26 replies to this topic

[normblitch]

Eric,

Things done unconsciously happen HERE, as WELL!

As I age, I'm finding less mobility in my left hand, and have "up-sized" ALL my bolt-snaps accordingly...I've even considered going to the non-approved but often-seen cross-chest CPG rigging to the right chest D... Perrone would prolly chastize me...

Norm

Hi Norm,
Yes the bottles are kept on the left side.I had to stop and think about the SPG boltsnap,it was something I do without thinking(along with alot of other things if you listen to those around me).I keep it at the bottom of the stack,to me the exact placement isn't as important as doing it the same each time.

Eric

[normblitch]

Howard,

Does the SW/FW difference ever cause Sudden High Intensity Training events?? I would think you would want to do the SAME THING on ALL DIVES, no?? Also, the trick way you use the bottom strap to control the bottle nestling would need to be readjusted every genre switch as well..???

Norm

With caving, you put the rich mix on the outside so that you can drop it first. With ocean diving, I suppose you could to it either way. However, I would (and everyone else I have ever seen does) put the first mix on the outside and O2 on the inside.

I know it seems like there would never be enough room for everything. However, it works out pretty well in the end. You just have to make the tail/lower clip shorter on the inside bottle so that the outside bottle can ride along with it.

[normblitch]

From where I sit, few folks in N FL use steel stages with the possible exception of those tiny steelies (20-30) for EAN100...

Re planning... is this the purpose for all the differing scenarios printed out from deco software??

Norm

I am told that the steel is still good for cave where it will get dropped off as Norm discusses. It will lie there real nicely until I get back.

It involves planning, planning, and yes... more planning.

[6Gill]

Hi Norm,
Because of drygloves along with ease of handeling most of us use the larger(1 1/8") ring boltsnaps for the SPG and stage/deco bottles.When handing off the deco/stage the donater holds the clip portion(top clip in right hand) and the donatee hooks a finger through the ring with right hand.This leaves the left hand to adjust for the bouancy change when giving up or reciving the tank.
As to adjusting the lower tail on the deco/stage bottle all that is done is to loop it around rope 'handle'.This will shorten it but is easy to re-lengthen.
The way the bottles get stacked is determined by the sequence of use(in the cave scenerio sequence of use would involve dropping bottles off).This is why clear labling is important and we go through the step of following the hose back to confirm the right tank along with a visual from a team member.The stacking sequence is more of an ease of use issue and not considered a primary or secondary way of confirming contents.

Eric

[normblitch]

Great Explanations!

Even though I'm currently only carrying one pony at a time, I think I'll start adding the follow the hose to the 1st stage step to my protocol NOW!

Norm

Hi Norm,
Because of drygloves along with ease of handeling most of us use the larger(1 1/8") ring boltsnaps for the SPG and stage/deco bottles.When handing off the deco/stage the donater holds the clip portion(top clip in right hand) and the donatee hooks a finger through the ring with right hand.This leaves the left hand to adjust for the bouancy change when giving up or reciving the tank.
As to adjusting the lower tail on the deco/stage bottle all that is done is to loop it around rope 'handle'.This will shorten it but is easy to re-lengthen.
The way the bottles get stacked is determined by the sequence of use(in the cave scenerio sequence of use would involve dropping bottles off).This is why clear labling is important and we go through the step of following the hose back to confirm the right tank along with a visual from a team member.The stacking sequence is more of an ease of use issue and not considered a primary or secondary way of confirming contents.

Eric

[Diverbrian]

From where I sit, few folks in N FL use steel stages with the possible exception of those tiny steelies (20-30) for EAN100...

Re planning... is this the purpose for all the differing scenarios printed out from deco software??

Norm

I am told that the steel is still good for cave where it will get dropped off as Norm discusses. It will lie there real nicely until I get back.

It involves planning, planning, and yes... more planning.

That is the only steel stage that I have as well. As I said, twenty cubic feet or so would be fine for one or two dives, but the lack of refill ability in some locations means that I don't want to have refill my stage bottles there for multiple dives. Whitefish Point and Isle Royale in the Upper Peninsula have some some world class wreck diving, but no oxygen availability unless you bring it in. So, you maximize the O2 and Helium that you can bring up in these locations to avoid diving straight air.

And as for computer software and planning, I hand copy schedules off my VR3. It's tedious, but that way the schedules will agree (approximately) with my dive computer. I can hand calculate gas management numbers.

I was using my laptop for the gas management calculations, but got the bad news that my 1 1/2 old Dell laptop fried a motherboard and it will cost more than the computer is worth to replace it. I did not have a new laptop in the budget this year, so all have to say on that is "Dude.... don't buy a Dell laptop!" I will be without my laptop until I can replace it next year and I am not setting up my desktop in a hotel room everytime that I go diving, LOL.

So that option will have to work.

As well, I am using the larger bolt snaps on my stage bottles. Any kind of thick gloves make this necessary. I don't tend to hand them off as much of my actual diving of this type is solo. Once I got done with my Normoxic training, the instructor went to working with one the state's best known shipwreck hunters and I was his only student. He passed one other gentleman before me, but he teaches OW more than dives tech anymore.

As a result, I am often the only one in the groups that I have been diving with to use mixes of EAN50 or above to do my deco much less go to pure O2 at 20 ft. to do my deco. I am also the only diver on the boat using helium in my mix. This generally means "every man for himself" and some leapfrogging on the ascent line. In the times where this is not the case, I am more than capable of doing whatever I want with stage bottles as my normoxic instructor pushed that concept in my training. He is an active cave-diver and really promotes skills with stage bottles. One of our favorite (and practical tricks) was to finish our deco and hang the bottles on an equipment line at about ten feet in the water column. Then we can climb the boat unencumbered with gear and pull up our individual equipment lines before the boat leaves .

[intotheblue]

Does your Pal AL have a jacket?

http://www.diveritee...gas/wraps.shtml



Norm

No no no no no -- my Pal's don't wear jackets --- they are too dedicated for that kind of nonsence.

Here are a couple of my Pals

You have a nice lookin' pair....

(get your minds back on SCUBA folks... I'm talking about the cylinders!!!)

I rig mine similarly, but don't have as "purty" a line on mine as you have.

[intotheblue]

Great Explanations!

Even though I'm currently only carrying one pony at a time, I think I'll start adding the follow the hose to the 1st stage step to my protocol NOW!

Norm

A good practice/habit to get into now... second nature later! It is good to see something evaluated correctly so quickly and adopted instantly.

[intotheblue]

Great Explanations!

Even though I'm currently only carrying one pony at a time, I think I'll start adding the follow the hose to the 1st stage step to my protocol NOW!

Norm

We also insert the 2nd in mouth and after clearing reg, turn off the valve on the properly marked tank. If the gas doesn't stop flowing, we have the incorrect regulator and need to correct the switch. With all the other checks, this might seem unnecessary, but it is one last fail safe measure that is done in an instant to prevent a possibly fatal mistake. When the gas stops flowing instantly, turn it back on and resume your dive. Buddies observe each other do this procedure as well.

Incidentally, it is a good idea to double check/analyze your gas before the dive for a last minute check. A friend of mine didn't and died at 20' depth. Stupid mistake committed by an otherwise very competent diver that would have been prevented if he'd done any of several checks. Analyzing the gas would have been the appropriate one at the site, assuming the tank was properly labeled and filled according to the label... and the actual label was READ. Complacency...

[6Gill]

Well the short version of multi deco bottles for me is as follows
1)signal begining gas switch
2)looking down at tank check lable
3)place hand on 2nd and have team member confirm your holding the correct 2nd
4)remove 2nd stage from bands and route over back of neck(right hand on 2nd while left hand follows back to 1st)
5)confirm left hand is on the tank you want it on then while observing the spg(tank is pre-charged and off) a quick breath will confirm you've got the 2nd matching the 1st.
6)If the spg needle drops then turn on tank
7)now next team members turn

We also insert the 2nd in mouth and after clearing reg, turn off the valve on the properly marked tank. If the gas doesn't stop flowing, we have the incorrect regulator and need to correct the switch. With all the other checks, this might seem unnecessary, but it is one last fail safe measure that is done in an instant to prevent a possibly fatal mistake. When the gas stops flowing instantly, turn it back on and resume your dive. Buddies observe each other do this procedure as well.

Incidentally, it is a good idea to double check/analyze your gas before the dive for a last minute check. A friend of mine didn't and died at 20' depth. Stupid mistake committed by an otherwise very competent diver that would have been prevented if he'd done any of several checks. Analyzing the gas would have been the appropriate one at the site, assuming the tank was properly labeled and filled according to the label... and the actual label was READ. Complacency...

ITB,
That is step 5&6 for us,by leaving the stage off(but charged) there are only so many breaths you can take before the hose empties itself.The first breath gets the needle droping but for what ever reason your brain doesn't engage right away it will when there is no gas coming along with limiting the amount of wrong gas you end up inhaling.

Sorry to hear about your friend...
Most of what we learn comes at the expense of someone's life so we try and make the safe way the easy way along with building in checks.
By setting up your O2 analyzer to plug into your lp hose it makes it very easy to check your mix on dive day when your gear is set up and ready to dive.Ideally you want to use a different analyzer then was used to check the initial mix(sensors go,batteries get weak) as a secondary check.

Eric

[intotheblue]

Well the short version of multi deco bottles for me is as follows
1)signal begining gas switch
2)looking down at tank check lable
3)place hand on 2nd and have team member confirm your holding the correct 2nd
4)remove 2nd stage from bands and route over back of neck(right hand on 2nd while left hand follows back to 1st)
5)confirm left hand is on the tank you want it on then while observing the spg(tank is pre-charged and off) a quick breath will confirm you've got the 2nd matching the 1st.
6)If the spg needle drops then turn on tank
7)now next team members turn

We also insert the 2nd in mouth and after clearing reg, turn off the valve on the properly marked tank. If the gas doesn't stop flowing, we have the incorrect regulator and need to correct the switch. With all the other checks, this might seem unnecessary, but it is one last fail safe measure that is done in an instant to prevent a possibly fatal mistake. When the gas stops flowing instantly, turn it back on and resume your dive. Buddies observe each other do this procedure as well.

Incidentally, it is a good idea to double check/analyze your gas before the dive for a last minute check. A friend of mine didn't and died at 20' depth. Stupid mistake committed by an otherwise very competent diver that would have been prevented if he'd done any of several checks. Analyzing the gas would have been the appropriate one at the site, assuming the tank was properly labeled and filled according to the label... and the actual label was READ. Complacency...

ITB,
That is step 5&6 for us,by leaving the stage off(but charged) there are only so many breaths you can take before the hose empties itself.The first breath gets the needle droping but for what ever reason your brain doesn't engage right away it will when there is no gas coming along with limiting the amount of wrong gas you end up inhaling.

Sorry to hear about your friend...
Most of what we learn comes at the expense of someone's life so we try and make the safe way the easy way along with building in checks.
By setting up your O2 analyzer to plug into your lp hose it makes it very easy to check your mix on dive day when your gear is set up and ready to dive.Ideally you want to use a different analyzer then was used to check the initial mix(sensors go,batteries get weak) as a secondary check.

Eric

Hey, you are right.... Guess in my old age I scan posts a little to quickly... and often I can't stay awake long enought to catch up on an entire thread! Sorry 'bout that!

[6Gill]

Hey, you are right.... Guess in my old age I scan posts a little to quickly... and often I can't stay awake long enought to catch up on an entire thread! Sorry 'bout that!

No worries,I wasn't sure if yours was a variation of what we do or mine a variation of what you do....

Eric