70 replies to this topic

[WreckWench]

Update as of today 07/20/06 nobody has answered my thread I started on SB about going inside the Bianca C! is it possible we may be the first ? I will contact auqanuts and see there take on the dive.

Bill aka OTWDiver will assist in ascertaining who can safely do the tech portion of the trip. You should contact him to assess your skills and/or answer any questions regarding the tech portion of the trip. You can also contact me and I will help you as well.

Please do not contact the shop. Their policy is that they do not enter the Bianca C. Any divers entering the Bianca C are doing so at their own risk, skill and training. Therefore it is imperative that you talk to us so that we can accurately determine if you should be on the wreck or reef package.

[VADiver]

For liability reasons we can not bring our own manifolds. We must dive independent doubles if diving doubles.

What liability reasons? Did the shop give you a reason or is it just a “…dive our way or don’t dive at all…” mentality. Manifolds are much safer and easier to deal with than independent doubles. DO you have a contact number/e-mail for the shop so I can get clarification before I commit to such a trip.

Also, what happens if you don’t get 7 ‘tech’ divers…is the Bianca option cancelled? Also, is it a guided tour with a dive master or can we dive the wrecks ourselves with a guardian? And what would be a typical dive profile for the Bianca and how many dives per day are we allowed. Thanks.

[Searanger]

Once again the waters are muddied by mixing the technical and recreational divers. Was nothing learned on the NC trip in July? Everyone has different expectations…..Including the dive operator. So is this trip for recreational or technical divers? If the technical guys want to arrange a separate charter in conjunction with this trip then it shouldn’t have to involve everyone else. As a matter of fact it turns some people off.

We really are two very different groups when it comes to diving…..for me not a great mix.

[OTWdiver]

A lot was learned on the NC trip. We have made arrangements for two boats to take out our group, numbers permitting. If there are two boats there are opportunities for divers to be either sport or tech divers. I personally will be dividing my time between the two. I don’t want to spend my entire trip in deco. I will enjoy the other wrecks and reefs. Remember the conditions can change on the Bianca C and we will have to make other dives. It is appealing to both aspects but we must have numbers to make it work. I am on for this trip but I have had a few of my group that had to retract their commitment as the plans came together. We are looking at the possibility it will have to become either all tech or Recreational trip, but most likely all recreational as we need 8 tech divers minimum. We can have any number of recreational divers, only the technical divers require minimums. If you are interested in joining the trip your vote or signup is needed

[WreckWench]

Once again the waters are muddied by mixing the technical and recreational divers. Was nothing learned on the NC trip in July? Everyone has different expectations…..Including the dive operator. So is this trip for recreational or technical divers? If the technical guys want to arrange a separate charter in conjunction with this trip then it shouldn’t have to involve everyone else. As a matter of fact it turns some people off.

We really are two very different groups when it comes to diving…..for me not a great mix.

Good point...thank you for asking. I'll make sure I clarify the original post so that everyone realizes that this is basically 2 charters in one a tech charter and a recreational charter on separate boats. As for NC, please allow me to clarify several things that Bill also tried to clarify. "Mixing" tech and rec divers is not all bad nor is it impossible IF both parties clearly understand the rules and expectations. For example, if you are a technical diver looking to do a more technical profile i.e. a full 60 min run time (meaning time you jump to time you climb the ladder again) then you will need to be one of the first divers to jump in the water. If recreational divers jump before you then it is now impossible to have a tech profile unless all the divers on the boat regardless of tank configuration will be doing an hour or more in the water.

And as you know from other trips...it is not uncommon for recreational divers to spend a full 60 minutes in the water just on a single tank...so often times a 'tech profile' is merely adding extra redunancy to that recreational profile or gas to allow them to stay deeper longer or enabling divers who can't do an hour on a single tank to reach that total dive time.

Also technical divers must know that they are limited to the same boat space as the recreational divers, (UNLESS they have paid extra for extra space), they are limited to the same number of tanks and extra tanks including pony bottles need to be stored under their boat bench in the same 2 ft of space that everyone is alloted. When you have 1 or 2 technical divers on a boat you hardly notice them. When you have 6 or more well its about 2-3 too many. What we learned from NC was that you need VERY clear guidelines for both the recreational and the technical divers. And you must limit the number on the boat so that the recreational divers barely notice that they are there...more like stealth tech divers which is what we've always done in the past until this past trip. And even still, it would have been ok had the boat capt not gotten bent the week before. As a result he was far more conservative in the dive profiles which only the technical divers were really impacted by. Some of the recreational divers didn't even realize that they had bottom and total run time limitations as all their dives were well within the timeframes allowed.

Technical divers do best on boats that they charter entirely for themselves or on larger boats that have lots of divers on them. If the tech diver enters the water as soon as the boat anchors up, the rest of the divers are only just starting to get ready. By the time they get ready and the last one jumps easily 30+ minutes have gone by. If the recreational divers do a 30 minute dive or even a 40 minute dive then the tech diver now has his 30-40 minute dive time plus the 30+ minutes of diver prep time giving him/her easily a total run time of 60 minutes. Everyone dives their profile, the recreational divers are not inconvenienced by the technical divers (heck they hardly know that they are there) and the technical divers are happy too as they get a full hour run time.

The problems only arise when these parameters are not followed or when as in the case of NC, the boat captain injected an artifical time parameter on all the divers which some adapted to and some like myself did not.

I hope this clarifies your question about mixing recreational and technical divers as well as answer your question about how the Grenada trip will be run. Any chance you will be joining us? The diving will be awesome! Thank you, Kamala

[Searanger]

Wow, what a S.D. I am. (No pun intended) Thanks for your reply’s. Had an experience recently in Brockville where the boat was a mixture of technical and recreational divers. Just so happens my brother who is a real tech guy was my dive buddy. Hard to compete with those double tanks for bottom time. Found the boat crowded (more with equipment) and super long surface intervals. (Got to stop jumping in first all the time!) You addressed my concerns…..thanks…Might be joining you if my Phuket trip in October doesn’t get finalised in the next couple of weeks.

[OTWdiver]

We will be a great mix after the dives and we all get together for the after dive events. There is a lot of fun on these SD gatherings from my experience.
Regardless of this WIMP diver's (What I Mean by Pleasure) profile.
The fact we all share a common love for the water gives us common ground.

[OTWdiver]

JocasseeGirl found a copy of the Bianca 'C' deck plans I am posting. sweetheart, what a researcher. click here for the plans

[cmt489]

I really wish I could do this trip again but, alas, it is not to be. I KNOW you guys will have a great time as this was such a fun trip last year!

[WreckWench]

Wow, what a S.D. I am. (No pun intended) Thanks for your reply’s. Had an experience recently in Brockville where the boat was a mixture of technical and recreational divers. Just so happens my brother who is a real tech guy was my dive buddy. Hard to compete with those double tanks for bottom time. Found the boat crowded (more with equipment) and super long surface intervals. (Got to stop jumping in first all the time!) You addressed my concerns…..thanks…Might be joining you if my Phuket trip in October doesn’t get finalised in the next couple of weeks.

No worries...as they say...everything has two perspectives...yours and mine.

But seriously, you'd be most welcome on the trip so while I know you'd love to dive Phuket...Grenada would be an awesome second choice!!!

And as a note...the recreational divers can all do a survey dive of the Bianca C if they wish...it is fantastic and can easily be done on a single tank. The difference is that the tech divers want to hang out on her for most of their dives. And the recreational dives can dive on a number of other really great wrecks in the area as they are fantastic natural reefs now!

[ev780]

There seems to be a conflict on how many days of diving. Under "SPECS" it says 5 days but under "* INCLUDED in 7nite/5 day LAND ONLY package:" it says 4 days. So 5 days or 4?

Edited by ev780, 25 July 2006 - 08:28 PM.

[WreckWench]

For liability reasons we can not bring our own manifolds. We must dive independent doubles if diving doubles.

What liability reasons? Did the shop give you a reason or is it just a “…dive our way or don’t dive at all…” mentality. Manifolds are much safer and easier to deal with than independent doubles. DO you have a contact number/e-mail for the shop so I can get clarification before I commit to such a trip.

Also, what happens if you don’t get 7 ‘tech’ divers…is the Bianca option cancelled? Also, is it a guided tour with a dive master or can we dive the wrecks ourselves with a guardian? And what would be a typical dive profile for the Bianca and how many dives per day are we allowed. Thanks.

The shop did indeed say that they will not remove their tank valves and replace them with a diver supplied valve. That was the liability issue that they were referring too.

I will procure a contact for you to discuss further but I have exhausted the discussions with Bill's help and we have the best option that we can obtain...up to 40% mix for stage bottles (50 and 60cf) with independent doubles if the diver has travel bands. You'll dive 2 dives on the Bianca C daily with I believe a 4 hour SI which I will check on again. We will have a DM go with us but he/she will not do the same profiles that we will be diving. We can dive whatever profiles that our gas, ability and training will allow based upon a max depth of 165 to the sand and top deck being 130.

I will also see what happens if we end up with say only 5 tech divers. The pricing given said I must have 7 to do the tech option. We have a number of divers interested so I feel confident we'll get the 7 divers and so far almost everyone who has signed up is doing the tech option.

Even the recreational divers can dive the Bianca C at least once as part of their package. However to dive it as some of us want to do...once is not enough!!!

Come join us Vinny...you'll love it!

[OTWdiver]

We have to be happy with the yoke valves, independent doubles. Our max Nitrox mix still stands at 40%. Don't give up hope, I haven't. This trip needs a little help if anyone can add it to their mailing list of dive buddies. I sure hope we can find a few more friends to close out at least one boat for the tech .

[Desert_Diver]

I'm still interested in this one, but it looks like I'm the only 'rec' person that's stuck their head in!

Push come to shove, I wouldn't mind being on the tech boat if there isn't enough to fill it out. I just can't honestly run the tech profile, so I'd need a partner that doesn't mind if I pull out early. I was doing dry-runs on deco stops in NC, but I'm not carded for it yet. Hey, nobody says you can't do extra 'safety stops' on the way up, and there's no discount for bringing a tank back with 1000psi in it.

5 more days before I know for sure whether the funds are in the bank...

[OTWdiver]

You were doing very well in NC on your dives. You have what it takes but without the certification the DM on the boat will not let you do the same profiles. Regardless of anyone's certifications on this trip there is no guarantee we are going into any of the advanced parts of the wreck. It will be up to the Dm to decide who he is comfortable with.
I hope we are able to replace some of the Recreational divers I lost from my group. I started this trip plan because I had 10 divers wanting to go. I have since lost 6 of those ten. I am embarrassed that I asked the Wench to help out and then take over and make this a SD trip. The numbers on the board don’t reflect the reason she agreed to post it as a SD trip. I have been talking it up, all that I can, locally to replace my lost divers. This is not fare to the Wench or here reputation. I can only hope she can work her magic.