47 replies to this topic

[Laura]

C'nuck,

Thanks for explaining. I agree with you about using it as a back-up only, and not relying on it as a primary air source. That defeats the whole purpose.

Thanks for the clarification

Laura

[Walter]

Adam,

That wasn't a rant. It was a well thought out response, politely given. Post like that any time. It's an excellent contribution.

Walter

[canuckdiver]

LOL, thanks guys.

[DandyDon]

Perhaps I hand't realize it, but I guess that some divers do try to include their Ponys as extra dive plan air. This is a No-No, I think. It's supposed to be a redundant air supply for unforseen problems only.

Now as far as slinging it on my side so I can pass it off to another diver, that could be a good idea, but I don't. I wear a pony on my back kinda' like DrBill wears his, with a 2# or 3# weight in my opposite back pocket to balance it. The dealer who sold it to me wears his on his back, without offsetting weight, but he uses a Wing BC, so that could be different.

But the hard point for me is - it's there for my personal needs, including helping others albeit with tools under my control, not so I can hand it off. Again, this is an idea that could work well on a team, but with my experiences of diving with strangers, I want to stay in control of my Pony.

I can see it now: I hand off a $300+ Pony system to a diver, he drops it on the Safety Stop, it sinks into the abyss, and on the boat he says: "Sorry about your bottle, bud; guess you shouldn't haven't given it to me. It wasn't my request, though, so your loss, (sucker)." Or, "Thanks for the help; sorry I dropped it; I'll mail you some money when I can afford it." Sure he will. Got Ocean front property for sale, too, New Mexico, Colordo, Utah, your pick.

So, color me selfish, but I'm going to carry that extra weight and responsibility in my luggage, then that extra weight and cost on my back into and out if the water, to ensure that I have more air than I expect to need. If a buddy, or anyone else, needs more - they are certainly welcome to what I have in my main tank. I may switch to my Pony supply then, as we start our ascent.

I do still have one thing to change. I want to hang mine upside down so I can easily turn it on or off. DrBill carries his upside down turned off - ready to turn on, while I'll still carry mine turned off, but just in case I screw up there, too, I want all the options I can get.

BTW, my currnet routing for safety checks of equipemtn includes:

(1) Daily: After both regs are set up on their respective tanks, but the tanks still turned off, I'll rinse any disinfectent off of all 3 second stages, put them in my mouth one by one, and test for breathing. None should allow any intake, of course; I'm checking for inleaks.

Thereafter, for new tank:

(2) I'll open the valves on both tanks, to ckeck psi, and I do have a spg on my console for my main tank, as well as a tiny spg on the first stage for my Pony.

(3) I then close both valves until predive checks. This test for outleaks anywhere on the system. I should still have 3,000# on each 10 min to 2 hours later.

(4) Before predive, I turn both on, take 2 deep breaths off of each of the second stages for my main tank & reg, and 4 from my Pony. This ensures that all are working well, and that I didn't skip the turn on step, as I know that neither of my Regs will pass 4 breaths unless on.

(5) On predive, I'll ask whoever is checking me to ensure I have both tanks fully open.

Finally, would I suggest a Pony for a diver with less than 100 dives logged. Probably not. Newbies have enough to learn, and it's probably good to stay a little more cautious, so you'll work with your buddy closely.

Thanks for making me think, Marvel.

Edited by Marvel, 07 June 2004 - 11:05 AM.

[maninthesea]

P.S. -

Does anyone know where I can get a good price on a NEW 6 cu ft cylinder SANS VALVE? I have plenty of them laying around...

From Oatmeal
P.S. -

Does anyone know where I can get a good price on a NEW 6 cu ft cylinder SANS VALVE? I have plenty of them laying around...

Oatmeal
I could sell you a catalina one for $64 I think shipping would be about $10
If that does not work then No Worries.
Cheers Jim

[drbill]

Just got my pony bottle back after servicing for the MAJOR air leak I discovered a few weeks ago. Fortunately it was just a rotten o-ring on the valve seat. However, I wonder why the o-ring would go rotten so quickly. They last "forever" on my other tanks.

Good to know I'm back to diving with an acceptable redundant air supply.

By the way, the reason I keep my pony reg turned off is the way I dive. Because I "muck around" on the bottom taking video, I often hit the purge on the reg mouthpiece and lose air. This way I won't lose air and can quickly turn the pony on if I need it (unless my left arm is bitten off by a great white, but I like the odds of that not happening!).

Dr. B.

[triggerfish]

hey!!! you could shove the pony into great white's mouth!!! just like in jaws!!! then somebody could shoot it to make it explode.

wait!!! jamie does explosives!!!! i bet his r&d guys could come up with the "singledivers' buddy bomb"!!!!!

Edited by triggerfish, 07 June 2004 - 07:43 PM.

[jextract]

Shhh! Ix-nay on the om-bay! Never know who's readin' this!

[Lubold8431]

I own a 30 cu ft pony bottle with a tiger gear pony bracket that never gets used. Instead, I dive with a competent buddy. If, however, I had to buy another pony, I would get a 19. It has enough gas to handle an ascent from 130 ft, even if you are panicing, and breathing rapidly, and a nice safety margin. The 6 or 13 is just too small, and I wouldnt be using those (IMNSHO). The 30 is too big and cumbersome, and is a pain to lug around, and hence hardly gets used. About the only time I use a pony anymore is when (and if) I am solo diving. Even then, most of the time, I would opt for a small set of doubles instead. So, again, my vote would be for the 19.

[triggerfish]

what's a tiger gear bracket?

[canuckdiver]

what's a tiger gear bracket?

a quick-release bracket that goes on the side of your main tank.

[triggerfish]

ah.

thanks.

[Sharktooth]

Hi Don,
I apologize for the sloppy first post; I'd just got off work & my mind was still numb. Any way we talked about your topic where I dive at. Three out of four of us use 13s the other a 19. Most of our deep dives are between 90 & 107 feet and we know the water & what is on the bottom. The fourth guy gets to go to Florida once a week on his job (lucky dog) and can dive to 130. He uses the 19 "that's my comfort level" to quote him. I did have to use mine once at 100' I was able to do a normal ascent, did my 3 and surfaced. So I'm comfortable with it for that site. If I was going deeper and at an unknown site I'd opt for the 19 due to depth and getting hung up. The conclusion was get one that you are comfortable with under the conditions you dive in most. SCR & PSI used @ depth considered. Of course My cave buds said you guys and your pony's get rid of 'em and go to doubles. LOL Then they're diving those plus 2 more not counting the deco.
Peace

[CelticRaven]

Perhaps I hand't realize it, but I guess that some divers do try to include their Ponys as extra dive plan air. This is a No-No, I think. It's supposed to be a redundant air supply for unforseen problems only.

Don,
Pony bottles, if you are securing a redundant gas source are ok, however don't let them get you into a false sense of security. View them as a "Oh my god, this has gone to crap, my buddy is missing, I am out of air (which shouldn't happen if the dive is planned correctly) and it is an emergency escape.

People using them to extend bottom time when using air integrated computers easily end up bent. For example, the Suunto series of computers take into account an average air consumption rate and attempts to figure out if you are working hard or not. While it continues to track your NDL it doesn't track your air consumption any longer while you were on your pony fining against the current.

Now there are 2 different camps on what size. If you are staying in NDL and Rec dive limits, technically you can jet straight to the surface doing CESA and not end up bent. Not really the case for all divers but it is nice in theory. If you are using this as a my primary failed and I need to make an ascent from 100' and ensure my safety stops etc, a 6cf bottle isn't going to do much for you. I would choose a 30 CF or something close. If you are thinking of a 6cf which is the smallest I would even consider, (I don't even consider spare air an option for diving) I think of it as a My buddy is about 10 seconds past where I can make it to (Which again shouldn't happen) with the air in my lungs when all of a sudden my gear totally failed (shouldn't happen with proper maint.) or I ran out of air (which shouldn't happen cause we all watch our gauges).

Just some food for thought. Have I played with my 6cf pony and done an ascent with it from 30 feet? yeah No safety stop, the dive profile we had didn't require it, we were at 15 feet for most of the dive. A controlled 33 FPS or slower ascent I drew right around 1000 psi off the bottle. That isn't alot of air to have in an emergency.

Why? Lets look at the factors of what the human body does in an emergency... Your heart rate sky rockets & you breath faster and harder.

To sum up the best pony bottle is a good partner. To have a pony is not a horrid thing, just don't get overly secure because you have one.

Edit:
Oh yeah, I don't really look at my 6cf as a dive tool even though I have taken it diving. I actually got it for snorkleing and surface work when I am not decending.

Edited by CelticRaven, 11 June 2004 - 01:43 PM.

[fbp]

"Oh my god, this has gone to crap, my buddy is missing, I am out of air

Yeah, heheheh...

using a pony as a "continue the dive" source...
Man O'Man.. what are they thinking...

That's like using a CO2 fire extinguisher to cool down beer in a fireworks factory..
geezee....
or something like that...

Minds not working today..

just get get doubles... and then carry a pony too..