33 replies to this topic

[TraceMalin]

This is such an interesting topic in & of itself, it needed it's own thread- Marvel

Brian,

I'm glad you guys dive in a team of three. My apologies to the group if this is off topic of solo diving, but I wanted to illustrate the point about the type of training we (my team) do to unify ourselves regarding what we consider to be basic skills. If this warrants further discussion perhaps we can start a new thread? I'm not site savvy yet, so please forgive me. Brian, I also just got your PM and I'll message you later. GMTA bro!

Just some general information about what my dive buddy and I do on a typical Sunday regarding training.

A. Training Dive #1
I. Predive:
1) SADDDDD 2) Equipment Check 3) Bubble Check

II. Descent:
1) Divers A & B face one another and begin a face to face slow descent to 10 feet.
2) Divers stop at 10 feet for 1 minute for a trim and buoyancy check.
3) Divers begin a descent to 20 feet for 1 minute while Diver A is OOG (out of gas) for S-Drill #1.
Divers perform S-Drill while traveling to the 20 foot stop.
4) Divers begin descent to 30 feet while Diver B is OOG for S-drill #2.
5) Divers move to 40 feet for 1 minute and Diver A performs a valve drill while
traveling.
6) Diver B does a valve drill while traveling to 50 feet.

III. Bottom:
1) Divers take position 1 to 6 inches off the bottom for a trim check. Diver A goes OOG for S-drill #3 and then performs a valve drill.
2) Diver B is OOG for S-drill #4 and does a valve drill.
3) Divers check isolators and gear.
4) Divers swim using modified frog in a wing on wing formation.
5) Divers do helicopter turns and reverse kicks making sure not to disturb the bottom silt.
6) Diver A finds a tie off and deploys line while Diver B swims in front doing a reverse kick. Divers turn dive and Diver B reels line while Diver A swims in front in reverse.
7) Diver B returns A's reel and then Diver B runs line with his own reel. Diver A swims in position as designated by B for a standard line deployment.
8) Once reel is deployed, divers lose masks and run a touch contact drill along the line to the tie off. At the tie off, divers switch leader positions and run touch contact back to the reel. 9) Divers retrieve reel and take up line and head back to tie off. During the swim, divers simulate right post failures and left post roll offs. Divers check isolators once complete.
10) Divers reach tie off & deploy a lift bag. Divers begin a horizontal ascent.

IV. Ascent:
1) Divers move from 50 feet to 40 feet for 1 minute. Diver A is OOG for S-drill #5.
2) Divers ascend from 40 to 30 feet for 1 minute while Diver B is OOG for S-drill #6.
3) Divers ascend from 30 feet to 20 feet for 1 minute while Diver A does a valve drill.
4) Divers ascend from 20 feet to 10 feet for 1 minute while Diver B does avalve drill.
5) Divers lose masks and ascend from 10 feet to surface as slowly and in control as possible.

B. Training Dive #2: stage bottle

I. Predive:
1) SADDDDD 2) Equipment Check including abbreviated S-drill 3) Bubble Check

II. Descent:
1) Divers descend face to face slowly. Descent may be uneventful or each diver at random may throw in an OOG situation.

III. Bottom:
1) Divers enter overhead environment and practice running line, using lights, team communication, etc. Divers may simulate various problems, perform drills,etc.

IV. Ascent:
1)Trace's NEW Infamous Ascent Drill - Max Cluster Fun (To be performed in the morning on my unsuspecting buddy replacing previous drills and told to Ted in an IM which he gave permission to share.)

Trace Malin: Yeah
Trace Malin: But what he doesnt know
SCUBA9097: Uh-oh...
Trace Malin: Is that I have more monkey wrenches than a Sears hardware dept to throw into our dive at the end <evil grin>
SCUBA9097: LMAO
SCUBA9097: What are you going to do?
Trace Malin: Exit wreck of comet & just as he retrieves the reel & finishes off comes his mask, I'll then blow his right post causing a need to go to the backup reg, as soon as he isolates, his stage is going to erupt causing him to be worrying about that when I'll blow his left post causing us to do an S-drll...
SCUBA9097: LOL
Trace Malin: Then my left post will blow causing me to have to get off my backup & buddy breathe with him with my long hose
SCUBA9097: Surprise indeed!
Trace Malin: while I isolate
Trace Malin: Then we'll reach our deco depth at 20 where I'll blow his deco bottle & we'll need to buddy off mine
SCUBA9097: The dive from hell....
SCUBA9097: After all that, I'd give up diving...
Trace Malin: At which point I'll freeflow my regulator & we'll buddy breathe off a free flowing stage & both lose our masks & have to shoot a liftbag
SCUBA9097: Geeze....
Trace Malin: Then, we'll have to switch off his good second stage for my freeflowing one while not being able to see and while ascending <Very Sick Twisted Evil Grin>

For a more normal 3 man team training exercise try this:

Descend to 35 feet midwater in a triad formation just at the range of visibility of some object you can use to hold position and you will be "lost" in open water if you lose awareness of your relationship to the object.

Stay in perfect horizontal trim and within arm's reach of each team member at all times. Perform Basic 5 skills -- regulator clear, regulator exchange (clipping 7 ft primary to right shoulder D ring while switching to your back up), modified S-drill, mask clear and mask removal and replace. You have a 3 foot window on either side of 35 feet in which to rise/sink during drills. Hit 39 feet and you fail/hit 31 feet and you fail. Do helicopter turns. If any team member strikes another with fins go into an S-drill. If team members are too far apart (more than arm's length) to an S-drill.

Once that skill base is cut, do S-drills to make sure long hoses are deployable. Each diver donates to diver on his RIGHT. Why? Because if you donate the long hose to the diver on the left, the third team member's view of your mouth/backup regulator will be obstructed by your extended arm. Leaving both divers' mouths in view of the third buddy allows the third to immediately donate a reg to any OOG diver if something goes wrong. After this, perform valve drills but make sure you have a "lifeguard" in case you fail to turn on a post or can't reopen a valve.

Next, perform an asent/descent drill by ascending 1 min for each 10 feet -- 30 secs travel & 30 seconds hold on stop depth & try to get a perfect run time of 8 minutes 0 seconds 35 - 30 (1), 30 - 20 (1), 20 - 10 (1), 10 - surface (1) = 4 and back down + 4 = 8 min.

Are you still around your object? Good!

Then, have fun playing or doing more drills. Then, deploy a liftbag/SMB at 30 feet, go into an air share and ascend on a 3 min schedule.

GOOD TIMES!

Trace

Edited by Marvel, 07 November 2004 - 01:34 PM.

[Marvel]

And when you master all this you get to use the scooter, right?

Seriously, it sounds extremely challenging but, I suspect, a lot of fun at the same time. Still, not something the typical recreational diver would want to indulge in. Any other drills & skills out there that anyone would like to share?

[Diverbrian]

Good ideas! Of course, if we tried the "Sears monkey wrench drill", I would likely be tempted to do nasty things to perpetrator when we got done with the dive. LOL

I'll have to spring some of these on my dive buddies up here and see what they think. They sound like a good plan.

For recreational level, I would suggest at a minimum that air shares be practiced and lift bags be deployed for the wreck divers that use them. Also, valve drills (for divers in doubles or H-Valves) and practice for going to the pony bottle if you carry one is always a good idea.

[TraceMalin]

I need to qualify one aspect of the drills regarding the use of line before someone points it out. The reel man is always the first to enter and the last to leave an overhead environment. However, in these drills we have the diver without the reel swimming in reverse in front of the diver with the reel. This is simply for the benefit of setting up and retrieving line for the touch contact drill and making use of dive time in open water to practice the backwards/reverse frog kick. A dive team could modify our drill by running a standard team formation for running line. In a real life situation the team members without a reel should be behind the reel man during a penetration and in front of the reel man during the exit.

Our S-Drill is done as follows:

Diver A signals an OOG situation. Diver B deploys the long hose from the mouth making sure not to cover the second stage with the hand. That purge button needs to be kept free. Diver B queries Diver A if the situation is OK and if so deploys the remaining length of the long hose. Diver A then clips his/her own long hose to the right chest D-ring while breathing B's deployed long hose. While A does this, B unclips the SPG from the left hip D-ring, checks the pressure and shows the SPG to A for verification. The team then turns toward the exit and B holds A's arm and the divers swim toward the exit point. The "cut" signal is then given to end the drill. Diver A unclips the long hose and replaces his/her reg handing the deployed hose back to B for replacing around the light cannister. The divers then verify everything is OK.

S-Drills are done first to make sure the hoses deploy for the valve drill which we do as follows:

Diver A signals B -- YOU. WATCH. ME. OKAY?
Diver B replies OK.
Diver A tests necklace by purging it and then reaches back to turn off the right post breathing down the regulator and going for the backup necklaced reg. He/she clips the primary to the right D-ring and then turns the right post on and goes to the isolator closing then opening it. The primary is unclipped and purged to test it and then the left post is shut off and breathed down. The primary is replaced, the left post is turned on, the back up reg is tested and then the OK signal is given.

Trace

[WreckWench]

Wow! What a great topic! But one question...what does 'SADDDDD' stand for?

[Diverbrian]

Wow! What a great topic! But one question...what does 'SADDDDD' stand for?

Kamala,

If not for possible copyright issues, I would have posted just the part to cover your question. But it is a small web page.

This is a link that explains SADDDDD very well.

I guess that SGDDDDD would have looked too awkward. G for gas as the group that I took this link does not believe in using air (as in EAN21) to fill one's tires much less breathe underwater. They start at EAN32 and work from there according to planned depth.

[Walter]

Sorry to be a PITA, Brian, but air is not EAN 21. While air is "nitrox," it is not "enriched air nitrox."

[Diverbrian]

Sorry to be a PITA, Brian, but air is not EAN 21.  While air is "nitrox," it is not "enriched air nitrox."

As always you are correct. Sorry for the misconception there folks. I just knew that the next question was going be after viewing that page (from somebody), why don't they use air (or why is air considered the "misnomer" in the acronym). I was attempting to answer it before it was asked.

I know of many people that use the term "air" instead of "nitrox" or "gas" when diving enriched mixes when they know and have correctly figured the MOD's for the gas and planned bottom time as well. It is just as incorrect, but a forgiveable lapse when I hear someone say that "I have xxxx psi of air" when they know full well that they are diving an enriched mix.

[TraceMalin]

Brian posted a great link!

However it is obvious that GUE has just become another "PADI chaser" and has dropped its standards :dltears:

True DIR (insert angelic choral music here) would find the SADDDDD being a mnemonic for:

Sequence -- Who leads? #2? #3? What are the responsibilities of the team?
Air -- Turn pressure, rock bottom, duration -- max time, bailout time
Deco -- Minimum deco, planned deco, bailout deco
Distance -- How far are we penetrating or swimming from the boat or shore?
Depth -- Maximum planned depth, MOD, average depth, plan for multi level?
Direction -- Compass headings, pilotage references, routes to take?

and finally...

Diet -- What are we eating and drinking DURING the dive? Food tubes? Camelbacks? Support team resupplying? (Kamala, I could so use you!)

It's just incredibly "saddddd" (sorry, I couldn't resist) that JJ would allow such a reduction in quality!

Trace

[WreckWench]

Diet -- What are we eating and drinking DURING the dive? Food tubes? Camelbacks? Support team resupplying? (Kamala, I could so use you!)

Ok...I'm yours! What do you want???

[Walter]

Trace,

Some places such a statement could get you accused of PADI bashing. That's not what you did, but ..........

Are you sure GUE has lowered it's standards? That link took me to a TUE, not a GUE, website.

[TraceMalin]

Diet -- What are we eating and drinking DURING the dive? Food tubes? Camelbacks? Support team resupplying? (Kamala, I could so use you!)

Ok...I'm yours! What do you want???

Um... <roguishly evil grin> ... what can I get?

[TraceMalin]

Trace,

Some places such a statement could get you accused of PADI bashing. That's not what you did, but ..........

Are you sure GUE has lowered it's standards? That link took me to a TUE, not a GUE, website.

PADI bashing? Me?

Yeah, the TUE site is quoting right from "The Fundamentals of DIR" by GUE. Dive organizations that are totally dedicated to GUE standards and have enough clout to back it up such as GUE instructors within the organization often make use of "Underwater Explorers" as part of their name. You'll find organizations like San Diego Underwater Explorers and Torbay Underwater Explorers among others. You'll also find groups like the EKPP tying into DIR through the WKPP's example.

[Walter]

Keep in mind, the name "Underwater Explorers" does not automatically mean it is affiliated with GUE. We have an LDS called Underwater Explorers that's been here since '68. It predates GUE by a long time. I'll take your word that TUE is affiliated with GUE.

[TraceMalin]

Keep in mind, the name "Underwater Explorers" does not automatically mean it is affiliated with GUE. We have an LDS called Underwater Explorers that's been here since '68. It predates GUE by a long time. I'll take your word that TUE is affiliated with GUE.

Walter,

That's true. In fact, when I was trying to establish a company in Europe in the mid-90s like Mad Dog Expeditions here, I chose the name Global Underwater Expeditions before I had ever heard of Global Underwater Explorers. You can immediately tell if a group is GUE/DIR though. TUE is definitely one of these.

My problem is that I'm caught between remembering how "free" diving used to be for me and the exceptioal training I've received through Andrew Georgitsis, Michael H. Kane and Bob Sherwood that finds me also loving being part of the scuba "Borg."

As soon as I start thinking about a dive that's deep, involves penetration or is mission intensive, I just want GUE/DIR guys with me deep down. I think I'm resisting total assimilation which will be futile.

Trace