stuff from what I remember from the BUD/S books. Were they on open circut or rebreathers I wonder.

As the Brits copied the Italians in this field, I would bet that they were on oxygen rebreathers as well.

[Dennis]

But why did anyone start using Nitrox in the first place?

Kamala,

I took the class for some additional training, to lower my nitrogen loading for multiple day, multiple dive situations, and for those dives that I want more bottom time and less surface interval between dives. For what other reason would you take training?

[Diverbrian]

But why did anyone start using Nitrox in the first place?

Kamala,

I took the class for some additional training, to lower my nitrogen loading for multiple day, multiple dive situations, and for those dives that I want more bottom time and less surface interval between dives. For what other reason would you take training?

Dennis,

She is talking about history. Why would someone come up with the idea of diving air with a higher percentage of oxygen and what was the original purpose?

The benefits of nitrox in this day and age are well known. But back in the forties and fifties, they weren't as obvious to those outside of commercial or military diving. So how did we get from there to now?

[ereediver]

Kamala, asking loaded questions are we ? Now it will be a long time before I get the answer.

[TraceMalin]

I'll answer briefly. Nitrox was first used as a balloonist's gas. Helium was the gas which people knew would allow for deeper diving, but the cost was prohibitive until it was discovered in large pockets underground in Texas. Then, it became more widely used for commercial diving, military and scientific applications. Nitrox wasn't initially used with any real known benefit as a primary breathing gas, but rather as a deco gas. Brett Gilliam (founder of TDI) began experimenting with it as a deco gas while working for the U.S. Navy off St. Croix. Brian should know what he was filming.

Questions:

1) What project was Gilliam working on for the US Navy?
2) What was he and his team filming?
3) What major problem was his dive team facing that caused him to want to use nitrox?
4) What less well known deep diving record does Gilliam have other than his known deep air record that was directly related to the project?

Trace

[6Gill]

Trace,

1)evaluatinging anti submarine warfare detection systems
2)filming the hydrophones in active operation
3)oceanic white tip sharks
4)not sure on this one,he was doing some Heliox stuff (all his records past tense now)

Some other trivia NOAA set up NOAA 1(32%) and NOAA 2(36%) as alot of their diving was done at shallower depth(reefs) and this gave them more bottom time.It was out of this that Nitrox moved into the mainstream fighting and clawing againts the mainstream who fought to keep it in the basement.Belive it or not but alot of people in the indusrty fought againt it even some that embrace it now

The early UDT used O2 rebreathers...most of thrir work was shallow so bubbles were bad.

trivia question time...
1)Helium use in diving was developed by the USN...why was no one else experimenting with helium(hint-Hindinburg)
2)name a couple other inert gases that have been tried...extra worthless bounus points for stating why they haven't replaced helium.

Eric

[Scott]

Ok now I'm really confused...

how in the world do dogs have anything to do with nitrox??? :wacko:

I think that is a question only the Navy could answer...maybe.

But the key word in Nitrox training and selling Nitrox classes is "SAFETY." You are really forced to plan your dive and diving your plan in EANx class. I can not speak highly enough of the value. I know that as a PADI instructor it is the first class that I really discuss fatality.

Oxygen toxicity is a nasty thing; much nastier than Nitrogen Narcosis.

Keep in mind, though, that if your instructor is anything like me (s)he will have you figure in reduced o2%'s for your profiles as well. If your instructor is cave, wreck or deep inclined you will probably get a better class with a good stress on theory.

At least that has been my experience. Your milage may vary.

Enjoy! Be Safe and Keep WET!
-Scott

[Diverbrian]

Trace,

1)evaluatinging anti submarine warfare detection systems
2)filming the hydrophones in active operation
3)oceanic white tip sharks
4)not sure on this one,he was doing some Heliox stuff (all his records past tense now)

Some other trivia NOAA set up NOAA 1(32%) and NOAA 2(36%) as alot of their diving was done at shallower depth(reefs) and this gave them more bottom time.It was out of this that Nitrox moved into the mainstream fighting and clawing againts the mainstream who fought to keep it in the basement.Belive it or not but alot of people in the indusrty fought againt it even some that embrace it now

The early UDT used O2 rebreathers...most of thrir work was shallow so bubbles were bad.

trivia question time...
1)Helium use in diving was developed by the USN...why was no one else experimenting with helium(hint-Hindinburg)
2)name a couple other inert gases that have been tried...extra worthless bounus points for stating why they haven't replaced helium.

Eric

I stayed out of the question as I did some "war games" in that area. The gov't loved it for geographical reasons. We didn't get to enjoy the water .

On your other questions:

1) One of the other gases being played with was hydrogen. I would guess that after people saw the bad points of hydrogen, they didn't want to play with modifying basic air.

2) a) hydrogen: It's highly explosive and had issues with causing hallucinations.
b) neon: expensive, not good on the brain (similar effects to High Pressure Nervous Syndrome)
c) argon: turns out to be more narcotic than nitrogen

[TraceMalin]

Trace,

1)evaluatinging anti submarine warfare detection systems
2)filming the hydrophones in active operation
3)oceanic white tip sharks
4)not sure on this one,he was doing some Heliox stuff (all his records past tense now)

Some other trivia NOAA set up NOAA 1(32%) and NOAA 2(36%) as alot of their diving was done at shallower depth(reefs) and this gave them more bottom time.It was out of this that Nitrox moved into the mainstream fighting and clawing againts the mainstream who fought to keep it in the basement.Belive it or not but alot of people in the indusrty fought againt it even some that embrace it now

The early UDT used O2 rebreathers...most of thrir work was shallow so bubbles were bad.

trivia question time...
1)Helium use in diving was developed by the USN...why was no one else experimenting with helium(hint-Hindinburg)
2)name a couple other inert gases that have been tried...extra worthless bounus points for stating why they haven't replaced helium.

Eric

Eric,

You're correct with your answers except #4. Gilliam was involved in the deepest shark attack recorded at 230 fsw off Cane Bay, St. Croix in 1972 when his buddy Rodney Temple was killed by oceanic white tips. The attack began at 230 fsw and the divers ended up at 270 - 300 fsw deep. Temple died while Gilliam was towing him as the sharks struck repeatedly. Gilliam ran out of gas and gave Temple an OOG signal to which he received no response. Temple had stopped screaming and his body was limp so Gilliam assumed he was already dead. Gilliam tried to reach Temple's back up regulator, but couldn't because the sharks struck Temple's body again. Gilliam ditched Temple's weights and inflated his BC just as the sharks pulled the body away. Gilliam then made an emergency ascent. I'm not sure, but this may still be the deepest shark attack on record.

Trace

[6Gill]

Hi Trace,
Didn't realize both events were tied in togather...here is hoping that record will stand.

As Trace stated the world's helium supply is a by-product of the Texas gas industry.Airships were military and its definitly advantages in using gas that is inert when people are shooting at you . The US government made helium a controled good,so in effect no one else had a decent scorce and was forced to use hydrogen
COMEX was experimenting into the early 80 with hydrogen in place of helium(bet the no smoking policy was strict) but found no advantage for a number of reasons plus airships aren't that common in military applications

Eric