44 replies to this topic

[jextract]

Hey all, I'm considering buying a cannister light and by coincidence have gotten an email (some of you probably got the same one) from Tech Diving Limited. They're offering a couple of options, both made by Green Force, and I'm wondering if you have any experience with the brand or with either technology.

Option 1:
10 Watt 6200K HID Head
240 Min Burn Time
2000 hr lamp life

Option 2:
105Watt 5800K LED Head
180 Min Burn Time
8000 hr lamp life

What are some of the differences (e.g. color, brightness, etc.)? Which do you prefer and why? Thanks in advance!

[PerroneFord]

I have used this light, with both heads. I use a Greenforce light on most of my dives where I carry a primary.

First a word on LED vs HID

Honestly, LED looks very bright if you are not used to working with HID. It gives excellent burn time, and decent light color and quality. LEDs probably won't burn out in your lifetime. HID offers better light quality and more penetration into darkness. It's more fragile. It's the technology of choice.

And a word on Greenforce

It's a good light. It's not a great light. From a reliability perspective, it's nearly bulletproof. They work. They are hard to break. On the bad side, the light heads provide too wide of a beam to be useful in murk, and they make it hard to signal over distance, even in clear water. The handle options are all poor in my opinion and I've used all 3. The cost for the lights is out of all proportion for what you are getting. There are far better quality lights available for less money.

I have been in the water with Dive Rites, Salvos, Halcyons, GreenForce, and Sarteks. I would own the Greenforce over the Dive Rite if price was not factored in. With price factored the Dive Rite is a clear winner. I'd own any of the other lights irrespective of price, over the Greenforce.

I would not own an LED primary light at this point. They are just not as good as HID. Period.

Backup lights, especially the 3C cell lights from Gulftex and Heser, are a different story. That is a GREAT application for LED.

There are some good deals available on HID canister lights. If you've got money to spend, I'll point you in the right direction. If you're just window shopping for now, I'll let you finish that process.

-P

[seafox]

I'll echo PerroneFord.
I prefer the HID technology, as I find it hotter (whiter) and more penetrating than LED.
I found the LED much more yellow in color.
The HID bulb is more fragile and more expensive to replace.
At the end of the day it's really a matter of preference and "cost" tolerance.
You need to actually compare both, so use two lights, not just two heads on the same cannister.
I suggest that you get into a dark room, turn both on and pick the one you prefer!

Cornel

[ScubaDadMiami]

I also would go with HID as a primary for the reasons stated above.

[PerroneFord]

At the risk of seeming contrary, I am going to disagree here. I did this A/B test at home with the greenforce HID/LED and the Dive Rite MR11 head. All looked pretty nice. In my first overhead dive, I could tell the LED just wasn't getting it done.

When I got in the cave for the first time, the Dive Rite's narrow beam was EASILY superior to the Greenforce for signaling and penetrating distance. Both pale in comparison to the Halcyon, Salvo, and Sarteks.

-P

I suggest that you get into a dark room, turn both on and pick the one you prefer!

Cornel

[Diverbrian]

I use the DiveRite 10W HID and I love it except that it is FRAGILE. I hate that quality when I invest that kind of money in a piece of equipment. I do need a new reflector for mine, but it has set a record. This is the first year that it hasn't had to go back to Florida for a cable replacement.

Still, it is a nice light. I was impressed with the apparent durability of the Greenforce lights, but I was not aware of issues with cutting through the murk like my DiveRite does.

[JimG]

Here's another vote for HID. I have an old EE Pro 14 that I had refitted with an 18W HID head, and there is just no comparison. In general, the higher temperature bulbs make a huge difference - much whiter and more penetrating. A narrowly focused beam is also much better, especially for signaling. This is one area where LEDs just don't do as well - they tend to provide a much more diffused light.

I have no direct experience with the GreenForce lights, but I'm also a little concerned about the umbilical. From the description it doesn't look like the length of it is adjustable. I have my light cord adjusted so that when I am horizontal, it stretches from the top of the canister (which is on my right hip) to my outstretched left hand - no extra slack. If the GreenForce umbilical doesn't allow for any adjustment, then that would be a serious negative in my opinion.

[PerroneFord]

A few items of note:

The Greenforce 10w HID has a beam spread of ~13 degrees. The 21w head spread is closer to 20 degrees. There is no 18w option.

The Greenforce umbilical is NOT length adjustable.

The Dive Rite 4.5a 10w canister is available for $499.
The Salvo 4.5a 10w canister is available for $580 ($700 msrp).
The Greenforce is the most expensive option I've seen at 10w/4.5a

Just my observations.

[VADiver]

I'll jump on the HID band wagon...it's a great light for all aplications.

I think EE has some on sale too.

[jextract]

You guys are awesome, thanks.

[seafox]

We're all individuals and therefore have different points of view!
When backed up by trials and experiences they make sense and should be listened to and considered.
Although LED technology has improved substantially and grown in popularity,
I do favor the HID as a primary.
Thanks for sharing your field experience.

Cornel

At the risk of seeming contrary, I am going to disagree here. I did this A/B test at home with the greenforce HID/LED and the Dive Rite MR11 head. All looked pretty nice. In my first overhead dive, I could tell the LED just wasn't getting it done.

When I got in the cave for the first time, the Dive Rite's narrow beam was EASILY superior to the Greenforce for signaling and penetrating distance. Both pale in comparison to the Halcyon, Salvo, and Sarteks.

-P

I suggest that you get into a dark room, turn both on and pick the one you prefer!

Cornel

[Bubble2Bubble]

Another HID Fan Here...............

Besides having a small LED backup light all my other dive lights have now been retired to household duty and camping lights.

B2B

[texasdiverdude]

I have two HID Dive Rite Slim Lines with the fixed head MR 11. The adjustable H10 version I found too fragile and I never used the ajdustment feature. The MR 11 has a 6 degree beam and is just what you need for wreck or cave diving. A 13 or 20 degree beam is way too much. The battery lasts four hours and ithe light remains bright throughout. I've never used a LED in the water, but I could tell from demos that the beam was too wide to be of any value even though you could bang it on concrete. Also, there were 3 LEDs in the light head and the focal point was not clear. I think in time the LED may become the indestructible light technology of choice, but in the meantime get an HID or two and watch where you're swinging the light head.

[Cold_H2O]

I own a LED thought it was a great purchace
Then I dove with my buddies who have HID lights.
My LED was a poor light compared to theirs.

I think another thing to consider is WHERE you are diving and planning on using this light.

I know in the PNW "more" light is almost always prefered.

[Brinybay]

Well, it's not really a fair comparison because they are very different lights.

I loved my Light Cannon while it lasted. But frankly, I disliked the expensive and fragile bulb. HID's are definitely brighter, whiter, more focused, but I can't deal with the lack of what I call the "klutz factor" and the costs involved. If the bulbs were only $20 a pop, I could probably deal with that, but not $100! Mine broke the first time with just normal usage (well, what I was used to as normal usage). Ok, I'll replace it once, I told myself. I handled it with TLC after that and even got a little padded case for it. But when it broke again from an 18" drop to a carpeted floor just a short time later, I laid it to rest. For the price of a bulb, I went with the Shockwave II LED and am fairly content with it, particularly the high "klutz factor". I believe LED technology will eventually be par with HID. There was an article in Science News about a month or two ago that they've already developed an LED that is 7 times brighter than the ones on the market today. But it's not there yet.

If available funds are high, your "klutz factor" is low, then go with an HID (if you're considering Green Force, then I assume you have a healthy budget). If you dive mostly in 70ft+ vis waters, HID is an overkill.